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Should we allow cartoons insulting black people ? Jews too ? watch

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    (Original post by Gjaykay)
    There isn't a cure for being "an oversensitive jackass". Shooting a building full of people over a cartoon makes that person a vile piece of ****. Don't dare argue that the cartoonists were in anyway at fault. Lives have been lost because people literally couldn't take a joke.
    I agree.
    But I do think that the cartoonists were involved, that is a fact. They chose to draw Muhammad. I regret and I mean this, I regret what has happened.

    But these are consequences for actions just like everything else.

    I am not saying what has happened is deserved or good in anyway.

    I just think this is something that could be avoided and lessons should be learnt.

    Idealism in our world will not exist sadly. There will always be sad consequences which we will struggle against.

    The answer is not to act brave or patriotic. It is about being smart and trying work your way around problems to find solutions.
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    (Original post by Ahwab)
    You hold a very similar viewpoint to mine.
    But for some people religion is an integral part of their life and it shapes them. For Islam, what the cartoonists did is very serious from their viewpoint.

    For the minority, it unjustifiably warranted murder.
    For some and myself included, the cartoons were very offensive and did nothing more than build resentment and hatred.

    Hatred is a breeding ground for war and violence.
    Fair enough. But if you chose to follow a religion, you really should expect heavy criticism of it. It's not a personal attack on you directly. It's an attack on an ideology which you have chosen to follow.

    But so what if you were offended? We cannot censor everything just so some people don't get offended. It's not our responsibility to protect some people from being triggered. It's not our responsibility to wrap people up in cotton wool to protect them from words which might offend them.

    I don't follow a religion because I enjoy life without one. I like living by my own accord and not a list of rules someone else has wrote thousands of years ago. I'm not an atheist but I don't think we can afford to live a restricted life in case we offend a God we haven't even have proof of existence. But, that's not to say I don't have beliefs I hold strongly. It's not to say that I have been through some very, very dark times in my life and people in the media, some I call role models, have triggered that and forced me to revisit those dark times which threw me off track for a while. I've recently come out of something dark, and I am quite sensitive over a few things that are constantly debated in the media, see it all the time on TV and in movies and even out in public. But, so what if I'm offended? People have every right to discuss and criticise things publicly if they so wish. I could sit here and wallow in my own sadness, get angry and throw out some hateful comments, or I can realise it isn't everyones responsibility to walk on eggshells around me just in case I get offended.

    Mate, life is way too short to take things like this seriously.
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    (Original post by Ahava)
    Fair enough. But if you chose to follow a religion, you really should expect heavy criticism of it. It's not a personal attack on you directly. It's an attack on an ideology which you have chosen to follow.

    But so what if you were offended? We cannot censor everything just so some people don't get offended. It's not our responsibility to protect some people from being triggered. It's not our responsibility to wrap people up in cotton wool to protect them from words which might offend them.

    I don't follow a religion because I enjoy life without one. I like living by my own accord and not a list of rules someone else has wrote thousands of years ago. I'm not an atheist but I don't think we can afford to live a restricted life in case we offend a God we haven't even have proof of existence. But, that's not to say I don't have beliefs I hold strongly. It's not to say that I have been through some very, very dark times in my life and people in the media, some I call role models, have triggered that and forced me to revisit those dark times which threw me off track for a while. I've recently come out of something dark, and I am quite sensitive over a few things that are constantly debated in the media, see it all the time on TV and in movies and even out in public. But, so what if I'm offended? People have every right to discuss and criticise things publicly if they so wish. I could sit here and wallow in my own sadness, get angry and throw out some hateful comments, or I can realise it isn't everyones responsibility to walk on eggshells around me just in case I get offended.

    Mate, life is way too short to take things like this seriously.
    But this is what I believe too!!
    I know we we can't bubble wrap everything. Idealism is stupid, and this is a student forum, so we see too much of it.

    I take a realistic approach to life. I am neither for or against what has happened.

    I simply believe every action has a consequences. And it falls to the parties involved how to deal with those.

    But my thoughts are for those who lost their lives today by irrationally based murder.

