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Why is this considered transphobic? watch

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    (Original post by SophieBarlow87)
    It would actually be classed as homophobic. The strict definition of phobia is an irrational fear wherras most homophobic people arent actually scared of gay people
    The strict definition of "phobia" is an irrational fear, but more recently it has come to mean irrational, negative feelings towards a group of people, or a prejudice against them.

    But you're still not phobic of someone just because you disagree with them about who they are. Phobia has to involve some sort of dislike.
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    (Original post by Hopple)
    But, is there anything wrong with someone calling you the other sex? It's as wrong as someone seeing you have brown hair (for example, I don't know) and saying you have blonde hair. It's wrong insofar as it being incorrect, but I wouldn't be taking offence at it. Persistently saying it could become harassment, but the statement itself should not be hurtful unless the subject feels that there is something wrong with being the other gender or blonde, and then that's their issue to deal with.

    My reaction to "You're a woman/blonde" would be along the lines of "Okay, whatever". Or at least, that's what I feel it should be rather than being offended, because really, there isn't anything wrong with being a woman or blonde, is there? It's very different to someone actually attacking by saying "You're lazy" or "You're an idiot" which are bad.

    What would you actually do if someone called you a man? To go back to the original situation, how about if they turned down your request for a date saying you were a man?
    'Wrong'? Yes, they know it's not true. Offensive, that's debatable. I'd probably laugh it off since I know it's not true but it's still not nice. I understand what you're saying and no, it's not that big a deal but to a transsexual person it will be. It is still hurtful, not because there's anything wrong with being male or female, but essentially because you're either doing it to offend or because you know most people consider their gender a large fraction of who they are in whatever way. If I was told everyday I was 'the third sex', I'd be pissed off too since I know it's not true. There's nothing wrong with being the third sex, it's the fact I know I'm not.

    If someone called me a man I'd ignore them because I know it's not true but I'd have every right to be irritated, again, it doesn't matter that they're calling me male. It's that they're calling me something I'm not, it doesn't matter what that 'thing' is. If someone turned down my request for a date because they said I was a man, I'd take it as a lucky escape as I'm not saddled dating someone like that.
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    omg pls get a life this is killing me like go outside pls
    (Original post by jape)
    Damn. Maybe we were wrong. You've sure shown us.
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    (Original post by buckeybarnes)
    omg pls get a life this is killing me like go outside pls
    Another quality refutation of my factually backed-up points. It's clear to me now that you are right, look at all of your evidence.
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    (Original post by jape)
    Because you and your ilk are actively cooperating with a mental disorder, despite the obvious, objective proof that you're actually encouraging thousands of people to throw their lives down the toilet. Have you seen suicide rates for post-transition GID sufferers? Off the charts.

    Your attitude is murdering some of the most vulnerable people in our society, who need compassion and understanding, not encouragement. I won't stop going on about this until people recognise that something needs to change. And I don't blame the vast majority of people - but individuals like yourself, who actively encourage it, have blood on your hands.
    As times change so too must people. The world is becoming more accepting of things like being LGBT+, and it is ignorant and self-centred that you would consider an approach to life different from your as mentally deficient.

    Being transgender does not mean you have a mental disorder since by definition such is a state that causes, "significant distress or disability." and trans* people pursue gender reassignment surgeries to restore happiness and sober-mindedness- there is no way that this can be construe as a mental disorder and making presumptions like that can be immeasurably harmful.

    It is my firm belief that sexual and gender identity are more fluid than they have previously been presented, and bigotry and prejudice against the expression of this fluidity arises usually from either being close minded or commonly from devoutness to a religion (although people cherry-pick the writings they want to side with). Your inability to accept the human race as the diverse and ever changing population that it is concerns me and you can live in your monotonous and hateful world, as long as you don't cause others harm by doing so.

