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    (Original post by yo radical one)
    I don't particularly like Islam, but it's astonishing the way Theresa May uses this sort of hysterical fear of the existential enemy (in this case 'Islamism') not simply to justify these policies, but to create a state of affairs where large numbers people are actually demanding their rights be given away in the name of security.
    I'm not even a defender of religion really. I'd support banning faith schools. But Emmanuel Goldstein :indiff:
    (Original post by felamaslen)
    Free speech doesn't extend to the freedom to be a traitor.
    What does that even mean? Were traitors to soviet "communism" bad people? Was Stalin justified in purging the "traitors"?

    Traitor doesn't mean anything other than being an enemy of the state. Even if that state is a totalitarian murderous regime. There is no moral component in classifying someone a traitor. I would have thought you of all people would have understood that.

    Am I a traitor for sticking an anarchist flag on my bedroom window?
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Oh well, if people are throwing their toys out of the pram because they don't agree with the result we must have voted the wrong way. There's simply no other explanation.

    Lest we forget, Miliband was going to outlaw islamophobia.
    It isn't a right vs left issue. It's a Authoritarian vs libertarian issue.
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    (Original post by The Dictator)
    We need more freedom, not less. We fight tyranny with liberty and repression with expression. It is GOVERNMENT that created this situation in the first place, by fostering a climate of fear, suspicion and unwillingness to tell it like it is, promoting political correctness and cultural Marxism in our society. It's high time the government recognised our right to speak out against barbarism and break the mantra of multiculturalism. More government interference is not the answer.
    This. Six million times this. I'm fine with the stamping down on Islamofascism, but they mentioned they wanted to curb neo-nazism along with it, which surely means stamping down on those who talk out of line with multiculti and other "liberal" principles wrapped around equality and rainbows.

    The real people who should be shut down are the Marxist professors and media moguls destroying our childrens' mind and diluting our identity.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    "Britain is too “passively tolerant” and should not leave people to live their lives as they please as they please just because they obey the law, David Cameron has said."

    “For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone',” - David Cameron

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10246517.html

    What's going on? Even if you obey the law you are not aloud to express views or thoughts that fall out of what id decided by the state? Why did people vote for these guys? A core British value is freedom of speech and expression, well it is to me anyway.



    "Goebbels was in favor of free speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you’re really in favor of free speech, then you’re in favor of freedom of speech for precisely the views you despise. Otherwise, you’re not in favor of free speech.”
    How about the First Amendment. Just let people say whatever the hell they want to. If people don't want to listen to it then they can go listen somewhere else.

    I think we are too tolerant of Britain's censorship culture and laws.

    People who don't want to hear anything highly highly controversial can watch a soap or go to Disneyland.



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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    What does that even mean? Were traitors to soviet "communism" bad people? Was Stalin justified in purging the "traitors"?

    Traitor doesn't mean anything other than being an enemy of the state. Even if that state is a totalitarian murderous regime. There is no moral component in classifying someone a traitor. I would have thought you of all people would have understood that.

    Am I a traitor for sticking an anarchist flag on my bedroom window?
    "Traitors" in Soviet Russia were (mostly) good people, since the Soviet regime represented naked depravity.

    Maybe it would have been better for me to say "totalitarian" instead of "traitor", but they are synonymous in the UK and other civilised countries.

    As long as you are not a totalitarian and don't support violence in the name of your creed, you're not a traitor in my book.
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    (Original post by yo radical one)
    I don't particularly like Islam, but it's astonishing the way Theresa May uses this sort of hysterical fear of the existential enemy (in this case 'Islamism') not simply to justify these policies, but to create a state of affairs where large numbers people are actually demanding their rights be given away in the name of security.
    It belongs to a long and secure tradition of 'government by hysteria' though, which has been used in many other times and places. First, create a moral panic. Then declare it to be unsolvable emergency requiring totalitarianism and a brutal suppression of rights. Finally, direct this not just at the people originally claimed as the need for the emergency, but at everyone the government doesn't much like generally.

    Cameron has downloaded the Blair template, which was also very anti-liberal at times and at times even fascistic.
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    "Traitors" in Soviet Russia were (mostly) good people, since the Soviet regime represented naked depravity.

    Maybe it would have been better for me to say "totalitarian" instead of "traitor", but they are synonymous in the UK and other civilised countries.

    As long as you are not a totalitarian and don't support violence in the name of your creed, you're not a traitor in my book.
    But just to be clear, we already have anti-terrorist laws for when it's necessary. There's no reason to restrict freedom of speech to say things which disagree with the state (even religious things that disagree with the state).

    Also, 'naked depravity' doesn't really feel like the correct word at all for the Soviets. Cruel and ruthless yes, but depraved is the sort of word you apply to orgies, not states.
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    (Original post by lerjj)
    But just to be clear, we already have anti-terrorist laws for when it's necessary. There's no reason to restrict freedom of speech to say things which disagree with the state (even religious things that disagree with the state).

    Also, 'naked depravity' doesn't really feel like the correct word at all for the Soviets. Cruel and ruthless yes, but depraved is the sort of word you apply to orgies, not states.
    If you think an orgy is more depraved than a gulag, you are the one with the problem.

