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Why is their so much unfair cynicism toward Farage & UKIP voters? Watch

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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    Ridiculous hypothetical figures aside, do you support the deportation of Brits who 'contribute nothing'?
    You think its hypothetical that some immigrants contribute nothing? What planet are you on? This isnt nuclear physics

    Only-admit-those-who-will-not-leech

    Do you understand what means? I dont think you do- when you're using "net contribution from immigrants is positive" research- we still have thousands of immigrants in this country who are contributing as much as a solar-powered torch!

    So again, why admit people who do not contribute to this country???
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    (Original post by billydisco)
    You think its hypothetical that some immigrants contribute nothing? What planet are you on? This isnt nuclear physics

    Only-admit-those-who-will-not-leech

    Do you understand what means? I dont think you do- when you're using "net contribution from immigrants is positive" research- we still have thousands of immigrants in this country who are contributing as much as a solar-powered torch!

    So again, why admit people who do not contribute to this country???
    If I believed the first thing I wouldn't have used the word 'net'. What, were those figures supposed to be accurate? XD

    Because of the principle of it. Why keep people who do not contribute to this country?




    ---

    And all the time ignoring the REAL problem with the economy. Scapegoating - all UKIP offers.
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    (Original post by billydisco)
    Let me guess, not spraying the workshy with £20k a year in benefits is suddenly "contempt"?
    Not only is it contemptuous - particularly when Thatcherism was what stole their jobs in the first place - it's economic illiteracy, as I've spelled out to you many times before.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    Because of the principle of it.
    The principle of it being good to admit people who will not contribute?

    (Original post by RayApparently)
    Why keep people who do not contribute to this country?
    Could you stop asking a question when you cannot answer mine- why are you against preventing people who will not contribute to this country from being allowed to come here from other countries?
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    (Original post by billydisco)
    The principle of it being good to admit people who will not contribute?


    Could you stop asking a question when you cannot answer mine- why are you against preventing people who will not contribute to this country from being allowed to come here from other countries?
    The principle of the free movement of peoples.

    Answer my question and the answer to yours becomes obvious.

    This line of questioning makes UKIP look weak.
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    Personally speaking I have little issue with Ukip's policies, my only gripe with the party is that they are a manifestation of the 'blame anybody but yourself' culture.

    My gripe and the reason they are only my third preference right now is with Farage himself. I don't like his aim to destroy the EU rather than simply have Britain leave (he's been on the Daily Politics in the past and stated so) but also I generally don't like how he trades off a false image. There's nothing wrong with being a privately educated commodities broker who's been in politicks at least 15 years but he's most certainly part of the establishment and not the average Joe. It makes him come across as slimy.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Has their been a referendum I'm not aware of?
    I couldn't say whether you are aware of it but it took place on 5th June 1975
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    I couldn't say whether you are aware of it but it took place on 5th June 1975
    Which was not a referendum on the European Union, it was a referendum on the EEC, and was voted for on the understanding of it being about a member of a free market not about being a member of a supernational and ever expanding federation.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    The principle of the free movement of peoples.
    Do you support 20 million poor Africans being allowed to move to the UK and claim benefits from the UK taxpayer? That would be the principle of the free movement of peoples, as you just stated.

    (Original post by RayApparently)
    Answer my question and the answer to yours becomes obvious.
    You're trying to compare deporting British nationals from their own country, with rejecting immigrants wanting to live in our country. Do you see how stupid that is?

    (Original post by RayApparently)
    This line of questioning makes UKIP look weak.
    Yeah thats why you couldn't answer my Q

    Again, why admit immigrants who are a net-cost to our country? I have had to ask four times now. Any neutral reading this must be laughing at you trying to wriggle away from answering.....
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    (Original post by limetang)
    Which was not a referendum on the European Union, it was a referendum on the EEC, and was voted for on the understanding of it being about a member of a free market not about being a member of a supernational and ever expanding federation.
    Then why did the "NO" campaign leaflet distributed to every household in 1975 say:

    ..it sets out by stages to merge Britain with France, Germany, Italy and other countries into a single nation. This will take away from us the right to rule ourselves which we have enjoyed for centuries.
    You can read it here

    http://www.civitas.org.uk/eufacts/1975ReferendumNO.pdf

    There is nothing that UKIP is saying now that the NO campaign wasn't saying then.

    The idea that this was somehow a different question from the question posed today is rubbish.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    I couldn't say whether you are aware of it but it took place on 5th June 1975
    Did it?