    Many trans* youth, Leelah Alcorn for example, commit suicide not as a result of their being transgender, but as a result of those around them not accepting this and taking actions against their pursuit of happiness and comfort. It is not being transgender and opting for gender reassignment surgery that causes trans* people to commit suicide, it is people with attitudes like yours, and I hope you can one day stop being so hateful

    PS- I am able to write answers to your posts I just can't be bothered a majority of the time because I actually have a life.
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    (Original post by jape)
    Another quality refutation of my factually backed-up points. It's clear to me now that you are right, look at all of your evidence.
    I provided a longer comment for your pleasure but I literally have no ****ing energy to debate this with you. Live your life as you like, even if that is in a narrow-minded and prejudiced way, just don't cause others harm by doing this, please. Keep opinions that might offend an entire demographic of people to yourself, or prepare to be hated. It's common sense and common decency.
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    (Original post by jape)
    Another quality refutation of my factually backed-up points. It's clear to me now that you are right, look at all of your evidence.
    I wouldn't be surprised if you were an advocate of throwing LGBT+ people in mental asylums to receive ice baths and electric shocks. If so, though, that'd about 10% of the worlds happy and healthy population, including me. Trans* people are happy in their pursuits of gender-reassignment and I don't think that it's your place to tell them what they can and can't do. Respect their autonomy.
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    (Original post by buckeybarnes)
    As times change so too must people. The world is becoming more accepting of things like being LGBT+, and it is ignorant and self-centred that you would consider an approach to life different from your as mentally deficient.

    Being transgender does not mean you have a mental disorder since by definition such is a state that causes, "significant distress or disability." and trans* people pursue gender reassignment surgeries to restore happiness and sober-mindedness- there is no way that this can be construe as a mental disorder and making presumptions like that can be immeasurably harmful.
    You're right about how transitioning makes one happy and sober-minded. That's why they're topping themselves left, right and centre I assume.

    It is my firm belief that sexual and gender identity are more fluid than they have previously been presented, and bigotry and prejudice against the expression of this fluidity arises usually from either being close minded or commonly from devoutness to a religion (although people cherry-pick the writings they want to side with).
    Well no offence but I can only assume your firm beliefs are baseless horse crap, because you've given no proof. You appear to have just decided, unilaterally, that this must be the case. If you were to bother to look, you'd find the evidence on the subject is actually ambiguous - you're perfectly capable of making a credible case in favour of some sort of gender spectrum. The fact that you haven't even tried is reason enough for everyone to consider your opinions as garbage.

    Your inability to accept the human race as the diverse and ever changing population that it is concerns me and you can live in your monotonous and hateful world, as long as you don't cause others harm by doing so.
    I accept that the human race is diverse. I'm not hateful. I just don't think that promoting mental disorders and condemning the most vulnerable in our society to misery and death to make ourselves feel good is a particularly just or worthwhile enterprise.

    Many trans* youth, Leelah Alcorn for example, commit suicide not as a result of their being transgender, but as a result of those around them not accepting this and taking actions against their pursuit of happiness and comfort. It is not being transgender and opting for gender reassignment surgery that causes trans* people to commit suicide, it is people with attitudes like yours, and I hope you can one day stop being so hateful
    Something about that asterisk cracks me up. I can't quite put my finger on what, but it's funny.

    Leelah Acorn committed suicide because she was unwell. I don't doubt that she probably recieved some hateful comments online, but so does everyone else. Not everyone kills themselves.

    It isn't my hatred that's killing people with GID, because I don't hate them. I pity them and I want to protect them.

    PS- I am able to write answers to your posts I just can't be bothered a majority of the time because I actually have a life.
    >I can't be bothered to ground my strong moral convictions in objective fact, because I'm too busy gossiping with my girlfriends about how many trans friends I have and how much I hate the patriarchy, lmao you sad little cis boy

    http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/srcstc.gif
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    (Original post by buckeybarnes)
    I provided a longer comment for your pleasure but I literally have no ****ing energy to debate this with you. Live your life as you like, even if that is in a narrow-minded and prejudiced way, just don't cause others harm by doing this, please. Keep opinions that might offend an entire demographic of people to yourself, or prepare to be hated. It's common sense and common decency.
    Then I'll be hated. But I'll be right, and I'll be able to live with myself because I won't be passively supporting the deaths of thousands of the unwell.

