Do you think Stalin was really a dictator? Watch

ModYom
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#61
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#61
(Original post by templardom)
A non aggression pact between families is an expression of alliance in the very best sense of the word. They agree not to fight each other . is this not allying even if it sounds different in empty diplomatic speak ?
NO, it is not.
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Aj12
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#62
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#62
(Original post by ModYom)
They only raped Nazi women after entering Berlin, hardly that big a crime.
They raped indiscriminately and on a mass scale. Even if they had just been raping Nazi women (How would the average red army troops even be able to tell that? They weren't asking first.) that would not make it right. Rape can never be justified or explained away. You don't defeat evil by becoming it.
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templardom
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#63
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Heaven help us all that numbers should in any way dilute the seriousness of the taking of human life. It sounds like psychopathic language to me. One single killing of one single person outside self defence is cowardly homicide whether you are wearing medals or not. In an attempt to reconcile Christianity with fighting monks, despite the Muslim aggression, Bernard of Clairvaux wrote a very precise treatise on killing which apart from self defence, required the mind to be clear of hatred. Even then, all conflicts of these nature are intrinsically evil on both sides and however long it takes, differences can be reconciled. Just putting an ear to the Persian/Western scenario is enough to show that this is to the benefit of all. Were it left to others millions would have perished on either side of the divide. The sort of slaughter and sheer filth that we are seeing in the Middle East and Africa is not just the product of sick minds, but the weakness of the supporting ideology which has the strength but not the will to disable the promoters from inciting the ignorant masses. If this weakness is addressed with genuine embrace of the positive aspects of the faiths, none of this would feed the military industries.
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ModYom
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#64
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#64
(Original post by Aj12)
They raped indiscriminately and on a mass scale. Even if they had just been raping Nazi women (How would the average red army troops even be able to tell that? They weren't asking first.) that would not make it right. Rape can never be justified or explained away. You don't defeat evil by becoming it.
But these women supported the Nazi government, or at least did nothing to stop it. Hence, they are culpable and should not be let of the hook lightly, just because they were women. Most German men were shot, so you can say that these women were far less harshly treated. And how about all the Soviet women that were raped by the German army - why aren't you complaining about that - or are you some kind of secret Nazi?
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Aj12
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#65
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#65
(Original post by ModYom)
But these women supported the Nazi government, or at least did nothing to stop it. Hence, they are culpable and should not be let of the hook lightly, just because they were women. Most German men were shot, so you can say that these women were far less harshly treated. And how about all the Soviet women that were raped by the German army - why aren't you complaining about that - or are you some kind of secret Nazi?
And I would say summarily executing men just because they lived in Germany is not acceptable either. Regardless if being raped is better, that does not make it ok. The Red Army should be held to account for the crimes it committed in Germany. If a crime has been committed then there should be a trial and reasonable punishments meted out, not rape.

That is simple whataboutery. We are discussing the Red Army, not the German. Obviously they too should be held accountable for the crimes they committed. The Nazi's did disgusting things in Eastern Europe and Russia, that does not justify treatment in kind.

It is frankly bizarre that you think rape or summary execution is a just punishment for anything.
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ModYom
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#66
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ok, so what punishments should have been given for Nazi collaboraters and soldiers?
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Aj12
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#67
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(Original post by ModYom)
ok, so what punishments should have been given for Nazi collaboraters and soldiers?
Anything from bans from working in governmrnt to life in prison. Personally I don't believe in the death penalty but that too was an option after a trial back then. This is Aj ideal world of course, given the levels of collaboration the allies quickly realised punishing all nazis and those involved was impossible anf impractical.

All better than raping people indiscriminately, hell there were reports of people freed from.prison camps being raped.


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templardom
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#68
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[QUOTE=ModYom;54634393]NO, it is not.[/QUOTE
Any form of agreement between interested party that affects a third party is an alliance if it is inflexible - not meaning conditional. Real politics has little to do with interpretation of words. Franco has been accepted as having allied with Germany and indeed he let them in to control practically every aspect of Spanish life including the media. Also the Italians who bombarded Gibraltar and blew up ships in the Rock´s harbour from Algeciras in full occupation - so much for non aggression ! The authorities stated that they did not ally, but agreed not to fight each other. In fact a non aggression treaty in the guise of neutrality. Neutrals do not allow military from a camp at war with others to move in. Nobody can or tries to deny that there was no alliance. In fact, it could not be anything other than that whatever immature diplomatic verbiage may suggest.
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DaniilKaya
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#69
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#69
(Original post by Aj12)
Would of thought you'd be worried about the mass rapes committed by the red army.Posted from TSR Mobile
soviets raped germans. US raped 10,000 okinawians, philipines, vietnams. Uk and French forces also raped women germans.

