Are the Tories going too far? Watch

PopaPork
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#61
Report 4 years ago
#61
[QUOTE=Al-farhan;54548447]
(Original post by PopaPork)

You are having a laugh right?
Well you always do, so it shouldn't be even asked.
What do you think this will do about extremists, the mosque has been closed but their extreme views still exist and even proven:
''look this is what we have been saying this is a war on us a war on islam, where have the moderates taken you?! ''....etc etc This will play sweetly into the hands of extremists and they will say what they have been saying all along is true. It will turn more to the extremists than doing the opposite. Well that could be her original intent since contards are well knowing for lies and scheming the other day they were allying with the EDL!!

Also what would you know about what mosques have done?! Jack sh!t
Extremists rarely go to mosques they prefer their chat rooms and small group meetings.
So if this is a step to curb extremism and fight it then it has failed before it's even enacted.
No I'm not having a laugh

Don't care about the extremist opinions but it seems you do

But your arguments seems to be don't take on the extremest as other muslims won't like this and become extremists as well

That sound like a threat to me or worse simple appeasement
0
reply
Al-farhan
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#62
Report 4 years ago
#62
[QUOTE=PopaPork;54548525]
(Original post by Al-farhan)

No I'm not having a laugh

Don't care about the extremist opinions but it seems you do

But your arguments seems to be don't take on the extremest as other muslims won't like this and become extremists as well

That sound like a threat to me or worse simple appeasement
Well my friend you do have dire comprehension skills.
Targeting a section of the population for their faith and closing down their places of worship is not the answer, nor is saying the above any form of appeasement.
This is the solution of someone who has no idea (and it is quiet evident) of how to deal with the situation. We have dealt with extremists and know how to deal, silence and oppose them far more successfully than TM.
0
reply
Comeback
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#63
Report 4 years ago
#63
(Original post by Rakas21)
Pressure must be put on the Muslim community not to attend these speeches by radical Imans, this is one way to do that.

Frankly i'd stop them coming in the country but people like free speech.
We should probably draw a distinction here,

I think what most people mean by free speech is having an opinion and being able to express it. That's something I totally agree with and think most tolerant people should too.

However, expression and indoctrination/manipulation/social control are very different things.

What is happening with these communities is 'extreme' fundamentalist views are being indoctrinated onto vulnerable people by these Islamists, and 'free speech' is something people with these views are trying to hide behind to avoid persecution. That's not right at all (in my opinion).

It's a grey area of course (when does expression become teaching, for all expression can influence people?) but the line has to be drawn somewhere.
0
reply
Thoth's World
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#64
Report 4 years ago
#64
[QUOTE=PopaPork;54548333]
(Original post by Troytheboy)

You need to pop onto the thread 'what do you think of' where we have a muslim telling me I can be gay but have to accept responsibility for this when I am killed for being in a loving relationship

Now where do you think he learns this intolerance of me?

No tell me why should I make any effort to get this included in our society

In his case the Sharia law but not all Muslims follow this extreme regulation. The extremist get coverage too much, there are plenty of fully functioning members of society who are Muslim in Britain. For example on that thread: Biomed states You're just embarrassing the whole Muslim community now. I just read out to my Muslim friend what you said and his reply was this "Please don't judge all of us Muslims based on this idiot"

When the skinheads were around in the late 1900's, not all white people were racist.
0
reply
MindTheGaps
Badges: 17
#65
Report 4 years ago
#65
(Original post by Comeback)
We should probably draw a distinction here,

I think what most people mean by free speech is having an opinion and being able to express it. That's something I totally agree with and think most tolerant people should too.

However, expression and indoctrination/manipulation/social control are very different things.

What is happening with these communities is 'extreme' fundamentalist views are being indoctrinated onto vulnerable people by these Islamists, and 'free speech' is something people with these views are trying to hide behind to avoid persecution. That's not right at all (in my opinion).

It's a grey area of course (when does expression become teaching, for all expression can influence people?) but the line has to be drawn somewhere.
Define extreme.

Freedom to espouse only mainstream opinions is not freedom of speech. Banning views because you're worried 'vulnerable' people may agree with them is something totalitarian regimes have been doing since the dawn of time. Influencing people is not a crime, and if they 'hide behind' free speech to avoid persecution then, well, that's sort of the point of having it...

Now to clarify I think Islamists are ridiculous people, but if we need to start banning speakers to win an argument with people who want to institute a racist, misogynist, oppressive, medieval state that doesn't say much for us does it? Moreover, we betray the liberal western values we purport to defend.
0
reply
Comeback
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#66
Report 4 years ago
#66
(Original post by Rinsed)
Define extreme.

Freedom to espouse only mainstream opinions is not freedom of speech. Banning views because you're worried 'vulnerable' people may agree with them is something totalitarian regimes have been doing since the dawn of time. Influencing people is not a crime, and if they 'hide behind' free speech to avoid persecution then, well, that's sort of the point of having it...

Now to clarify I think Islamists are ridiculous people, but if we need to start banning speakers to win an argument with people who want to institute a racist, misogynist, oppressive, medieval state that doesn't say much for us does it? Moreover, we betray the liberal western values we purport to defend.
Influence is not the same as indoctrination in the slightest.

If you reread my post you will see I have no problem with people holding 'extreme' views or expressing them. By 'extreme' I mean non-mainstream. What I see as the issue is this dogmatic approach to brainwashing people (you can do this through liberal views too, it's the method I'm objecting to!).

If people want to institute a 'racist, misogynist, oppressive, medieval state' then that's their desire, but they should not be allowed to force people to hold the same opinions. That is what they are doing with child soldiers in Africa and young girls in Syria, and...in a more subtle, careful way, to young people even in countries such as ours. People in a vulnerable position are being exploited beyond the point of mere 'influence'.

In order to have a liberal society with a range of views (both mainstream and 'extreme') we must create and defend an environment that allows these views to be safeguarded from manipulation. Having extreme views is not the same as forcing one's views onto another.

Totalitarian regimes have NEVER been worried about vulnerable people, they love vulnerable people as they can be manipulated. Strong people? Educated people? Now that's something they're worried about...

Your argument in bold I agree with, perhaps I am not articulating my views clearly as it seems you think I'm on the opposite side of the argument.
0
reply
PopaPork
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#67
Report 4 years ago
#67
(Original post by Al-farhan)

Well my friend you do have dire comprehension skills.
Targeting a section of the population for their faith and closing down their places of worship is not the answer, nor is saying the above any form of appeasement.
This is the solution of someone who has no idea (and it is quiet evident) of how to deal with the situation. We have dealt with extremists and know how to deal, silence and oppose them far more successfully than TM.
No one is targeting them for their faith (I notice you are pushing the extremist line here for them). They are being targeted for failing to control extremist speakers.
0
reply
Skip_Snip
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#68
Report 4 years ago
#68
(Original post by PopaPork)
No one is targeting them for their faith (I notice you are pushing the extremist line here for them). They are being targeted for failing to control extremist speakers.
Why do you keep quoting yourself?
0
reply
PopaPork
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#69
Report 4 years ago
#69
(Original post by Skip_Snip)
Why do you keep quoting yourself?


copy error quoting !
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Would you turn to a teacher if you were being bullied?

Yes (9)
20.93%
No (34)
79.07%

Watched Threads

View All