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    (Original post by Mad Vlad)
    The circumstances don't change whether you get access to meaningless data or not. Ergo it doesn't change anything. I'd even go as far as saying that this would have a detrimental effect on the mod team.

    So what's the point? You're throwing your toys out the pram because you're not getting your own way again.
    It's not meaningless and as a manager, you know this. Stop repeating the same baseless comment when I've clearly stated the numerous advantages such as system has to offer.

    If you went into your office and declared that none of your actions as manager need to be accountable or transparent, how long do you think it'd take before your ass was hauled in front of a tribunal?
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    (Original post by yo radical one)
    The moderators do work really hard and whilst these may be interesting to see, it seems like you are asking volunteers to do a lot of extra legwork for no real reason.
    See the main posted (edited). It'd take minimal effort and claiming transparency and accountability are "no real reason" well when did TSR turn into the home of Russian propaganda? :lol:
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    Of course the mods won't release stats.
    I have never seen them back after all the years of being on this forum, even if they are shown to be wrong, naive, bigoted etc. The mods are simply infallible as far as they are concerned.
    And to add to it all, the rules seem to change from user to user, and each mod has their own take. Why else do you think decent conversation has died out in this forum? Because debate can't happen when mods defend those who are wrong or trolling over maturity and facts.

    Anyone who doesn't release stats clearly knows how broken the system is.
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    (Original post by geoking)
    See the main posted (edited). It'd take minimal effort and claiming transparency and accountability are "no real reason" well when did TSR turn into the home of Russian propaganda? :lol:
    Russian?

    Please, don't insult me
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    (Original post by geoking)
    It's not meaningless and as a manager, you know this. Stop repeating the same baseless comment when I've clearly stated the numerous advantages such as system has to offer.

    If you went into your office and declared that none of your actions as manager need to be accountable or transparent, how long do you think it'd take before your ass was hauled in front of a tribunal?
    Being in the line of business that I work in, my accountability and transparency points directly upwards. My team's customers need to not even know that we're there. You're trying to compare two things that are not analogous.
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    (Original post by Mad Vlad)
    Being in the line of business that I work in, my accountability and transparency points directly upwards. My team's customers need to not even know that we're there. You're trying to compare two things that are not analogous.
    That is a dire business model. Who the hell do you work for? Basic successful business know that stats should be freely available to customers and employees. To withhold such information is only done to protect yourself from bad performance and for your customers to see and realise this. Sorry, but the TSR mod team doesn't have a leg to stand on when asked such a simple task. I'm just glad for once that someone is airing out this problem so we can all see just how discontent many users are about this longstanding issue.
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    Good idea but trolls mess the skewness up
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    (Original post by Mad Vlad)
    Being in the line of business that I work in, my accountability and transparency points directly upwards. My team's customers need to not even know that we're there. You're trying to compare two things that are not analogous.
    I was saying about you dealing with your team, and at any rate if one of your underlings ****s up, what then happens? You still hide in the murky shadows?
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    One point I'd like to raise is I can't actually give examples of when this would have been specifically useful, because talking about moderated events is against the rules. That quite clearly shows how broken the system is - "Please leave us feedback on how to improve the site, but you can't give us examples because that's against the rules"
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    (Original post by geoking)
    One point I'd like to raise is I can't actually give examples of when this would have been specifically useful, because talking about moderated events is against the rules. That quite clearly shows how broken the system is - "Please leave us feedback on how to improve the site, but you can't give us examples because that's against the rules"
    You're perfectly free to give examples, but the rules have been the same for your entire time on the site: you can't talk about why you got warned outside of the AAM forums. You can mention times you were warned where these stats would be useful, or give examples of how it would be useful or how to improve the site. You just can't talk about why you were specifically given a card. If you can't do any of that without violating that rule, you should probably think of a better example or leave your feedback on AAM and we can mark it for the CT to read.

