Rights of the father. Watch

garfeeled
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#61
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#61
(Original post by TheInformer)
The Father should have a right to "walk away" emotionally but I feel child support is necessary unless the Mother earns a decent wage and can comfortably afford to raise the child "properly".

The issue many men have with child support is that often, the money the Father gives is not used on things for the child. I don't think many Fathers would have a problem giving money solely to their child, it's when their ex-partner is using the money to buy handbags, shoes and fund nights out (end cliche).

In addition, if the Mother receives a large amount of child support, she may quit working as she doesn't need to, costing the tax payer money.

In summary, I support compulsory child support, as long as the money is used solely on the child and the amount is "realistic" for the Father being able to afford.
i think that was fair. i was saying it before (not sure if possible) but a special credit card that kept track of what each thing was spent on.
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limetang
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#62
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#62
(Original post by DiddyDec)
It is simple, wear condom.
Condoms which are 85% effective as means of contraception.
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DiddyDec
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#63
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#63
(Original post by limetang)
Condoms which are 85% effective as means of contraception.
Actually the correct figure is 98% if used correctly.
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limetang
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#64
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#64
(Original post by DiddyDec)
Actually the correct figure is 98% if used correctly.
True, but people don't always use it correctly, hence my figure.
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Wade-
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#65
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In my view the solution is simple. When a woman becomes pregnant she tells the father and he then decides how he feels about it, if he wants the baby and so does the woman then happy days. If she doesn't but he does then she can abort the baby because there really isn't a way of legally giving a man a vote on that. If she wants the baby but he doesn't then he should be perfectly at liberty to tell her and walk away and have no involvement in the child's life; the woman can decide from there whether to keep it or not.

This seems the only fair system because as it stands women hold all the cards when it comes to having children


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limetang
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#66
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#66
(Original post by Wade-)
In my view the solution is simple. When a woman becomes pregnant she tells the father and he then decides how he feels about it, if he wants the baby and so does the woman then happy days. If she doesn't but he does then she can abort the baby because there really isn't a way of legally giving a man a vote on that. If she wants the baby but he doesn't then he should be perfectly at liberty to tell her and walk away and have no involvement in the child's life; the woman can decide from there whether to keep it or not.

This seems the only fair system because as it stands women hold all the cards when it comes to having children


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No proposal is going to be completely fair simply because biological differences ARE there and there isn't much we can do about them, but to my mind this is the fairest proposal we can come up with.

The problem lies a great deal with the fact that when it comes to sex we seem to view it as something a man does to a woman. We don't view women as active participants in it, which is shown in the way people word themselves in things like this "he got me pregnant", the woman didn't really have much to do with the whole thing, she may not have even been in the room when it happened.
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Wade-
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#67
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(Original post by limetang)
No proposal is going to be completely fair simply because biological differences ARE there and there isn't much we can do about them, but to my mind this is the fairest proposal we can come up with.

The problem lies a great deal with the fact that when it comes to sex we seem to view it as something a man does to a woman. We don't view women as active participants in it, which is shown in the way people word themselves in things like this "he got me pregnant", the woman didn't really have much to do with the whole thing, she may not have even been in the room when it happened.
Yeah of course the biological differences make it an impossible area. You couldn't make a law that says a future mother and father have a 50/50 say in abortions because if they disagree who wins and it would be quite unfair for a man to force a woman into having a child if she doesn't want to. That's why in my view what I suggested seems like the best option because at least the father gets some say that has to be taken seriously


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DorianGrayism
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#68
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#68
(Original post by Wade-)
In my view the solution is simple. When a woman becomes pregnant she tells the father and he then decides how he feels about it, if he wants the baby and so does the woman then happy days. If she doesn't but he does then she can abort the baby because there really isn't a way of legally giving a man a vote on that. If she wants the baby but he doesn't then he should be perfectly at liberty to tell her and walk away and have no involvement in the child's life; the woman can decide from there whether to keep it or not.

This seems the only fair system because as it stands women hold all the cards when it comes to having children


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Wear a condom or ..... just don't have sex.
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Wade-
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#69
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#69
(Original post by DorianGrayism)
Wear a condom or ..... just don't have sex.
Why is the burden on the man?


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DorianGrayism
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#70
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#70
(Original post by Wade-)
Why is the burden on the man?


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Who says the Burden is on the man?

The burden of the child is on both of you since both of you have to have sex.

It is a complete lie to suggest that women hold all of the cards.
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Wade-
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#71
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#71
(Original post by DorianGrayism)
Who says the Burden is on the man?

The burden of the child is on both of you since both of you have to have sex.

It is a complete lie to suggest that women hold all of the cards.
By saying to him well if you don't want a baby wear a condom you're putting the burden on him. If you spun that around you'd essentially justify banning abortion. How is it fair that we have a system whereby a woman can opt out of having a child by having an abortion but a man has no choice?

From the moment a woman becomes pregnant she has full control that's undeniable.