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite...ferendum,_1975

    That referendum was about joining the EEC trading block. Not the EU.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    Then why did the "NO" campaign leaflet distributed to every household in 1975 say:



    You can read it here

    http://www.civitas.org.uk/eufacts/1975ReferendumNO.pdf

    There is nothing that UKIP is saying now that the NO campaign wasn't saying then.

    The idea that this was somehow a different question from the question posed today is rubbish.
    There's a lot more that ukip are saying now. There was no E10 then.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Did it?

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite...ferendum,_1975

    That referendum was about joining the EEC trading block. Not the EU.
    It can't have been because we joined the EEC on 1st January 1973, 21/2 years previously.

    If you marry someone; later she changes her name, puts on weight, dyes her hair and does a doctorate, are you still married to her? Changes in the name or attributes of a person or organisation do not mean that it is a different person or organisation. There are companies that have changed their name and no longer carry out their original trade but they are still the same company. The EU of today is still the organisation we joined in 1973.

    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    There's a lot more that ukip are saying now. There was no E10 then.
    UKIP was founded in 1993. The A10 members joined in 2004. In what way did UKIP's EU policy change as a result of the A10 members joining? I can tell you it is the same now as it was then, so the A10 joining has had no impact on UKIP's view of the EU.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    It can't have been because we joined the EEC on 1st January 1973, 21/2 years previously.

    If you marry someone; later she changes her name, puts on weight, dyes her hair and does a doctorate, are you still married to her? Changes in the name or attributes of a person or organisation do not mean that it is a different person or organisation. There are companies that have changed their name and no longer carry out their original trade but they are still the same company. The EU of today is still the organisation we joined in 1973.



    UKIP was founded in 1993. The A10 members joined in 2004. In what way did UKIP's EU policy change as a result of the A10 members joining? I can tell you it is the same now as it was then, so the A10 joining has had no impact on UKIP's view of the EU.
    The referendum on offer in 75 was for a common market. The EEC has morphed into the EU and is no longer a common market.

    Why do you not want a democratic referendum?
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    The referendum on offer in 75 was for a common market. The EEC has morphed into the EU and is no longer a common market.

    Why do you not want a democratic referendum?
    You obviously missed what I posted earlier which is what the NO campaign said the EEC was about

    ..it sets out by stages to merge Britain with France, Germany, Italy and other countries into a single nation. This will take away from us the right to rule ourselves which we have enjoyed for centuries.
    We have a representative democracy. The 1975 referendum was only held because of internal problems in the Labour Party. The present referendum offer is only due to internal problems in the Conservative Party.

    If UKIP won the 2015 general election it could legitimately say that its victory was a mandate for withdrawal from the EU without any need for a popular vote.

    The 1973 Northern Ireland and 2014 Scottish referenda were different. Effectively there was no way in which the peoples of those parts of the UK could express a clear view about the continuance of the Union.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    You obviously missed what I posted earlier which is what the NO campaign said the EEC was about



    We have a representative democracy. The 1975 referendum was only held because of internal problems in the Labour Party. The present referendum offer is only due to internal problems in the Conservative Party.

    If UKIP won the 2015 general election it could legitimately say that its victory was a mandate for withdrawal from the EU without any need for a popular vote.

    The 1973 Northern Ireland and 2014 Scottish referenda were different. Effectively there was no way in which the peoples of those parts of the UK could express a clear view about the continuance of the Union.
    So you're against a democratic referendum?

    You never explained why?
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    So you're against a democratic referendum?

    You never explained why?
    It is not consistent with a representative democracy.
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    Oh great yet another thread of whiny UKIPers playing the victim.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    Then why did the "NO" campaign leaflet distributed to every household in 1975 say:



    You can read it here

    http://www.civitas.org.uk/eufacts/1975ReferendumNO.pdf

    There is nothing that UKIP is saying now that the NO campaign wasn't saying then.

    The idea that this was somehow a different question from the question posed today is rubbish.
    You're telling me what the NO campaign was warning would happen, not what people were actually presented with and what people actually thought they were getting,
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    I don't think that UKIP is a racist party. However:

    I do think it is a remarkable coincidence though that (Just like another protest group in the 30's) they only came about through a massive recession. They are a populist party, a mirror image to the Greens full of vacuous promises about if only the EU were gone we would have a utopia where there would be no crime, we'd smoke in pubs and then get cured in the NHS because there's no poles. Just like How the Greens are going to turn Britian into a paradise by taxing big companies and raising benefits and wages ( Oh and if these big companies leave, or cut jobs to squeeze costs, then we'll just have to invest more in renewable s((I'm all for renewable s, but they should not be the basis of our economy!))

    Go onto any media source and int he comments section you will find a dozen reasons why nobody should support ukip.
 
 
 
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