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If Islam is a religion that opposes murder, then what's with all the killings? watch

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    (Original post by amjam441)
    . Also the prophet broke the pagan idols in the Kaaba because the Kaaba was originally for worshipping Allah (Abrahamic God) so that is the reason behind him destroying the pagan idols.
    the kabaa was only ever known and recorded as an arab pagan shrine ( both historically and locally) it has no reference to islamm whatsoever apart form what mohammed claimed. hence why he had to go to war to seize it.
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    (Original post by Reformed)
    the kabaa was only ever known and recorded as an arab pagan shrine ( both historically and locally) it has no reference to islamm whatsoever apart form what mohammed claimed. hence why he had to go to war to seize it.
    The prophet Abraham and his son i think ismael built it. Otherwise there is no reason that we would be facing it when we pray. This was built as the house of God and was later an arab pagan shrine.

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    (Original post by Hibzish)
    The prophet Abraham and his son i think ismael built it. Otherwise there is no reason that we would be facing it when we pray. This was built as the house of God and was later an arab pagan shrine.

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    the early muslims originally used to face jerusalem not mecca (qibla was changed later)- this is recorded even in islamic history - so your theory falls over.

    my point was it is only mohammed that ever claimed the kabaa to have been historically islamic whereas independant greek and roman historians only ever recorded it as a pagan shrine. mecca only becamae islamic after mohammed conquered it - that is the only reason you face it today
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    Where does Islam ever oppose murder? New to me, the Qur'an is full of teacings of murder of infidels.


    Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing..."
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    (Original post by Mattinfenwa)
    What I struggle to understand about the religion is that ISIS claim to be creating an Islamic state across Syria and Turkey and other countries in that region, they are doing so by killing and slaughtering innocent people and anyone that stands up to them. They say they do this in the name of Allah, yet the Quran states that murder is wrong.

    ISIS see the West and other Muslims in it as their enemies. The majority of Muslims have just as much to fear from ISIS as the West and rest of the world do. The point is that most Muslims interpret the Koran in a very different way to terrorists.

    It sounds odd to me because I know about these extremists trying to radicalise all these good and normal Muslims, yet somehow, even with all the praying they do and reading of the Quran they do, some will still become terrorists knowing full well that murder in their religion is wrong.

    In the Koran is says that those that die fighting for Allah will go to the best heaven. Of course most Muslims also use common sense and know that mass murder and rape, in the supposed name of Allah, is not likely to go down with Allah a merciful god.

    ISIS on the other hand seem to a) either believe their ridiculous stance or b) not believe it but use it as a tool to recruit foolish young men and women.

    Sorry if this didn't make too much sense, I just don't have enough time to write everything I felt like saying on this topic so I had to compact it all.

    I should probably apologise in advance if anything I have said turns out to be wrong and also in case anyone of the Islam religion is offended by this as from reading it back, it sounds a bit blunt to me.
    ISIS use Islam as an excuse for killing. The West use excuses such as "weapons of mass destruction" that were not real in Iraq and now Syria to justify intervention. The world is a place where stupid things can be justified. Look at the Nazis-they claimed they were defending themselves from Jews during the Holocuast, that they had to act to save Germany.

    Strictly in my personal view, when you actually look at what the media say it isn't true. Look what happened after Tunisia and all the criticism of Islam; then you think-Tunisia is a Muslim country and under attack. Makes you realise that all the people who say the Koran is responsible for the murders are very wrong really in my view.
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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    ISIS use Islam as an excuse for killing. The West use excuses such as "weapons of mass destruction" that were not real in Iraq and now Syria to justify intervention. The world is a place where stupid things can be justified. Look at the Nazis-they claimed they were defending themselves from Jews during the Holocuast, that they had to act to save Germany..
    WMD 'theory' and nazi theory have all been disproved and debunked by wider society - however islam has not been condemned by muslim society . it hasnt even been challenged in terms of its edicts that inspire musism accross the globe to commit acts of depravity (IS being jsut one such group) hence the global probelm with islam

    (Original post by i<3milkshake)

    Strictly in my personal view, when you actually look at what the media say it isn't true. Look what happened after Tunisia and all the criticism of Islam; then you think-Tunisia is a Muslim country and under attack. Makes you realise that all the people who say the Koran is responsible for the murders are very wrong really in my view.
    what do mean in reference to tunisia? tunisa suffered an islamic terrorist attack ( as various places in the world have). there is a root cause to them all and it rhymes with Mislam
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    (Original post by BoomCha!)
    Where does Islam ever oppose murder? New to me, the Qur'an is full of teacings of murder of infidels.


    Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing..."
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    These are verses that were revealed whilst war was taking place. You need to understand that verses in the Qur'an were revealed as things where happening.
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    (Original post by Xlxl23)
    These are verses that were revealed whilst war was taking place. You need to understand that verses in the Qur'an were revealed as things where happening today.
    the qurans verses were to be taken as timeless guidance. otherwise why were there verses on going on hajj pilgramage and covering woen up - what does any of that have to do with war?
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    Islam is so tangled that you had to make a thread about it.
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    (Original post by Namandi)

    Just get over the fact that many don't like your religion. Get. Over. It.
    Sorry the problem is I can't Get. Over. It. because that is how peaceful it is :yep:
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    Islam is more than ISIS. Schools oppose skirts above the knee but that doesn't stop people from coming in dressed like that anyway. Well religions set standards and not everyone, being human (a weak human, specifically) can meet those standards. Doesn't mean religion, including Islam, is pointless.
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    (Original post by SadLemon)
    Islam is so tangled that you had to make a thread about it.
    so tangled in violence
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    (Original post by Reformed)
    so tangled in violence
    Spoiler:
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    You have good people and bad people. The nature of all religions means that you can somehow justify many bad acts in the name of religion to give it some sort of legitimisation.