    (Original post by buckeybarnes)
    I wouldn't be surprised if you were an advocate of throwing LGBT+ people in mental asylums to receive ice baths and electric shocks. If so, though, that'd about 10% of the worlds happy and healthy population, including me. Trans* people are happy in their pursuits of gender-reassignment and I don't think that it's your place to tell them what they can and can't do. Respect their autonomy.
    First of all, it's 2%.

    Second of all, I take issue with being LGB and your attempts at smearing me by suggesting I do are laughably sad. I respect everyone's autonomy, but when you're mentally unstable you clearly aren't fit to exercise that autonomy and you need to be protected and supported until you once again reach a point where you are able to once again.
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    (Original post by jape)
    You're right about how transitioning makes one happy and sober-minded. That's why they're topping themselves left, right and centre I assume.


    Well no offence but I can only assume your firm beliefs are baseless horse crap, because you've given no proof. You appear to have just decided, unilaterally, that this must be the case. If you were to bother to look, you'd find the evidence on the subject is actually ambiguous - you're perfectly capable of making a credible case in favour of some sort of gender spectrum. The fact that you haven't even tried is reason enough for everyone to consider your opinions as garbage.


    I accept that the human race is diverse. I'm not hateful. I just don't think that promoting mental disorders and condemning the most vulnerable in our society to misery and death to make ourselves feel good is a particularly just or worthwhile enterprise.


    Something about that asterisk cracks me up. I can't quite put my finger on what, but it's funny.

    Leelah Acorn committed suicide because she was unwell. I don't doubt that she probably recieved some hateful comments online, but so does everyone else. Not everyone kills themselves.

    It isn't my hatred that's killing people with GID, because I don't hate them. I pity them and I want to protect them.


    >I can't be bothered to ground my strong moral convictions in objective fact, because I'm too busy gossiping with my girlfriends about how many trans friends I have and how much I hate the patriarchy, lmao you sad little cis boy

    http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/srcstc.gif
    To answer—This doesn't make any sense. "Topping themselves"is due to receiving unrelenting hate and abuse from the community and peoplelike you, not finally being able to receive the treatment that will allow themto live happy and full lives.My opinions are not baseless and you can't presume thingslike that. Also, if the evidence of the subject is ambiguous then why are youfirmly stuck in thinking that transgender people have a mental disorder, whenyou couldn't possibly know? You're right, I am capable of making a case infavour of the gender spectrum, but it's 23:46pm and I've been revising for myUKCAT test all day.It is not apparent that you accept diversity, but it isquite obvious that you are prejudiced. Once again, you are not able to knowthat this is a mental disorder. They also aren't the most vulnerable in oursociety, they are mentally healthy, capable and strong. I don't understand howmy advocation of getting them the treatment they desire is condemning them todeath, and your denying them the thing they need most desperately is helpingthem to any degree.The asterisk is to include all transgender, gendernon-conforming and non-binary identities, what's funny?And no, Leelah Alcorn committed suicide because her familyrefused to accept her, took her to therapy that made her think that she wasabnormal and should feel ashamed, isolated her completely from the world andher friends for months, and continuously denied her basic human rights anddecency for trying to be herself. Read her suicide letter.They don't need your pity.I have no trans friends in real life; I don't hate thepatriarchy (although I consider myself a feminist.); I don't have any,"girlfriends" but a boyfriend would do nicely, I'm most definitelynot sad, I'm actually quite little, and you got it right when you called mecis. Your point being?{��3g�
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    (Original post by buckeybarnes)
    To answer—This doesn't make any sense. "Topping themselves"is due to receiving unrelenting hate and abuse from the community and peoplelike you, not finally being able to receive the treatment that will allow themto live happy and full lives.My opinions are not baseless and you can't presume thingslike that. Also, if the evidence of the subject is ambiguous then why are youfirmly stuck in thinking that transgender people have a mental disorder, whenyou couldn't possibly know? You're right, I am capable of making a case infavour of the gender spectrum, but it's 23:46pm and I've been revising for myUKCAT test all day.It is not apparent that you accept diversity, but it isquite obvious that you are prejudiced. Once again, you are not able to knowthat this is a mental disorder. They also aren't the most vulnerable in oursociety, they are mentally healthy, capable and strong. I don't understand howmy advocation of getting them the treatment they desire is condemning them todeath, and your denying them the thing they need most desperately is helpingthem to any degree.The asterisk is to include all transgender, gendernon-conforming and non-binary identities, what's funny?And no, Leelah Alcorn committed suicide because her familyrefused to accept her, took her to therapy that made her think that she wasabnormal and should feel ashamed, isolated her completely from the world andher friends for months, and continuously denied her basic human rights anddecency for trying to be herself. Read her suicide letter.They don't need your pity.I have no trans friends in real life; I don't hate thepatriarchy (although I consider myself a feminist.); I don't have any,"girlfriends" but a boyfriend would do nicely, I'm most definitelynot sad, I'm actually quite little, and you got it right when you called mecis. Your point being?{��3g�
    and i have no idea what happened with the formatting.
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    (Original post by jape)
    Then I'll be hated. But I'll be right, and I'll be able to live with myself because I won't be passively supporting the deaths of thousands of the unwell.