    I just think ppl need to be more sensible and street smart rather than rash, overemotional and idealistic
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    (Original post by Chlorophile)
    I don't really agree with what South Park is doing, but the problem here is the reception. South Park is a joke and people regard it as being one. It might not be a very tasteful joke, but I don't think people actually take the message of South Park seriously. In contrast, in light of the recent events, we've seen a major backlash against Muslims all over Europe (and probably the world). If you went on reddit on the day it happened, the front page was awash with the most ridiculously obscene images against Islam. That's not making a joke, that's an outright attack on the religion. The problem here is that whenever a Muslim does something bad, people attack the faith as a whole rather than attacking the individual, which is what would happen if anyone else committed a terrible crime.
    I agree about Reddit, but actually behind all the toilet humour, there is a very serious message to South Park, regarding a variety of topics.
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    (Original post by Ahwab)
    But this is what I believe too!!
    I know we we can't bubble wrap everything. Idealism is stupid, and this is a student forum, so we see too much of it.

    I take a realistic approach to life. I am neither for or against what has happened.

    I simply believe every action has a consequences. And it falls to the parties involved how to deal with those.

    But my thoughts are for those who lost their lives today by irrationally based murder.

    I just think ppl need to be more sensible and street smart rather than rash, overemotional and idealistic
    Exactly. We can't always control things that happen in our lives, but we can certainly control our reactions and after (not initial) emotions to it. Hopefully, most of the time, most people have rational reactions.
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    It depends what you mean by insult. Of course feel free to mock Jews and blacks. Then feel free to have your moronic beliefs ridiculed and be ostracised from mainstream society. Freedom of speech woo!

    It might be okay to mock anyone and anything, but it is not okay to incite hatred or violence.
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    (Original post by Guybrush Sheepgood)
    It depends what you mean by insult. Of course feel free to mock Jews and blacks. Then feel free to have your moronic beliefs ridiculed and be ostracised from mainstream society. Freedom of speech woo!

    It might be okay to mock anyone and anything, but it is not okay to incite hatred or violence.
    Mocking people incites violence
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    (Original post by Ahwab)
    Mocking people incites violence
    I suppose you're right. I've never really thought about it to be honest.

    Then I change my answer to "no".
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    (Original post by Nathanielle)
    To both of you:The question is why should Religion be the most important thing? You can make fun of David Cameron, can't you? Or would you say, everyone making fun of David Cameron is attacking British culture?
    You should really look a bit more into details (also the French culture and French journalism) to be able to call something hate speech and compare it with making jokes about the Holocaust. There is a big difference between caricatures (and no, France is laicistic, not theocratic!) and hate speech. And no one says, you have to like it, but they made caricatures about every religion!



    Ahem, they actually did.
    I don't think you understand the value religion has in the lives of many religious people. The fact that you are comparing it to making fun of David Cameron says it all. You seem to think Islam is culture to them, to the same extent that Cameron is culture to us.

    I'm not even religious, but I can understand the importance of religion in others lives, but some atheists refuse to see it. Or because they disagree with it, they just brush it off. It's just intolerance.


    Of course the terrorists were wrong. What they did was absolutely despicable. But it does not represent the actions and desires of most Muslims.
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    Does anyone think that the female terrorist is quite hot.
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    (Original post by cassburke)
    I complete agree. What happened was out of order. Why should freedom of speech be taken away for a bunch of terrorists? I'm sorry, but they need to learn that slaughtering innocents will certainly not get them their own way. There have been plenty of times other religious groups have targeted also, including mine. However, there is little much done about it.

    At the end of the day, I hardly think God or whoever is up there, will loose sleep over a lousy tv show or minority opinion. So why should we?


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    you know I'm a muslim and i was offended by the pictures but at the same time i also think whatever happened was wrong. and they killed a muslim police officer who was defending that magazine's freedom of speech. well I'm getting a little off track. what i wanted to say was your last two lines are good. everyone should think like that and i will be remembering those my whole life
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    (Original post by Guybrush Sheepgood)
    It depends what you mean by insult. Of course feel free to mock Jews and blacks. Then feel free to have your moronic beliefs ridiculed and be ostracised from mainstream society. Freedom of speech woo!

    It might be okay to mock anyone and anything, but it is not okay to incite hatred or violence.
    The point should also be made that mocking an ideology is not the same as mocking people. It is a flawed analogy to say that mocking a religious belief is the same as mocking black people as people.
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    (Original post by Lady Comstock)
    But mocking beliefs does not.
    Mocking beliefs does not cause violence?

    ROFL, have you been living under a rock?

