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''Earning'' money/a living is a fallacy. watch

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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Parents are long term unemployed (household income of £8k). I myself still see no reason why i can't reach the median wage given that i'm bright and ambitious. By time i die i expect to own my own home and have sent my children to Oxford.
    Sounds like uncle tommery to me. The middle class have been teaching you well. You will discover the middle class smell impure blood when you reach the real world.
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    (Original post by Little Popcorns)
    Well good luck to you if that's the case. Why're your parents long term unemployed? (No judgment I'm a lot nicer than you )
    Work never agreed with father, mother has mental issues, step-father is physically disabled (i'm fine).

    I don't judge people negatively really unless they give me cause to.
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    (Original post by ElephantMemory)
    Sounds like uncle tommery to me. The middle class have been teaching you well. You will discover the middle class smell impure blood when you reach the real world.
    I've been in the 'real world' more than most people on here.
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    (Original post by ElephantMemory)
    Great argument. Accuse me of trolling and disappear into the woods.

    Your post was talking about how some people are genetically superior. If some people are genetically superior then the only way to fix it is social cleansing. I bet you would love that.
    It's not a problem that some people are genetically superior; that's how natural selection works. Why are you finding this so hard to understand?
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Work never agreed with father, mother has mental issues, step-father is physically disabled (i'm fine).

    I don't judge people negatively really unless they give me cause to.
    Ah okay.

    That's good although the nature of being fairly right wing is that you do pass judgment on people quicker than the other end of the spectrum.

    If you do do well just don't betray who/where you come from through politics. You should know that it's not always bad choices that land people in difficult circumstances.
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    I know I have unearned privilege, I recognise this and could see myself helping those who need me who did not have such fortunate circumstances.


    But


    Anyone who thinks I will apologise for this, or that I accept being punished for this so as to balance out this unfairness of birth, can burn in hell
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I've been in the 'real world' more than most people on here.

    Nonsense.


    (Original post by Laurie_H)
    It's not a problem that some people are genetically superior; that's how natural selection works. Why are you finding this so hard to understand?
    Natural selection lol. Do you support social cleansing?
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    (Original post by Little Popcorns)
    Ah okay.

    That's good although the nature of being fairly right wing is that you do pass judgment on people quicker than the other end of the spectrum.

    If you do do well just don't betray who/where you come from through politics. You should know that it's not always bad choices that land people in difficult circumstances.
    Deserving/undeserving poor vs benefit of the doubt.

    I believe in aspiration and improving the lot of the working poor as much as anybody else. I just think that the market can do that better than a strictly government solution.

    (Original post by ElephantMemory)
    Nonsense.

    Natural selection lol. Do you support social cleansing?
    Not so. I actually left school, worked and partied before going to university. I even had to pay income tax.

    What do you define as real world experience?
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Deserving/undeserving poor vs benefit of the doubt.

    I believe in aspiration and improving the lot of the working poor as much as anybody else. I just think that the market can do that better than a strictly government solution.



    Not so. I actually left school, worked and partied before going to university. I even had to pay income tax.

    What do you define as real world experience?
    You will know when it hits you.
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    (Original post by ElephantMemory)
    You cannot. It is luck until everybody is on a level playing field.
    Wait, so the qualifications you get have nothing to do with how hard you work towards them and are entirely to do with luck?
    Fair enough, the wealthier people will have more connections to do something with those qualifications, but are you also saying that there is no need to send applications for jobs all over, after all, if one does nothing they might get lucky and be offered a decent job?
    How about once in that job, of course, you don't need to do that job well, or at all, you will get lucky and be paid regardless, maybe even get lucky and get a promotion!
    But all that doesn't matter, because you could always get unlucky and suddenly have all that money taken away for no reason, alternatively, the hermit could suddenly become a billionaire because of sheer luck, so I guess I don't need to do any more work, I guess I'll go become another hobo, after all, I'm just as likely to do well that way, right?
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    (Original post by Zargabaath)
    Let me tell you a story...

    Once upon a time my grandparents lived in 2 small rooms along with their 4 sons in a shared house in Kenya. One day my grandfather received a job offer from the UK, my grandparents decided this was a brilliant opportunity to improve their lives and so they took the offer and booked a flight, planning to stay with a relative who already lived in the UK. Everything was looking great until about 2 weeks before the flight when my grandfather was involved in a car crash that killed him.

    Despite what my grandfathers family said, my grandmother moved to England anyway and stayed in the spare room of the relatives house, along with her 4 kids. She found work stitching together fabric in a clothes factory, despite speaking very little English, meanwhile her eldest son who was 14 started working in a warehouse while also going to school. Eventually the family had enough money to rent their own place, a small room above a newsagents.