    It's not a religious issue; more so political with evil people being allowed to express themselves for a cause they feel too strongly about. Many ISIS fighters also act for the thrill or it, or because the other option is to act against them and endager their life. Others may not be bothered either way, but find they gain more so be supporting the organisation.

    We, with the benefit of being educated liberally, can criticise all the actions and rightly, we do. But the pinpointing of Islam and the backlash and lack of respect of those who follow the religion peacefully is a shame. Without tolerance, humans cannot progress. Thankfully, most people are still sensible enough to allow people to get out with their lives and believe in whatever religion they want. Whether one thinks their belief is stupid or not is irrelevant and should be kept to themselves. Freedom of speech should come with respect. Those that don't respect are simply immoral people, just as those with extremist beliefs are.
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    (Original post by ZolaCFC25)
    We, with the benefit of being educated liberally, can criticise all the actions and rightly, we do. But the pinpointing of Islam and the backlash and lack of respect of those who follow the religion peacefully is a shame. Without tolerance, humans cannot progress.
    I think there's a distinction to be made here. You may demand that people tolerate Muslims but Islam, like most religions, is very difficult to respect. This is what people need to realise: tolerance and respect are quite different things and to grant one is not necessarily to grant the other.

    If you were being fair, you would have to mention the concerted effort, from within the so-called moderate Muslim community, to stigmatise criticism of Islam by inventing a meaningless word like 'Islamophobia' - which is simultaneously an insult and a non-insult. An insult because it refers to dislike of Islam as a phobia, which is an irrational fear/dislike, whereas most people who criticise Islam have perfectly rational reasons for doing so. And a non-insult because it literally means a 'dislike of Islam', which is hardly an objectionable offence (although, of course, most of the public misunderstands it as the the dislike of Muslims as a group) - nobody would be shocked if you said that you don't like Communism or Nazism or libertarianism.

    Most Muslims, in my experience, take exceptional offence if you say that Islam has some pretty violent ideas in its scripture and try to make you out to be a bigot who doesn't understand the religion (because apparently you need to be born to Muslim parents to understand the religion) if you do that. I hope you can see why that might not be acceptable to people. That's the sort of manipulation and deliberate self-victimising that I and those who agree with me won't put up with.
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    (Original post by ZolaCFC25)
    Those that don't respect are simply immoral people, just as those with extremist beliefs are.
    Do you consider the stoning of adulterers an extremist belief? And is someone who doesn't respect that belief just as immoral as the person holding it?
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    (Original post by hs1var19)
    Sunni and Shia divisions. You get Christians and catholics but you don't see them shooting down each other.
    Catholics are christians moron
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    (Original post by Xlxl23)
    These are verses that were revealed whilst war was taking place. You need to understand that verses in the Qur'an were revealed as things where happening.
    So the quran isn't perfect timeless guidance from god revealed for all people at all times and all places, it's only relevant to 7th-century Arabia. That's exactly what I thought. Thanks for confirming.
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    (Original post by Reformed)
    WMD 'theory' and nazi theory have all been disproved and debunked by wider society - however islam has not been condemned by muslim society . it hasnt even been challenged in terms of its edicts that inspire musism accross the globe to commit acts of depravity (IS being jsut one such group) hence the global probelm with islam


    what do mean in reference to tunisia? tunisa suffered an islamic terrorist attack ( as various places in the world have). there is a root cause to them all and it rhymes with Mislam
    You raise a good point in terms of condemnation of views. I personally find is strange how it is always the West leading the fight against Islamic extremism. Why don't other Muslim nations make more of an effort? Some are busy trying to defend themselves and don't have the resources-the oil rich states do. Also, why don't people stop selling arms to these people and buying their oil? The West has a terrible record in doing the above as well mind-both selling arms and dealing with immoral regimes..

    My Tunisia point was that many Muslims and ISIS are completely different.
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    (Original post by Mattinfenwa)
    What I struggle to understand about the religion is that ISIS claim to be creating an Islamic state across Syria and Turkey and other countries in that region, they are doing so by killing and slaughtering innocent people and anyone that stands up to them. They say they do this in the name of Allah, yet the Quran states that murder is wrong.

    It sounds odd to me because I know about these extremists trying to radicalise all these good and normal Muslims, yet somehow, even with all the praying they do and reading of the Quran they do, some will still become terrorists knowing full well that murder in their religion is wrong.

    Sorry if this didn't make too much sense, I just don't have enough time to write everything I felt like saying on this topic so I had to compact it all.

    I should probably apologise in advance if anything I have said turns out to be wrong and also in case anyone of the Islam religion is offended by this as from reading it back, it sounds a bit blunt to me.
    Isis are not counted as muslims because they break the rule that no man has a right to take the life of another because Allah gave us life so only Allah can take it

    Isis claim to be muslims but they are just stupod people with no brains and take every islamic rule to the extreme

    What they do is wrong and I'd say 95% of muslims would agree with me
    The 5%who disagree with me are those who may have been brainwashed by isis propaganda



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