    Our anti-terrorist laws are just that: they don't consider the impact that non-violent extremists have on radicalising people. Polls have shown that 40% of British Muslims believe in Sharia law. That is depressing and worrying, and indicates that the state, if nobody else, needs to take a more active role in preventing the support for ideas which would destroy our centuries-old liberties.
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    If you think an orgy is more depraved than a gulag, you are the one with the problem.

    Our anti-terrorist laws are just that: they don't consider the impact that non-violent extremists have on radicalising people. Polls have shown that 40% of British Muslims believe in Sharia law. That is depressing and worrying, and indicates that the state, if nobody else, needs to take a more active role in preventing the support for ideas which would destroy our centuries-old liberties.
    Yes, by presenting a clearly better alternative. Not by arresting people who say that Sharia is a good idea.

    Also depraved means 'morally corrupt; perverted' which basically means it has a whole lot of sexual connotations that make it a really weird word to apply to a nation.
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    I bet all the no voters are now wondering why didn't I register to vote and vote anti-Tory. Well tough. Your going to feel what a corporate dystopia is like. Enjoy.
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    If you think an orgy is more depraved than a gulag, you are the one with the problem.

    Our anti-terrorist laws are just that: they don't consider the impact that non-violent extremists have on radicalising people. Polls have shown that 40% of British Muslims believe in Sharia law. That is depressing and worrying, and indicates that the state, if nobody else, needs to take a more active role in preventing the support for ideas which would destroy our centuries-old liberties.
    Your 40% statistic is the sort of wild thing the right wing media throw around, which is hard to interpret. What does that mean exactly? That they want non-Muslims to be under Shariah? Or just Muslims? Do they mean 100% Saudi-style Shariah, or some variant? Shariah courts already exist in the UK and some Muslims use them, mainly to settle civil disputes with other Muslims and in marriage, divorce and inheritance issues. Why is that so dangerous?

    Knee-jerk reaction is not useful as a guide to action and seeking to play the right wing tabloid/Daily Mail game is just pathetic.
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    I bet all the no voters are now wondering why didn't I register to vote and vote anti-Tory. Well tough. Your going to feel what a corporate dystopia is like. Enjoy.
    I know what you mean, but the truth is that the whole world has been part of a global corporatist experiment in extreme libertarian capitalism and constantly increasing inequality since the mid-80s, when the bankers and multinationals got together and had their tools Reagan and Thatcher execute the policy.

    Things have a way to go before it collapses totally, but so far the experiment is not looking promising for the future of the planet, or most of us.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I know what you mean, but the truth is that the whole world has been part of a global corporatist experiment in extreme libertarian capitalism and constantly increasing inequality since the mid-80s, when the bankers and multinationals got together and had their tools Reagan and Thatcher execute the policy.

    Things have a way to go before it collapses totally, but so far the experiment is not looking promising for the future of the planet, or most of us.
    You don't have to answer this but I put this question to you. Would you bring a Baby into the country we live in today?
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    :rofl:
    Okay since you think child birth is some what funny. Would you bring a child into this world Under Tory rule of course.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I know what you mean, but the truth is that the whole world has been part of a global corporatist experiment in extreme libertarian capitalism and constantly increasing inequality since the mid-80s, when the bankers and multinationals got together and had their tools Reagan and Thatcher execute the policy.

    Things have a way to go before it collapses totally, but so far the experiment is not looking promising for the future of the planet, or most of us.
    "extreme libertarian capitalism" - this so far removed from reality.
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    And she is. She is a very intelligent women. She is way above her peers.
    Yup.

    (Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)
    "extreme libertarian capitalism" - this so far removed from reality.
    Yup again.

    It's more libertarian capitalism when it benefits them though. Like socialism for them but the plebs must face the fierce reality of the markets. baiclaly whatever helps them collect all the wealth and then makes sure they keep the wealth. The neoliberal ideology and it's priests provide good moral justification for them being evil greedy *******s. They aren't goign to start endorsing left wing marxist economics are they?
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Britain is too passively tolerant, we allow radical Imans and people to protest in the name of ISIS or go on Muslim patrols.
    We also allow radical Christian reverends to march with BF, in the name of Christianity, or go on Christian patrols. Let's have some balance, please
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    (Original post by The_Internet)
    We also allow radical Christian reverends to march with BF, in the name of Christianity, or go on Christian patrols. Let's have some balance, please
    Christian patrols are something i've never seen.

    We should indeed clamp down on EDL types.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Christian patrols are something i've never seen.

    We should indeed clamp down on EDL types.
    Really?

    It was all over the news at one point:



    Granted, they were a response to the "Muslim patrol" but they still happened

    Somewhat recently



    Calling it "Muslim occupied East London" Nope. Not religiously aggravating at al!
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    (Original post by The_Internet)
    Really?

    It was all over the news at one point:



    Granted, they were a response to the "Muslim patrol" but they still happened

    Somewhat recently



    Calling it "Muslim occupied East London" Nope. Not religiously aggravating at al!
    Fair enough. Arrest them both.
 
 
 

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