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Why doesn't the NHS charge for missed GP appointments? Watch

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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    I know. But they make such annoying blatantly wrong or hypocritical statements that I feel compelled to challenge them.

    They then just move the goalposts. Like now MS replied with "I'm tired of apologists limping the feckless together with the vulnerable." even though i said nothing of the sort. I just pointed out that he made the assumption that lumped all the vulnerable together with the feckless.


    I probably do similar stuff defending my own beliefs but I do try to be as logical,objective and rational as possible when having an argument about something. It;s like they don't even try! :fuhrer:
    Ahaha it is a common thing I have found with MS. Never once seen an intelligent or well thought out response from that user.
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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    I don't turn up to my doctors appointment. You charge me a sum because of this.

    I don't pay.

    What are you going to do?

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    Go down normal debt recovery route.

    Bailiffs for those employed. Reduction I benegits at source for those receiving benefits or state pension.

    Legislation was passed recently to claim debt back at source.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Go down normal debt recovery route.

    Bailiffs for those employed. Reduction I benegits at source for those receiving benefits or state pension.

    Legislation was passed recently to claim debt back at source.
    You make it sound very easy.

    So I am employed - which means bailiffs according to you. This means that you have to issue a notice. I have to ignore that notice. You have to go to court to enforce this. I have to not pay it still. Then you have to pay for bailiffs to come for me.

    Then you have to hope that I, as an unemployed person, have possessions which are of some value.

    How much was the original charge?

    Any decent system will also have an independent appeals body - just like parking fines. That'll cost you too.

    Say I am on job seekers - and I don't pay. You reduce my benefits... how many times can you do this?
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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    You make it sound very easy.

    So I am employed - which means bailiffs according to you. This means that you have to issue a notice. I have to ignore that notice. You have to go to court to enforce this. I have to not pay it still. Then you have to pay for bailiffs to come for me.

    Then you have to hope that I, as an unemployed person, have possessions which are of some value.

    How much was the original charge?

    Any decent system will also have an independent appeals body - just like parking fines. That'll cost you too.

    Say I am on job seekers - and I don't pay. You reduce my benefits... how many times can you do this?
    The debtor picks up the bailiffs bill. Non payement of a debt increased the debt substantially.

    Unemployed in debt have benefits stopped at source. Owe money and reductions are made in benefit payements.

    Maybe there would be an appeals body. Maybe not. Again, running costs get pushed onto the cost of the fines.

    Theses systems are already in place and work effectively.

    Of course, hopefully changing the entitlement culture of the fecklesss in society who choose to behave irresponsibly of course would mean more money going to where its needed.

    I'm sick and tired of apologists using the vunerabke in society to justify selfish feckless behaviour.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    The debtor picks up the bailiffs bill. Non payement of a debt increased the debt substantially.

    Unemployed in debt have benefits stopped at source. Owe money and reductions are made in benefit payements.

    Maybe there would be an appeals body. Maybe not. Again, running costs get pushed onto the cost of the fines.

    Theses systems are already in place and work effectively.

    Of course, hopefully changing the entitlement culture of the fecklesss in society who choose to behave irresponsibly of course would mean more money going to where its needed.

    I'm sick and tired of apologists using the vunerabke in society to justify selfish feckless behaviour.
    How much would you set the charge at?
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Doctors and nurses already get breaks.

    GPs have called for this in order to ensure patroness turn up.

    I don't know where you've got the idea that wasting money saved money.

    For each non attendance it is costing the taxpayer. I want value for money and I want the feckless in society penalised for costing me and other taxpayers money.
    Why don't you set up a company to help GPs collect fines from DNAs and see how many use it?
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    The debtor picks up the bailiffs bill. Non payement of a debt increased the debt substantially.

    Unemployed in debt have benefits stopped at source. Owe money and reductions are made in benefit payements.

    Maybe there would be an appeals body. Maybe not. Again, running costs get pushed onto the cost of the fines.

    Theses systems are already in place and work effectively.

    Of course, hopefully changing the entitlement culture of the fecklesss in society who choose to behave irresponsibly of course would mean more money going to where its needed.

    I'm sick and tired of apologists using the vunerabke in society to justify selfish feckless behaviour.
    The sort of people who miss appointments are often the ones that haven't got any money like addicts, people with serious mental health problems and old people. A bit pointless trying to get money out of an old person with dementia who don't know what day of the week it is.
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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    How much would you set the charge at?
    The cost of appointment plus administrative costs of debt collection. No profit and no loss.

    Sadly, because no money Actually exchanges hands during the use of the health service, it's all too easy to think that there's no cost incurred.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    The sort of people who miss appointments are often the ones that haven't got any money like addicts, mental patients and old people. A bit pointless trying to get money out of an old person with dementia who don't know what day of the week it is.
    Move missed two GP appointments and don't fall into those categories.

    Not so pointless however claiming money back from a non dementia sufferer.

    As an aside, you do realise that people like dentist sufferers have carers and social workers as they're deemed as vunerable
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    The cost of appointment plus administrative costs of debt collection. No profit and no loss.

    Sadly, because no money Actually exchanges hands during the use of the health service, it's all too easy to think that there's no cost incurred.
    Well how much is this though - do you know the price of a GP's appointment?

    And how do you pre-emptively calculate admin costs?

    This isn't some dodgy private parking company which is being set up here...
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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    Well how much is this though - do you know the price of a GP's appointment?

    And how do you pre-emptively calculate admin costs?

    This isn't some dodgy private parking company which is being set up here...
    It's called budgeting. The nhs do it all of the time as does everywhere. They'll be an hourly rate for doctors, nurses, admin staff, utility bills etc.
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    I'll point out at this point that the non-attendance rate for psychiatric clinics is around the 50% mark. For appointments that last 1-1.5 hours.

    They do not charge for no shows.
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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    Well how much is this though - do you know the price of a GP's appointment?

    And how do you pre-emptively calculate admin costs?

    This isn't some dodgy private parking company which is being set up here...
    You seem to be making it sound like this is some zany idea that has never been implemented before now, fines have existed for a long time, and are often fairly arbitrary, as they're often a figure thats chosen as being high enough to deter something from happening more than they are chosen to be representative of costs incurred.

    The only practical argument of much weight I can think of against this (assuming appropriate safeguards are in place for vulnerable patients) is that it may put people off going to doctor, but likewise it does have a potential benefit of freeing up appointments in the long run so more people have access to a doctor when they need one.
 
 
 
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