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    (Original post by Hype en Ecosse;53332809[B)
    ]You're perfectly free to give examples,[/B] but the rules have been the same for your entire time on the site: you can't talk about why you got warned outside of the AAM forums. You can mention times you were warned where these stats would be useful, or give examples of how it would be useful or how to improve the site. You just can't talk about why you were specifically given a card. If you can't do any of that without violating that rule, you should probably think of a better example or leave your feedback on AAM and we can mark it for the CT to read.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Please explain how on earth that is possible. Free to give examples, but I can't because if I say "I was warned for X, this would be beneficial for other users to see" *bam* blue card. :facepalm:

    To summarise there have been two incidents in which I was moderated yet there was nothing in the rules against what I said, and it came down heavily on moderator subjectivity. Incidents like that need to be minimised, and one way to do that would be to have a monthly summary on cards issued and reasons why. Plus by showing the hilariously impossible success rate of cards, this would highlight how when challenged, the moderators need to be more open minded.

    CT needs to read this thread. The fact that the moderation is arguing against transparency and accountability is nothing short of laughable.
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    (Original post by geoking)
    One point I'd like to raise is I can't actually give examples of when this would have been specifically useful, because talking about moderated events is against the rules. That quite clearly shows how broken the system is - "Please leave us feedback on how to improve the site, but you can't give us examples because that's against the rules"
    It's more like 'Please give feedback on mod issues to the mod team'. If you want to give feedback with examples, nothing to stop you doing so in AAM.

    But you're right, giving the feedback directly to the people who can do something with it is clearly such a flawed system. Much better to complain about it on the forums where it is unlikely to get noticed by anyone who can actually address your issues.
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    (Original post by shadowdweller)
    It's more like 'Please give feedback on mod issues to the mod team'. If you want to give feedback with examples, nothing to stop you doing so in AAM.

    But you're right, giving the feedback directly to the people who can do something with it is clearly such a flawed system. Much better to complain about it on the forums where it is unlikely to get noticed by anyone who can actually address your issues.
    If I'm arguing to improve transparency, surely it's important to get community feedback making feedback to just the mod team a complete and utter waste of time?

    I'm not talking about feedback directly related to the card :facepalm:, I'm talking about the conclusions of AAM discussions, which would be useful for the community to see. So no need for the jumped up attitude, because currently you guys have no leg to stand on as your success rate is impossibly high showing that the system is completely skewed, yet you're arguing no changes need to be made. That doesn't sound broken in the slightest :lol:
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    (Original post by geoking)
    I'm a manager in a multi-million pound organisation And I dare not think about where you work if you are able to say with a straight face that accountability and transparency are not needed. I think that's the real difference here! :lol:
    If you do not like the moderation or the level of transparency then leave the site ... As a dissatisfied customer I am sure that is your best option ... Given your current role I doubt if you are providing much revenue ... The adverts are not really aimed at you
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    (Original post by geoking)
    If I'm arguing to improve transparency, surely it's important to get community feedback making feedback to just the mod team a complete and utter waste of time?

    I'm not talking about feedback directly related to the card :facepalm: So no need for the jumped up attitude, because currently you guys have no leg to stand on as your success rate is impossibly high showing that the system is completely skewed.
    I'm not sure there's any real benefit to it. Stats will be fairly meaningless without some kind of context, and there are too many variables involved it it for them to be as simple as 'oh, the modding is fine' or 'lol, look how awful the mods are', which is what you seem to be wanting.

    I didn't say you were. But the issue of transparency is also something that would have to be addressed to the CT, if anything is to come of it.
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    (Original post by TenOfThem)
    If you do not like the moderation or the level of transparency then leave the site ... As a dissatisfied customer I am sure that is your best option ... Given your current role I doubt if you are providing much revenue ... The adverts are not really aimed at you
    I doubt the adverts are based on hits. But saying "leave" is just denial.

    "Hey, we have a part of the site where you can suggest improvements! But if you make a suggestion and back it up with facts you can **** OFF"

    Or how about the moderation team takes some constructive criticism and works to make the site better? Insane idea!

    (Original post by shadowdweller)
    I'm not sure there's any real benefit to it. Stats will be fairly meaningless without some kind of context, and there are too many variables involved it it for them to be as simple as 'oh, the modding is fine' or 'lol, look how awful the mods are', which is what you seem to be wanting.