    First of all, it's 2%.

    Second of all, I take issue with being LGB and your attempts at smearing me by suggesting I do are laughably sad. I respect everyone's autonomy, but when you're mentally unstable you clearly aren't fit to exercise that autonomy and you need to be protected and supported until you once again reach a point where you are able to once again.
    How are you able to presume that being trans is a mental disorder? Did i not already tell you the definition of a mental disorder, and how as a result it cannot be referred to as one?

    Give up with trying to blame me for supporting people's deaths. I've talked one of my trans friends out of suicide numerous times because of the way her family are treating her. My approach is helping trans people stay alive, yours is dooming them.
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    (Original post by buckeybarnes)
    To answer—This doesn't make any sense. "Topping themselves"is due to receiving unrelenting hate and abuse from the community and peoplelike you, not finally being able to receive the treatment that will allow themto live happy and full lives.
    Even if that were true (and its not) you can't deny that most people who get bullied/recieve hurtful comments online (which is almost everyone) don't kill themselves. And yet as a disproportionate amount of people with GID do. Does that not say anything to you at all?

    My opinions are not baseless and you can't presume thingslike that.
    It sure seems to be baseless, you haven't shown me a hint of base.

    Also, if the evidence of the subject is ambiguous then why are youfirmly stuck in thinking that transgender people have a mental disorder, whenyou couldn't possibly know?
    Because unlike you, I've looked at the evidence available to me and have come to a conclusion based upon it. I acknowledge that I can't say I'm right with 100% certainty but I am stridently confident that I am correct and that as more evidence comes to light I will be proven as such.

    You're right, I am capable of making a case infavour of the gender spectrum, but it's 23:46pm and I've been revising for myUKCAT test all day.
    Right. But that wasn't the case yesterday, or any other day that you've happened across a thread on this subject. I'm pretty confident you've never written a case in favour of a gender spectrum that's backed up by evidence, not even once.

    It is not apparent that you accept diversity, but it isquite obvious that you are prejudiced. Once again, you are not able to knowthat this is a mental disorder. They also aren't the most vulnerable in oursociety, they are mentally healthy, capable and strong.
    I still think I trust Dr Paul McHugh more than I do you. Sorry.

    I don't understand howmy advocation of getting them the treatment they desire is condemning them todeath, and your denying them the thing they need most desperately is helpingthem to any degree.
    What they desire? When have we ever given the mentally unwell "what they desire"? Are they really in a position to judge?

    The asterisk is to include all transgender, gendernon-conforming and non-binary identities, what's funny?
    I actually think that's what's funny. You've taken a swathe of society, a substantive amount of which are genuinely mentally unwell but a larger portion comprises teenage posers, you've drawn lines in the sand to make them all somehow different from one another so that they're all unique and special, and then you warp your own vocabulary so that you don't accidentally offend anyone. It's bizarre.