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German123
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#72
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#72
That would be a tricky one.
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DorianGrayism
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#73
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#73
(Original post by Wade-)
By saying to him well if you don't want a baby wear a condom you're putting the burden on him. If you spun that around you'd essentially justify banning abortion.
Well, we are talking about men.

If a woman was talking about getting out their responsibilities as a parent then I would say that they should be on the Pill or etc.


(Original post by Wade-)
How is it fair that we have a system whereby a woman can opt out of having a child by having an abortion but a man has no choice?

From the moment a woman becomes pregnant she has full control that's undeniable.
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A man has a choice. He can choose not have sex or wear contraception. This seems to be something that you want to ignore.

Abortion has nothing to do with a man. Woman don't have to carry out a pregnancy if they do not wish since Pregnancy can kill them.
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Wade-
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#74
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(Original post by DorianGrayism)
Well, we are talking about men.

If a woman was talking about getting out their responsibilities as a parent then I would say that they should be on the Pill or etc.

A man has a choice. He can choose not have sex or wear contraception. This seems to be something that you want to ignore.

Abortion has nothing to do with a man. Woman don't have to carry out a pregnancy if they do not wish since Pregnancy can kill them.
Yes I'm aware those are options, what you're ignoring is that post conception the woman is the only one with the power to get out of pregnancy, a man is at her mercy.

What a ridiculous thing to say, you risk dying every day






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dyslexicvegie
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#75
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#75
How could u practically enforce mens rights over a pregnancy?

I agree it seems unfair that a man is "at the mercy" of the women who he has got pregnant. There is not much room for compromise, you cant have half an abortion!

The only workable system is the one we have, where its a woman's decision only. There is no perfect solution.
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Wade-
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#76
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#76
(Original post by dyslexicvegie)
How could u practically enforce mens rights over a pregnancy?

I agree it seems unfair that a man is "at the mercy" of the women who he has got pregnant. There is not much room for compromise, you cant have half an abortion!

The only workable system is the one we have, where its a woman's decision only. There is no perfect solution.
I suggest you read my earlier post where I said that the decision to have an abortion can only be made by a woman but a way to give men an equal right in the decision to have a child is to give them the option of removing themselves from the child's life


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dyslexicvegie
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#77
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#77
(Original post by Wade-)
I suggest you read my earlier post where I said that the decision to have an abortion can only be made by a woman but a way to give men an equal right in the decision to have a child is to give them the option of removing themselves from the child's life


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Are yes lots and lots of fatherless kids in poverty - that's the perfect solution!

On a more serious note: (hypothetically) Guys out there, is it really so bad having to support your own child?
Yes it would have been best to plan it, but if you are going to feel good about throwing money at anyone, surely your own child would be worthy?
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Wade-
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#78
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#78
(Original post by dyslexicvegie)
Are yes lots and lots of fatherless kids in poverty - that's the perfect solution!

On a more serious note: (hypothetically) Guys out there, is it really so bad having to support your own child?
Yes it would have been best to plan it, but if you are going to feel good about throwing money at anyone, surely your own child would be worthy?
But then if the child grows up in poverty it's the fault of the mother. She would have been made aware that she was going to have to fund the child by herself and continued with the pregnancy anyway.

Why should a man be forced into the burden of a child when a woman isn't?


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dyslexicvegie
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#79
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#79
(Original post by Wade-)
But then if the child grows up in poverty it's the fault of the mother. She would have been made aware that she was going to have to fund the child by herself and continued with the pregnancy anyway.

Why should a man be forced into the burden of a child when a woman isn't?


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No one knows what there financial situation is going to be in years to come. (redundancy, financial crisis, ill health) A child is less of a 'burden' is that 'burden' is shared between two parents. Would you really feel guilt free if you let a women bring up the child you both created in financial hardship, meaning that child had less opportunities in life, when you could have helped?

A second point. Abortion is not always the easiest 'get out clause'. For some women it is not an option. I am pro-choice but for some women family pressers, religion, being of an age where this may be there last chance to ever have a baby or just the way they are brought up, means that an abortion is not an option or emotionally damaging when it doesn't need to be. It's also doesn't sound like a pleasant presager.
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DorianGrayism
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#80
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#80
(Original post by Wade-)
Yes I'm aware those are options, what you're ignoring is that post conception the woman is the only one with the power to get out of pregnancy, a man is at her mercy.
I am not ignoring it. I have already stated that Pregnancy has nothing to do with the man.

Pregnancy is solely the responsibility of the woman. Men do not pay for pregnancy, do not take the health risks associated with pregnancy and are not permanently changed by it.

It is your fault if you are at her mercy. You shouldn't have had sex.

(Original post by Wade-)
What a ridiculous thing to say, you risk dying every day
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Sorry, but being Pregnant is not the same risk as everyday life.

That is why there are multiple women's hospitals dotted around the country that are specifically designed to lower the risk of death and injury as a result of pregnancy.

It isn't like a stroll in the park like you are suggesting.
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