    After a few years the eldest son managed to get a job at a bank and between them they finally bought their first house. Then the second eldest son went to uni and the third eldest bought a newsagents. Then finally the youngest went to uni to study electronic engineering. Today the oldest is an accountant, the second oldest owns his own IT company, the third oldest still owns the shop and my father ended up working in radio. So far all of their children have ended up in uni.

    So basically an Indian single mother of 4 kids, who could barely speak English moved to the UK alone and ended up fairly well off. Remember that this was during the 70s when a significant chunk of the population was less than thrilled at having non whites in their neighbourhoods. So how can you possibly say social mobility is middle class propaganda?
    This "rags to riches" story sounds like the script for a Bollywood film, These tales bear little relevance to the England of today and yet Asians keep churning them out in a misguided attempt to inspire young people.
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    (Original post by Swindle)
    This "rags to riches" story sounds like the script for a Bollywood film, These tales bear little relevance to the England of today and yet Asians keep churning them out in a misguided attempt to inspire young people.
    I'm not trying to inspire anyone, I really couldn't care less about the motivation of the people reading this. If it's the Asian thing that's bugging you I could tell you about how my very working class white friends' parents made their riches through an air-con company.
    What I'm saying is social mobility isn't "middle class propaganda".

    You're right, this isn't the 70s-90s anymore, today we have way more opportunities for the poor to improve their lives then ever.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Wait, so the qualifications you get have nothing to do with how hard you work towards them and are entirely to do with luck?
    Fair enough, the wealthier people will have more connections to do something with those qualifications, but are you also saying that there is no need to send applications for jobs all over, after all, if one does nothing they might get lucky and be offered a decent job?
    How about once in that job, of course, you don't need to do that job well, or at all, you will get lucky and be paid regardless, maybe even get lucky and get a promotion!
    But all that doesn't matter, because you could always get unlucky and suddenly have all that money taken away for no reason, alternatively, the hermit could suddenly become a billionaire because of sheer luck, so I guess I don't need to do any more work, I guess I'll go become another hobo, after all, I'm just as likely to do well that way, right?
    Middle class person detected.

    I never said you don't have to work to gain success. I said that success isn't 'earned' until we are all on a level playing field.


    (Original post by Zargabaath)
    I'm not trying to inspire anyone, I really couldn't care less about the motivation of the people reading this. If it's the Asian thing that's bugging you I could tell you about how my very working class white friends' parents made their riches through an air-con company.
    What I'm saying is social mobility isn't "middle class propaganda".

    You're right, this isn't the 70s-90s anymore, today we have way more opportunities for the poor to improve their lives then ever.
    All those fallacies.
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    (Original post by Zargabaath)
    I'm not trying to inspire anyone, I really couldn't care less about the motivation of the people reading this. If it's the Asian thing that's bugging you I could tell you about how my very working class white friends' parents made their riches through an air-con company.
    What I'm saying is social mobility isn't "middle class propaganda".

    You're right, this isn't the 70s-90s anymore, today we have way more opportunities for the poor to improve their lives then ever.
    You also a have higher, diverse population, the influence of the internet and an ever growing gap between average income and property prices.

    Your story of success involves the acquisition of several properties at a time when prices were only 3-4x greater than the average income.

    It took a "few years" in the 70s - it simply isn't like that in 2015.
    People have to do a lot more than people in the 70s did just to keep their head above water.
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    (Original post by ElephantMemory)
    Nonsense.




    Natural selection lol. Do you support social cleansing?
    I'll say it again. Natural selection is not the same as mass genocide. Do you understand?
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    If OP spent as much time working as he did complaining; he'd be richer than the middle classes by now.
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    You will never earn much with that envious attitude.
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    I agree with OP to an extent. I know it sounds cliched to ask everyone to 'check their privilege' but how many of us would really be at university (or at good universities for that matter) if we hadn't grown up in nurturing, financially comfortable environments where we were encouraged to do well in class? That's not to say everyone is a complete product of their circumstance, there are plenty of exceptions (who have probably already pointed themselves out here), but it does go at least some way in determining outcomes in life.

    Is it fair or right? I'd say it's hard to morally defend without some sort of an appeal to prescribed social order that has been on the way out for hundreds of years now. The argument that 'that's just how life is, you can't do it perfectly, so why bother' is a fallacious one that would be laughed at if it were applied to, for instance, modern medicine. Even parties on the right pretty much universally subscribe to 'equality of opportunity' as a thing to aspire to. That being said, exactly how you do it is what is really up for debate.
 
 
 
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