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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    Who becomes more productive?

    The worker forced to work as a self employed window cleaner for £3 a hour due to being sanctioned or a student who learns Mandarin and acts as a export agent for helping British businesses sell their products to China?

    I would bet on the Student.

    The trouble is that the person in question wouldn't have enough time to be a student because that person is constantly in survival mode filling in endless job centre forms.

    And how can the person in Question do A levels or a level 3 college course. When they are offered a job they have to accept it. This means they have to leave their College course they paid for!!

    This is the cycle the Tories have put people in.

    One reason why the economy is screwed.

    And the economy is not growing. Its getting smaller. That is why there is deflation. The only reason the figures are increasing is because the rich & the super rich have create a micro-economy within our main economy. The books have been cooked so to speak. This other economy just makes our main economy look like its growing when its not.

    So quit speaking down to people and saying there are jobs for them. You have no idea what your talking about.

    Now if you said learn how to repair vintage sports cars or make accessories like a Ivory Gear Knob I may have thought that I misjudged you but as usual that isn't the case.
    Why would the toilet cleaner be filling in job forms if they have a job?

    I am confused what point you are actually trying to make...... somebody can work a full-time job AND better themselves through evening classes.....
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    (Original post by billydisco)
    Why would the toilet cleaner be filling in job forms if they have a job?

    I am confused what point you are actually trying to make...... somebody can work a full-time job AND better themselves through evening classes.....
    When your on Job Seekers allowance you have to spend 35 hours a week filling in forms on the job centre website. If you don't you get sanctioned. A sanction can last up to 3 months.

    It is some what impossible to take a full time college course while your on job seekers allowance. You have random appointments spread out during the whole of the day time.

    When someone gets sanctioned they are more likely to take any job they can get and this gets them into areas where they become exploited.

    Majority of Corporations across Britain have been using Min-Wage law to put workers on £2.68 a hour. Apprentice Wage. They are abusing it.

    This means for a worker to have any chance of paying his rent he is going to have to work for 70 hours to get £187.60.

    The worker will have no time for evening classes.

    Try working 5am to 5pm then going to college for a night class 2 days a week at 6pm to 9pm. It is physically & mentally exhausting.
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    Majority of Corporations across Britain have been using Min-Wage law to put workers on £2.68 a hour. Apprentice Wage. They are abusing it.
    So life was better before the NMW?
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    Majority of Corporations across Britain have been using Min-Wage law to put workers on £2.68 a hour. Apprentice Wage. They are abusing it.
    [citation needed]
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    (Original post by Quady)
    So life was better before the NMW?
    One of the reasons NMW was brought in was that America has had it for far longer and it never got in the way of wage repression and general class warfare against the less well off over there. It was a good way for Labour to keep their left wing voters happy without really standing up against private power (Gordan brown even thought it was too high). This worked doubly well as Tories did their usual throffing at the mouth over it.

    It doesn't have to be like that. But the existence of a NMW in itself does not mean you have economic justice. I'm a supporter of having a minimum wage. But it should be higher than it is.

    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    [citation needed]
    TSR isn't a social science/economic journal. Hardly anyone provides citations.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    TSR isn't a social science/economic journal. Hardly anyone provides citations.
    Pretty radical claim to be making regradless
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    One of the reasons NMW was brought in was that America has had it for far longer and it never got in the way of wage repression and general class warfare against the less well off over there. It was a good way for Labour to keep their left wing voters happy without really standing up against private power (Gordan brown even thought it was too high). This worked doubly well as Tories did their usual throffing at the mouth over it.

    It doesn't have to be like that. But the existence of a NMW in itself does not mean you have economic justice. I'm a supporter of having a minimum wage. But it should be higher than it is.
    So why'd the Tories oppose it then?

    I didn't ask if it was perfect, just if life was better then...
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Pretty radical claim to be making regradless
    Not really. It is in the news quite a lot. Apprentices can be paid below min wage. Unpaid internships if you want o be a journalist.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Not really. It is in the news quite a lot. Apprentices can be paid below min wage. Unpaid internships if you want o be a journalist.
    They aren't paid less than minimum wage, they're payed a different minimum wage, being pedantic, and it being in the news that it happens is far from the "majority" doing it.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    So why'd the Tories oppose it then?

    I didn't ask if it was perfect, just if life was better then...
    For normal Tory reasons. Without realising (maybe some do) the Tories here are making Labour look left wing which gets people to vote for labour to stand up against the Tories which helps keep the right wing economic consensus in place which is strictly a right wing economic view point. Like now, Ed miliband is portrayed as being a borderline communist for suggesting a pathetic price freeze on the energy companies by the Tories and the right wing press. Not only does this alienate those who have been taught regulation is bad from voting labour it also creates the illusion of an alternative to Toryism that is really just Toryism lite. This hinders any real alternative economic movement to arise since both sides are so similar to the point they may as well be the same side. The political economy essentially manufacturers how people vote and stifles meaningful democracy from existing. For example all three big parties do no want to regulate or change the way the finance and bank sector work in any meaningful way. There is no democratic scrutiny over this issue. Even though it is an issue that caused the greatest economic mess since the 1930s great depression.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    They aren't paid less than minimum wage, they're payed a different minimum wage, being pedantic, and it being in the news that it happens is far from the "majority" doing it.
    Just say your employer is an apprentice. Can now pay him/her less.

    Good look surviving on £2.98 an hour. Or on nothing if you want to be a journalist.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    So life was better before the NMW?
    Life was better before Neo-Liberalism. That is a fact.
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    When your on Job Seekers allowance you have to spend 35 hours a week filling in forms on the job centre website.
    I didnt bother reading beyond this.

    If you want me to take you seriously, whats the point in talking nonsense?
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    (Original post by billydisco)
    I didnt bother reading beyond this.

    If you want me to take you seriously, whats the point in talking nonsense?
    Don't bother then. This is politics not some easy play ground where your ideology can pounce on everyone else willingly.
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    Don't bother then. This is politics not some easy play ground where your ideology can pounce on everyone else willingly.
    and that justifies you writing silly ****?
 
 
 
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