Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
x Turn on thread page Beta

Congratulations to the Greek left! The movement against austerity.... watch

Announcements
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I wonder if in practise, given the alternatives, they could persuade the Greeks that withdrawal might be the only and best option.
    The fact the population still feels scared by various Greek Government's management of the economy/currency back in the days of the drachma is quite telling...
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Quady)
    The fact the population still feels scared by various Greek Government's management of the economy/currency back in the days of the drachma is quite telling...
    If all you've ever known is dictatorship and corruption then an EU which at least clamps down on that kind of thing is probably pretty appealing. Same for Eastern Europe although you've got the added element that being a lone state means being vulnerable to Russia who are really despised by the Poles for example.
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    Greece will be left in a worse state than they are currently under SYRIZA.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Our Greens are tame, they aren't even as far left as the post-war consensus. It's the rest of the parties that are extreme.
    Would you mind expanding upon this?

    Sounds a bit unlikely.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BitWindy)
    Would you mind expanding upon this?

    Sounds a bit unlikely.
    What do you want me to say? I would have thought it's obvious the Greens are not even as far left as the post-war consensus. Would you agree that "left" means public/state ownership of the means of production, funded by taxation and run on a need basis, and "right" means private ownership of the means of production, funded by capital and run on a profit basis? If so, the centre ground is a fairly even mix of the two, and even you cannot argue that any of the other parties are anything other than far to the extreme right of this centre ground.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by nexttime)
    This will only end badly for Greece, if only because the rest of the ruling parties can't have them look good. Europe's Cuba, perhaps?
    Dunno, relations between Cuba and the US are warming, and Cuba is on the rise, just about.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    I already made a thread about this :hmmm:


    There are going to face an uphill battle with lots of vested interests determined to undermine them at every turn.

    Also if this had been 50 years ago and Greece had been a south american country a Pinochet would be being put in place right about now.


    Another angry voice on it

    http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co...or-greece.html
    Or if this was fifty years ago and this was Greece, that is, the Greek Civil War...
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    In their 48 hours in office Syriza have reintroduced the minimum wage, reinstated pensions, reintroduced collective bargaining in the workplace, granted children born in Greece to migrants Greek citizenship, rehired public sector workers who had lost their jobs and stopped privitsation plans that were in progress. Not bad for two days work.
    And where is all of the money going to come from to do all of this?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Quady)
    The fact the population still feels scared by various Greek Government's management of the economy/currency back in the days of the drachma is quite telling...
    Interesting listening to Greenspan on the subject of the inevitability of Grexit today.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02jkn9f

    Even though Greenspan is largely a discredited figure these days, I couldn't help agreeing with his analysis.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    Even if Syriza did back down, they'd simply cause enough defections to trigger another election which would elect someone else who promises not to back down, and so on.

    The EU can help Greece or it can take responsibility for the consequences of not doing so.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Yanis on Newsnight. He talks and looks like a normal person :/

    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Smash the oligarchy! :soap:



    So weird having someone like that in an actual government. I'm used to people with my kind of politics never getting anywhere...

    Meanwhile back in the UK we must managed our expectations and vote for labour so they can privatize the NHS and public services more softly.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Smash the oligarchy! :soap:

    So weird having someone like that in an actual government. I'm used to people with my kind of politics never getting anywhere...

    Meanwhile back in the UK we must managed our expectations and vote for labour so they can privatize the NHS and public services more softly.
    When Blair came in, you could at least say the government looked a bit more modern and trendy. Now they are so toe-curlingly out of touch with ordinary issues and concerns, that New Labour, the Tories and the LibDims all look like members of the new aristocracy, crushing the serfs before heading off for a spot of Waitrose shopping and property buying in the £10m range.

    It's all so horribly similar.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    And it's all fallen into an oh-so-familiar pattern.

    Governance not quite so easy, and they're already spending money when they're at the bottom of the biggest overdraft imagineable.

    So it's off to the international version of Godwin's Law. Blame the Nazis. Yes, ask for war reparations, stir up the Greeks against the Germans, and distract attention away from the fact that there is no plan whatsoever except to give away money that doesn't exist. No different from Kircher with the Argentinian economy in the toilet, blames Britain.

    Greece is a shopaholic with all its credit cards maxed out, no job, no friends and now about to take out a payday loan to go on a spending spree in Westfield.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Clip)
    And it's all fallen into an oh-so-familiar pattern.