    Newsflash:
    - cartoonists mocks Islamic beliefs by drawing Muhammad
    - cartoonists are dead

    I'm pretty sure it was the mocking that lead to the violence...

    I AM NOT SAYING THAT IT CAUSED THE VIOLENCE. The violence was caused as a reaction by those vile ppl
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    (Original post by Ahwab)
    Mocking beliefs does not cause violence?

    ROFL, have you been living under a rock?

    Newsflash:
    - cartoonists mocks Islamic beliefs by drawing Muhammad
    - cartoonists are dead

    I'm pretty sure it was the mocking that lead to the violence...

    I AM NOT SAYING THAT IT CAUSED THE VIOLENCE. The violence was caused as a reaction by those vile ppl
    No, mocking beliefs in general does not incite violence. Mocking scenes against Christians on South Park have not incited violence against Christians as far as I am aware.

    What you refer to is like saying that complimenting people incites violence because some maniac decided to punch a person in the face who said that their shirt looked nice.
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    (Original post by democracyforum)
    It's freedom of speech after all.

    W must defend freedom of speech
    I think this pretty much answers your thread...

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    (Original post by Lady Comstock)
    No, mocking beliefs in general does not incite violence. Mocking scenes against Christians on South Park have not incited violence against Christians as far as I am aware.

    What you refer to is like saying that complimenting people incites violence because some maniac decided to punch a person in the face who said that their shirt looked nice.
    It is easy to see why mocking a person CAN cause violence. Obviously I didn't mean it will always cause violence lol

    It is difficult to see why you would punch someone for saying nice shirt...
    Even a maniac...
    That last point doesn't make sense to me
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    Spot on. People are hypocrital sheep
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    (Original post by Ahwab)
    I agree.
    But I do think that the cartoonists were involved, that is a fact. They chose to draw Muhammad. I regret and I mean this, I regret what has happened.

    But these are consequences for actions just like everything else.

    I am not saying what has happened is deserved or good in anyway.

    I just think this is something that could be avoided and lessons should be learnt.

    Idealism in our world will not exist sadly. There will always be sad consequences which we will struggle against.

    The answer is not to act brave or patriotic. It is about being smart and trying work your way around problems to find solutions.
    Go **** yourself. seriously. People can and should be able to draw whatever they damn well please without fear of being killed because some crazy ****kicker disagrees with it.

    Crap like this is what gives Muslims a bad name and is why good people are slowly turning into bigots. It could have been avoided if crazy people weren't in possession of firearms. It could of been avoided if crazy people didn't live in France. It could have been avoided if a bus hit that guy before he even saw the comic. The comic isn't the problem, the crazy people who think that a reasonable response to a comic is shooting people is the problem.

    MUSLIMS aren't allowed to draw Muhammad. Most of the world aren't Muslims and don't give a **** what your holy book says, savvy?

    I'm Catholic and there is a comic about two old women implying using a crucifix as a dildo. Am I morally justified to go on a shooting due to it, or do you only reserve that right for the "religion of peace"?
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    (Original post by Xenorebrem)
    As long as the cartoons attack ideologies and ideas. To attack people on the basis of factors out of their control is simply pointless and should be stopped.
    It's not a consistent approach and you should acknowledge this. If we take the dimensions of race, religion and politics.

    Race - we don't like to offend
    Religion - we want free speech
    Politics - we say we want free speech but we want to censor far-right politics and associated ideas e.g. Holocaust revisionism.

    I'm afraid it's not a consistent approach and excuses like "it's pointless" are pointless. The bottom line is that the current society advocates censorship on the ideas it considers taboo or unapproachable.
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    (Original post by Ahwab)
    This could not be any further from the truth IMHO.

    How can British ppl say this. Ironic IMHO.

    Take the queen for example.
    If you were to "exercise" your freedom of speech and mock her majesty and ridicule her, it could be seen as treason.

    Treason is punishable offence.

    Do you understand the concept of Parliament being unable to bind itself? The Treason Act came into force in 1351, the HRA in 1998... Not accounting for the ECHR, which has precedence too.

    There is no 'truth...in my opinion'. Truth is objectively provable fact, it cannot be something stated in opinion.

    How is it ironic I say this simply because of the passport I hold? Do I have to support every law this country has? Because I can probably come up with a list of a hundred laws I disagree with in the Companies Act alone.
 
 
 
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