Nazis raped Russians, polish, belorussians, armenians, bulgarians and etc

During war everyone rapes and kills, there is nothing astonishing about it.

What is interesting is that western media and historians tries to create this Dogma of Soviets being evil in order to hide the great achievement of Red Army during the world war 2
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MatureStudent36
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#70
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#70
(Original post by DaniilKaya)
[COLOR=#505050]

What is interesting is that western media and historians tries to create this Dogma of Soviets being evil in order to hide the great achievement of Red Army during the world war 2
Do you really believe that?

I've never come across any competent historian make any such claim.

The red army was prolific in raping it's way through Germany.
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Aj12
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#71
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#71
(Original post by DaniilKaya)
soviets raped germans. US raped 10,000 okinawians, philipines, vietnams. Uk and French forces also raped women germans.

Nazis raped Russians, polish, belorussians, armenians, bulgarians and etc

During war everyone rapes and kills, there is nothing astonishing about it.

What is interesting is that western media and historians tries to create this Dogma of Soviets being evil in order to hide the great achievement of Red Army during the world war 2
What the Red Army did dwarfs in scale anything committed by the Allies in that war. In Berlin alone estimates are over 100,000 rapes. They were only outdone by the Nazi's. No one can deny the sacrifices the USSR made and its contribution to winning the war. I've never come across any competent history of the war that attempts to downsize what the Red army did. However this must be tempered with consideration of many of the crimes committed by the Soviets.
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DaniilKaya
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#72
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#72
(Original post by Aj12)
What the Red Army did dwarfs in scale anything committed by the Allies in that war. In Berlin alone estimates are over 100,000 rapes. They were only outdone by the Nazi's. No one can deny the sacrifices the USSR made and its contribution to winning the war. I've never come across any competent history of the war that attempts to downsize what the Red army did. However this must be tempered with consideration of many of the crimes committed by the Soviets.
If you want to take consideration of the crimes committed by the soviets, why don't you(Western Media) take into account the French , Uk and American crimes??

I said that because recently, BBC, before May 9th decided to create this report about "The Rape of Berlin"
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DaniilKaya
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#73
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#73
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Do you really believe that?

I've never come across any competent historian make any such claim.

The red army was prolific in raping it's way through Germany.
Anyway the rape case is the claim of Western media and historians during COLD WAR.

Which gives us a clue if it is true or not
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earthworm
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#74
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Forced labour camps in Siberia for etnic poles and political dissidents seem a bit dictatoriah..
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zippity.doodah
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#75
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how was stalin *not* a dictator?! :| how is this even a question? literally - everything a dictator would do, he did. just because he was left wing, doesn't make him any more moral. in fact, him being left wing (to a communist extreme) lead to even more deaths than otherwise!
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MatureStudent36
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#76
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(Original post by DaniilKaya)
If you want to take consideration of the crimes committed by the soviets, why don't you(Western Media) take into account the French , Uk and American crimes??
They never took place anywhere near the same scale as the Russian rapes.... The allied armies also left the countries they liberated. It took nearly 45 years for the Russian army to go back to its start lines of 38. (I would've said 39 but you may have forgotten that russia invaded Finland and Poland )
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MatureStudent36
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#77
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(Original post by DaniilKaya)
Anyway the rape case is the claim of Western media and historians during COLD WAR.

Which gives us a clue if it is true or not
The rape cases were well known documented facts.

Youre like a creationist aren't you. You ignore facts to suit your argument.
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DaniilKaya
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#78
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#78
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
The rape cases were well known documented facts.

Youre like a creationist aren't you. You ignore facts to suit your argument.
well the initial creationists are western historians so.... oh well irony

this well known documented facts are recognized by the majority of the world?
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earthworm
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#79
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He actually had the grandmother of one of my friends in a GULAG the grandmas sister starved to death. Remember that these events are in living memory and to question whether someone who did these things was a dictator could be seen as an affront to their suffering.
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Bohemond I
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#80
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Obviously he was.
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