    Governance not quite so easy, and they're already spending money when they're at the bottom of the biggest overdraft imagineable.

    So it's off to the international version of Godwin's Law. Blame the Nazis. Yes, ask for war reparations, stir up the Greeks against the Germans, and distract attention away from the fact that there is no plan whatsoever except to give away money that doesn't exist.

    Greece is a shopaholic with all its credit cards maxed out, no job, no friends and now about to take out a payday loan to go on a spending spree in Westfield.
    It really isn't that simple. Greece did over-borrow for sure, but so did many of the other economies in a similar state of low productivity and high long term unemployment rates. One key question is exactly why the bankers were permitted to keep making such vast loans to Greece when it was perfectly clear that the EU taxpayer would ultimately pick up the bill? Behind this cynicism lies the dead hand of Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan, both of whom were active in Athens and Brussels perpetrating the lie that all was well in the extreme South of Europe and the banks could keep pouring in the cash.

    Not to mention why Greece was rushed into the Euro in the first place as a political fix to try to stabilise them and a sop to mollify them into accepting EU entry talks with Turkey. (the latter of course failed)

    I'm not saying Greece hasn't been a willing participant on some level, but there have been many manipulations and profoundly ignorant policy making by people who should and do know better.

    If I was Syriza, I would be doing exactly the same. However, the hard part is going to be telling their population that they can't have it both ways and that leaving the Euro is going to be the only viable option.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    It really isn't that simple. Greece did over-borrow for sure, but so did many of the other economies in a similar state of low productivity and high long term unemployment rates. One key question is exactly why the bankers were permitted to keep making such vast loans to Greece when it was perfectly clear that the EU taxpayer would ultimately pick up the bill? Behind this cynicism lies the dead hand of Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan, both of whom were active in Athens and Brussels perpetrating the lie that all was well in the extreme South of Europe and the banks could keep pouring in the cash.

    Not to mention why Greece was rushed into the Euro in the first place as a political fix to try to stabilise them and a sop to mollify them into accepting EU entry talks with Turkey. (the latter of course failed)

    I'm not saying Greece hasn't been a willing participant on some level, but there have been many manipulations and profoundly ignorant policy making by people who should and do know better.

    If I was Syriza, I would be doing exactly the same. However, the hard part is going to be telling their population that they can't have it both ways and that leaving the Euro is going to be the only viable option.
    I'm not saying there isn't plenty of blame to be shared, either. Only that this is childish desperation on a grand scale to be trying to claim off Naza Germany.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    It's Greece's own fault that they're in this mess and an anti-business left-wing Government will do nothing more than increase borrowing and send unemployment rocketing, as well as discourage investment in sectors such as manufacturing and exports which is desperately needed in an economy which is almost entirely services based - austerity, low corporate tax rates and repayment of debt is the only way forward in economic downturn and ridiculously high structural deficit as is the case with Greece.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    What do you want me to say? I would have thought it's obvious the Greens are not even as far left as the post-war consensus. Would you agree that "left" means public/state ownership of the means of production, funded by taxation and run on a need basis, and "right" means private ownership of the means of production, funded by capital and run on a profit basis? If so, the centre ground is a fairly even mix of the two, and even you cannot argue that any of the other parties are anything other than far to the extreme right of this centre ground.
    Shush, We all know Greens are communists.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BitWindy)
    Would you mind expanding upon this?

    Sounds a bit unlikely.



    Not how old Tory are loony left by today standards.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by billyfisher100)
    It's Greece's own fault that they're in this mess and an anti-business left-wing Government will do nothing more than increase borrowing and send unemployment rocketing, as well as discourage investment in sectors such as manufacturing and exports which is desperately needed in an economy which is almost entirely services based - austerity, low corporate tax rates and repayment of debt is the only way forward in economic downturn and ridiculously high structural deficit as is the case with Greece.
    It's Troika's fault Greece is in this mess and secondly of the Greek politicians who followed the austerity measures and said yes to the memorandum. The previous parties in charge-Panhellenic Socialist Movement (PASOK) and New Demorcracy (ND)-did nothing but destroying and shaming the country.

    Now, for the very first time, a Greek government says ''no, we won't accept this economic enslavement anymore'', SYRIZA are sticking to what is good for the people of Greece. Troika doesn't like that but that's not important. What's important is to do what is right.
 
 
 
Poll
Do I go to The Streets tomorrow night?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.