    And no, Leelah Alcorn committed suicide because her familyrefused to accept her, took her to therapy that made her think that she wasabnormal and should feel ashamed, isolated her completely from the world andher friends for months, and continuously denied her basic human rights anddecency for trying to be herself.
    She was abnormal. She needed the therapy. Being able to mutilate one's own genitalia is certainly not decent, nor is it a basic human right. She killed herself because of a massive network of people attempting (and evidently succeeding) to drive a wedge between an unstable girl who needed help and a concerned family.

    Read her suicide letter.
    The writings of a suicidal, delusional 17 year-old boy hopped up on hormones are the last place anyone should be going to discover the truth. About anything.

    They don't need your pity.
    Yes, they do. And they need yours too.

    I have no trans friends in real life; I don't hate thepatriarchy (although I consider myself a feminist.); I don't have any,"girlfriends" but a boyfriend would do nicely, I'm most definitelynot sad, I'm actually quite little, and you got it right when you called mecis. Your point being?{��3g�
    That was my surmation of your general attitude toward me.

    (Original post by buckeybarnes)
    How are you able to presume that being trans is a mental disorder? Did i not already tell you the definition of a mental disorder, and how as a result it cannot be referred to as one?
    You told me, I told you that you were wrong and then I quoted Dr McHugh to prove that you were wrong. You don't get to decide.

    Give up with trying to blame me for supporting people's deaths. I've talked one of my trans friends out of suicide numerous times because of the way her family are treating her. My approach is helping trans people stay alive, yours is dooming them.
    The evidence tells the opposite story. I don't doubt that there are people who react appallingly to members of their family having this disease. I don't doubt that there are people who are ostracised by their families and bullied for having it. But there are people in the same scenario for other reasons too. Encouraging their delusion isn't much better than outright bullying them in the long run.
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    (Original post by jape)
    Even if that were true (and its not) you can't deny that most people who get bullied/recieve hurtful comments online (which is almost everyone) don't kill themselves. And yet as a disproportionate amount of people with GID do. Does that not say anything to you at all?


    It sure seems to be baseless, you haven't shown me a hint of base.


    Because unlike you, I've looked at the evidence available to me and have come to a conclusion based upon it. I acknowledge that I can't say I'm right with 100% certainty but I am stridently confident that I am correct and that as more evidence comes to light I will be proven as such.


    Right. But that wasn't the case yesterday, or any other day that you've happened across a thread on this subject. I'm pretty confident you've never written a case in favour of a gender spectrum that's backed up by evidence, not even once.


    I still think I trust Dr Paul McHugh more than I do you. Sorry.


    What they desire? When have we ever given the mentally unwell "what they desire"? Are they really in a position to judge?


    I actually think that's what's funny. You've taken a swathe of society, a substantive amount of which are genuinely mentally unwell but a larger portion comprises teenage posers, you've drawn lines in the sand to make them all somehow different from one another so that they're all unique and special, and then you warp your own vocabulary so that you don't accidentally offend anyone. It's bizarre.


    She was abnormal. She needed the therapy. Being able to mutilate one's own genitalia is certainly not decent, nor is it a basic human right. She killed herself because of a massive network of people attempting (and evidently succeeding) to drive a wedge between an unstable girl who needed help and a concerned family.


    The writings of a suicidal, delusional 17 year-old boy hopped up on hormones are the last place anyone should be going to discover the truth. About anything.


    Yes, they do. And they need yours too.


    That was my surmation of your general attitude toward me.


    You told me, I told you that you were wrong and then I quoted Dr McHugh to prove that you were wrong. You don't get to decide.


