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Pope Francis: Free expression doesn't mean right to insult others' faith watch

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    (Original post by Spandy)
    Every organisation in the world is decided by its present, not its past. The Holy See, like Japan, is no exception
    People will stop referring to their long and colourful history when the Catholic Church stops acting the way they do.
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    (Original post by Spandy)
    Every organisation in the world is decided by its present, not its past. The Holy See, like Japan, is no exception
    Has the Catholic church repudiated any of the crimes it has committed?
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    I must admit I really like this pope. He's not a religion fanatic he seems like a genuinely kind person and I mostly agree with his statement. Just because you can legally say say something, doesn't mean it is ok to insult and offend others. There isn't just a legal boundary to expression there is also a decency and a moral point one should not go over. Being mean is just childish and immature. The hard thing is to not engage and respect other's opinions and just ignore them if you do not agree with their beliefs.
    This cartoons scandal is not a legal issue. It is a moral values and decency issue. Yes you can be a d*** in today's society. Yes you can offend others fot their personal beliefs. It's totally legal. But is it right? Do we have no shame left? Why do we have to always argue and pick on each others like bullies?
    And because people will say 'So you say they had it coming?' - NO. No one can take a life and no one should be murdered. That is a crime with absolute no justification - well besides that they were crazy terrorists who had an urge to kill 'in the name of God' but that is still no justification only a sorry ass excuse for a reason. They are murderes and they should be rotting in jail.
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    (Original post by PopaPork)
    Bit like saying 'you have it just don't use it'

    In reality this simply means 'you don't have it'
    Not at all, it's like saying that you're free to get drunk if that's what you want to do, but it wouldn't be the soundest of advice for me to tell you to get drunk whenever and wherever you feel like it.

    Do not get me wrong, I'm one of the more extreme advocates for free speech in that I think that libellous speech is really the only speech that shouldn't be free. But just because I advocate free speech doesn't mean I agree with anything that is said.
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    "Free expression does not mean the right to express oneself freely"

    ^amended that title for you
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    (Original post by clh_hilary)
    Do you agree that saying some religions are false religions and hold no truths is an insult?
    The concept of religion is unclear in itself, and thus I agree with the pope. But of course I am against the extremist fringes. IMO, sarcasm and criticism should be met with criticism and sarcasm.
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    (Original post by Spandy)
    The concept of religion is unclear in itself, and thus I agree with the pope. But of course I am against the extremist fringes. IMO, sarcasm and criticism should be met with criticism and sarcasm.
    Do you mean the concept of insult? Or are you not answering my question at all?
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    People will stop referring to their long and colourful history when the Catholic Church stops acting the way they do.
    I am no insider, I'm not even Christian lol, but in this matter I agree with you, to some extent
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    Finally someone who's talking sense.
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    (Original post by clh_hilary)
    Do you mean the concept of insult? Or are you not answering my question at all?
    Lets examine it from a slightly different point of view- nationalism. A nationalist spirit is encouraged but chauvinism is not. If an outsider insults my country using some hurtful references, or insults the respect I have for our freedom fighters in the colonial era, then I will certainly condemn it if a fellow countryman responds with violence towards the outsider, however, I reserve the right to make the offence caused to me known and report the post.
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    Finally someone who's talking sense.
    With whose frame of reference?
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    (Original post by Spandy)
    Lets examine it from a slightly different point of view- nationalism. A nationalist spirit is encouraged but chauvinism is not. If an outsider insults my country using some hurtful references, or insults the respect I have for our freedom fighters in the colonial era, then I will certainly condemn it if a fellow countryman responds with violence towards the outsider, however, I reserve the right to make the offence caused to me known and report the post.
    Nationalism should be open to criticism and to be ridiculed. It's an idea.

    Your example just agrees with my stance - you can condemn however you like, that's your freedom of expression, too.
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    It was his very Church from which our rights to freedom of expression were originally won. For over 1,000 it was this Church which brutally suppressed an entire continent, so of course it is of no surprise that he wants to tighten his grasp again.

    He has every right to an opinion and we have every right to tell him where to go
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    (Original post by Spandy)
    With whose frame of reference?
    Go through the thread and you'll see.
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    (Original post by yo radical one)
    It was his very Church from which our rights to freedom of expression were originally won.

    He has every right to an opinion and we have every right to tell him where to go
    I don't agree. I respect the church, as much as I respect every religion in this world, but I believe the church became more 'open' only after the French revolution
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    (Original post by Spandy)
    I don't agree. I respect the church, as much as I respect every religion in this world, but I believe the church became more 'open' only after the French revolution
    A part of the French revolution was casting off Papal oppression, that is why to the average Brit, the French seem so obsessed with freedom of expression, freedom to mock, freedom to criticise, it is a part of their national DNA.
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    (Original post by Hariex)
    Freedom of speech is something that is fundamentally virtuous. This is not, however, equivalent to saying that it should be encouraged in all circumstances. We all have the right to swear at our parents or tell our teacher they are a manic tyrant. Should we do this? Best not.

    The answer, though, is not to leave the issue at that. If you have serious issues with your teacher, sit them down and talk. That's the key word here - talk.

    Criticism of religion is healthy and, as a Christian, I welcome and encourage it. I respect that you have the right to mock my religion - many people do - though I would much rather civilised discussion rather than inflammatory cartoons.
    The best post I saw in the thread. I agree.
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    What I love is when popes stand there in gold robes with a gold hat and staff, on a balcony from a giant building covered in gold, and tell people not to be materialistic.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/pe...a-9672464.html
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    (Original post by yo radical one)
    A part of the French revolution was casting off Papal oppression, that is why to the average Brit, the French seem so obsessed with freedom of expression, freedom to mock, freedom to criticise, it is a part of their national DNA.
    Freedom to criticise, I'm fine with it. I wish I could say the same for freedom to mock. Freedom to mock is desirable, from a farsighted view point, but in today's world, it has no practical utility.
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    If someone insults your mother, you punch them? No. If someone verbally insults your mother, you verbally insult theirs, surely. To be the bigger person and accept that it's their opinion and they have the right to say it would be good. Violent action as a response to words is not justice.
 
 
 
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