    I didn't say you were. But the issue of transparency is also something that would have to be addressed to the CT, if anything is to come of it.
    1) The moderation clearly has a problem because your success rate is too high. That can't be argued, though I'm sure you'll try.

    2) Make the stats as complex as you feel is needed. If it makes the moderation more transparent and accountable, which tends to make services better, then how on earth is this a bad thing?

    It's quite woeful that you lot can't see the benefit of being able to monitor the moderation service. As I said it would allow you to see trends and where the site could be improved e.g. captcha for spam. Here's a question - would those statistics make the moderation worse? If the answer is 'no' then why are you lot all so vehemently against it? :holmes:
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    (Original post by geoking)
    I doubt the adverts are based on hits. But saying "leave" is just denial.

    "Hey, we have a part of the site where you can suggest improvements! But if you make a suggestion and back it up with facts you can **** OFF"

    Or how about the moderation team takes some constructive criticism and works to make the site better? Insane idea!
    Your opinion is that the site would work better

    My opinion is that it would not

    I get full feedback on any report I make and, on the couple of occasions that I have been issued warnings I have had a full discussion as to the reasons and, in one case a removal of the warning

    That is the level of accountability I need ... Why would any other feedback be of use ... Apart from some general "accountability is good" chat you have given no reason why your suggestion would improve this site
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    (Original post by geoking)
    Or how about the moderation team takes some constructive criticism and works to make the site better? Insane idea!
    But how does it make it better?

    Yes, transparency is fine but then what? What does it actually do?

    I've been here a while and I'm struggling to see what it would actually create, other than more abuse to hurl at the mods.

    Just pure statistics, like you're advocating, wouldn't show anything. Analogy: one week, 20 yellow cards are given out in Premier league matches. The next week, 13 are given out. Does that change inherently show something has changed with the referees? I don't think so. Nor would most people. So why do you think it would?

    I'm not having a dig, I'm genuinely asking. What do you think those stats are going to show?
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    (Original post by TenOfThem)
    Your opinion is that the site would work better

    My opinion is that it would not

    I get full feedback on any report I make and, on the couple of occasions that I have been issued warnings I have had a full discussion as to the reasons and, in one case a removal of the warning

    That is the level of accountability I need ... Why would any other feedback be of use ... Apart from some general "accountability is good" chat you have given no reason why your suggestion would improve this site
    I bothered to give an explanation as to why it would work better, care to share your thoughts because "no" isn't an explanation.

    (Original post by Drewski)
    But how does it make it better?

    Yes, transparency is fine but then what? What does it actually do?

    I've been here a while and I'm struggling to see what it would actually create, other than more abuse to hurl at the mods.

    Just pure statistics, like you're advocating, wouldn't show anything. Analogy: one week, 20 yellow cards are given out in Premier league matches. The next week, 13 are given out. Does that change inherently show something has changed with the referees? I don't think so. Nor would most people. So why do you think it would?

    I'm not having a dig, I'm genuinely asking. What do you think those stats are going to show?
    Read the first post I made maybe?

    Also the stats can be as complex as needed - release the reason for the card if need be, the comment that went with it etc. I don't see why people are limiting the idea to just the stats rather than thinking that expanding on it could also be done....
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    (Original post by geoking)
    Please explain how on earth that is possible. Free to give examples, but I can't because if I say "I was warned for X, this would be beneficial for other users to see" *bam* blue card. :facepalm:

    To summarise there have been two incidents in which I was moderated yet there was nothing in the rules against what I said, and it came down heavily on moderator subjectivity. Incidents like that need to be minimised, and one way to do that would be to have a monthly summary on cards issued and reasons why. Plus by showing the hilariously impossible success rate of cards, this would highlight how when challenged, the moderators need to be more open minded.

    CT needs to read this thread. The fact that the moderation is arguing against transparency and accountability is nothing short of laughable.
    Until the changeover in mods some months back, my card rate was somewhere around 50% of cards/reversals. At one point I had more reversals than cards. This was clearly an unaccceptable situation for the forum at large. By extension, does this mean that half of all cards are wrongly issued?

    I agree, though that a lot of cards are down to a moderator misunderstanding, or a highly subjective mod opinion, and are almost impossible to reverse.
 
 
 
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