    The evidence tells the opposite story. I don't doubt that there are people who react appallingly to members of their family having this disease. I don't doubt that there are people who are ostracised by their families and bullied for having it. But there are people in the same scenario for other reasons too. Encouraging their delusion isn't much better than outright bullying them in the long run.
    God I don't have the stamina to tell you why everything you are saying is wrong, but I will pose some questions-

    1. why is it not the truth that trans people commit suicide because of transphobia, abuse and prejudice, but from support and kindness? Trans people are bullied and abused usually to a much more severe extent than other people who may experience cyber bullying.
    2. Why are you trying to belittle me?
    3. Who gave you the right to dictate what is correct and go against the definition of a mental disorder?
    4. Where are you getting all of these weird facts?

    and Leelah Alcorn was a girl, not a boy hopped up on hormones.
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    (Original post by buckeybarnes)
    God I don't have the stamina to tell you why everything you are saying is wrong, but I will pose some questions-
    I'm sure that's the reason.

    1. why is it not the truth that trans people commit suicide because of transphobia, abuse and prejudice, but from support and kindness? Trans people are bullied and abused usually to a much more severe extent than other people who may experience cyber bullying.
    I don't really understand the question, but I'm going to assume your saying "support and kindness" facetiously and go from there.

    People commit suicide due to "support and kindness" because they percieve those things as aggressive and hurtful. They perceive them that way in part because they're unstable, and in larger part because they've got an enormous sector of society telling them that it's aggressive and hurtful, with an even larger part who'll just agree because they think that this is the next civil rights frontier or something.

    I don't believe that trans people suffer bullying to a larger extent than other people, quite frankly. I think that "bullying" is self-reported and subjective, and we shouldn't be taking the word of the mentally unwell as gospel. Especially given that many of these people are predisposed toward attention - mental defects often come along in clumps, and there are a few trans people I could name who are absolute suckers for attention and are textbook NPD.

    2. Why are you trying to belittle me?
    I'm trying to make you see that your point of view is dangerously stupid and fundamentally wrong. In what way is that belittling?

    3. Who gave you the right to dictate what is correct and go against the definition of a mental disorder?
    I'm quoting Dr Paul McHugh, an expert in the field, who has said that GID is a mental disorder and that reassignment surgery is like giving liposuction to an anorexic.

    4. Where are you getting all of these weird facts?
    Trans people unwell, sex change impossible
    Sex change surgery is ineffective
    http://Long-Term Follow-Up of Transs...tudy in Sweden

    If you want anything specific I'll be happy to oblige.

    and Leelah Alcorn was a girl, not a boy hopped up on hormones.
    He was a boy hopped up on hormones. If he has a Y chromosome, no uterus and can't bear children, he's a guy. No amount of cosplaying an deed polls will ever change that.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    Mentally illness is by enlarge a social construct I.e what is acceptable behaviour or what is abnormal behaviour.

    This is abnormal behaviour


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    If we branded everyone who acted abnormally as mentally ill, it'd be a hell of a boring world.
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    A transwoman's gender may be female, but her sex is not. There's nothing wrong with being a straight male wanting to date someone whose biological sex is female. It doesn't mean that he's saying the transwoman is not a 'woman', it means he wants to date someone who is biologically female, which is fair enough seeing as hel be having intimate relations of a physical nature with her and is not attracted to non-female anatomy.
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    (Original post by buckeybarnes)
    Yeah, this makes perfect sense. To clear up anything, "sex" is determined physically by your genitalia, and as far as I know you can be male, female or different degrees of intersex. This is where you possess an amalgam of chromosomes, genitalia or/and gonads from both sexes (EG You might have traditionally female XX chromosomes but also have testicles.)

    On the other hand, gender is a spectrum and is determined mentally, with the extremes of either side being completely female/complete femininity and completely male/ complete masculinity. Trans people are a different gender to their sex.

    I understand the point you are making, but his wording is still transphobic. What he might want to say to avoid any offense, would be, "I want to go out with someone who has female sex organs and identifies as female." but that is a bit long-winded.
    Then he would say "I want to date a cis woman". Cis is the shortened form of cisgender and the definition of cisgender is "a person whose self identity conforms with the gender that corresponds to their biological sex". So I want to date a cis woman is the short way to say I want to date someone who has female sex organs and identifies as female.
 
 
 
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