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How can Corbyn represent the 'working class' when he hasn't worked a day in his life? watch

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    This populist nonsense about politicians really isn't helpful. Being a member of parliament is a job. It may not always be the most admirable job, but it is a job. If you argue that is isn't then you must surely argue that working eight hours a day in an office typing stuff on a computer isn't either.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    Whilst I agree with you on the gifted thinker front if you think union organisers don't spend most of their time working with (there are a lot of people from working class backgrounds in these roles) and FOR (unlike a manager) working class people you have absolutely no idea what the job role entails.
    If union officials work FOR working class people why do they insist on privileges designed to reduce opportunity for working class people? Why can't a normal working class person become a tube driver? Why should union members be expected to strike and lose pay according to the wishes of minority votes?
    Creating a small constituency of dependent workers is not working for their best interests.
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    as long as he has absolutely no chance of getting into power i don't care
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    (Original post by T.L)
    If union officials work FOR working class people why do they insist on privileges designed to reduce opportunity for working class people? Why can't a normal working class person become a tube driver? Why should union members be expected to strike and lose pay according to the wishes of minority votes?
    Creating a small constituency of dependent workers is not working for their best interests.
    A nomal working class person can become a train driver - my boyfriends friend from school did just that.

    You don't know anything about unions do you? And seemingly what little you do know is about the transport union - an organtion that functions very differently FM most unions and isn't affiliated with the TUC.

    A Union officials job is to recruit people to the union by visiting workplaces - the vast majority of which will be working class - as well as to represent members. The whole drive of unions is recruitment - hardly creating a small constuency of dependant workers.

    Also if they don't want to strike they can vote against it? If the majority vote no the strike doesn't go ahead so I don't really know where you got the idea of strikes happening from mi ority votes came from.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    A nomal working class person can become a train driver - my boyfriends friend from school did just that.

    You don't know anything about unions do you? And seemingly what little you do know is about the transport union - an organtion that functions very differently FM most unions and isn't affiliated with the TUC.

    A Union officials job is to recruit people to the union by visiting workplaces - the vast majority of which will be working class - as well as to represent members. The whole drive of unions is recruitment - hardly creating a small constuency of dependant workers.

    Also if they don't want to strike they can vote against it? If the majority vote no the strike doesn't go ahead so I don't really know where you got the idea of strikes happening from mi ority votes came from.
    I know enough to know that you don't know as much as you think. The RMT is affiliated with the TUC. I'm not sure what an "organtion" is though.

    A small constituency of workers is what you have when unions represent 20% of workers, and only a small minority of those are private sector workers. This means unions are grossly unrepresentative of workers generally, and have a wholly disproportionate political influence because they are regularly prepared to hold the rest of society to ransom to inflate their already privileged pay and conditions.
    Unions are a grotesque burden on the rest of society.
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    (Original post by T.L)
    I know enough to know that you don't know as much as you think. The RMT is affiliated with the TUC. I'm not sure what an "organtion" is though.

    A small constituency of workers is what you have when unions represent 20% of workers, and only a small minority of those are private sector workers. This means unions are grossly unrepresentative of workers generally, and have a wholly disproportionate political influence because they are regularly prepared to hold the rest of society to ransom to inflate their already privileged pay and conditions.
    Unions are a grotesque burden on the rest of society.
    You know that there is a massive drive within unions to recruit private sector workers?

    No, thought not.

    Let's be honest here if you don't join a union then it's your own fault your pay is worse than someone who does. All workplaces should be unionised and people should be fighting for better pay together, rather than attacking unionised workplaces and professions out of jealousy without actually doing anything to improve their own working conditions.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    You know that there is a massive drive within unions to recruit private sector workers?

    No, thought not.

    Let's be honest here if you don't join a union then it's your own fault your pay is worse than someone who does. All workplaces should be unionised and people should be fighting for better pay together, rather than attacking unionised workplaces and professions out of jealousy without actually doing anything to improve their own working conditions.
    Yes I do. However, unions don't represent my priorities or interests as a private sector worker, and worse spend large sums of money propagating political opinions which I don't share, economic views which are crazy, and supporting violent extremists.

    If I don't join a union, it is because it is highly politically partisan, out of touch, unrepresentative of reality in the modern world and has no interest in improving society.
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    (Original post by T.L)
    Yes I do. However, unions don't represent my priorities or interests as a private sector worker, and worse spend large sums of money propagating political opinions which I don't share, economic views which are crazy, and supporting violent extremists.

    If I don't join a union, it is because it is highly politically partisan, out of touch, unrepresentative of reality in the modern world and has no interest in improving society.
    So improving pay and conditions at work aren't in your interest and wouldn't improve society then? Obviously if you don't want better pay or working conditions it doesn't make sense to join a union as that is their primary purpose.

    I'm sorry but when has a union ever supported a violent extremist???
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    (Original post by redferry)
    So improving pay and conditions at work aren't in your interest and wouldn't improve society then? Obviously if you don't want better pay or working conditions it doesn't make sense to join a union as that is their primary purpose.

    I'm sorry but when has a union ever supported a violent extremist???
    Well, let's just say that 13 years of Labour government did less for low paid workers and job creation than 5 years of Tories and Coalition have done so far. The data's unambiguous about that.

    Well Serwotka's lining up well to become one himself - threatening an undemocratic coup. Unite has recently changed its membership rules to permit its members to commit crimes. Is this moderate?
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    (Original post by L'Evil Fish)
    What are you on? He's had a job...

    By that merit all of the rich definitely haven't worked.
    You're telling me that people like Dyson and Branson haven't worked? All the "rich" people I know have got there by working unimaginable hours for decades. They didn't get there by working 9-5, 5 days a week.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    I'm sorry but when has a union ever supported a violent extremist???
    You don't include the NUM's support of Arthur Scargill who led a year-long campaign of violent demonstrations against the Thatcher government, including violence against strike-breakers, I suppose?
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    (Original post by redferry)
    So improving pay and conditions at work aren't in your interest and wouldn't improve society then? Obviously if you don't want better pay or working conditions it doesn't make sense to join a union as that is their primary purpose.

    I'm sorry but when has a union ever supported a violent extremist???
    I'm not sure about violent extremism but I have a huge amount of experience working with organized labour in the US and Canada.

    As a matter of fact I am working on an open shop project at the moment. We have three firms erecting steelwork - one is (Building Trades) union, the other is CLAC (basically "union light") and the other in non-affiliated.

    Let me tell you that life for the non-affiliated firm got pretty difficult, pretty quickly. Equipment went "missing" and materials got damaged. In the end, these guys met with the union "business manager" and agreed to pay 2.8% of their payroll to the union in order to make problems go away. Basically, this is mafia territory. Extortion.

    So, let's not kid ourselves that unions are some fluffy collective that just want to ensure pay and conditions are kept to acceptable levels. Any Teamster will take the shirt off your back - he doesn't just go for the employer - he has no qualms about trying to destroy the livelihood of men and women who don't want to affiliate.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    You don't include the NUM's support of Arthur Scargill who led a year-long campaign of violent demonstrations against the Thatcher government, including violence against strike-breakers, I suppose?
    And Scargill only had a 10% mandate for strike action within the NUM. He ran an illegal strike.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I'm not sure about violent extremism but I have a huge amount of experience working with organized labour in the US and Canada.

    As a matter of fact I am working on an open shop project at the moment. We have three firms erecting steelwork - one is (Building Trades) union, the other is CLAC (basically "union light" and the other in non-affiliated.

    Let me tell you that life for the non-affiliated firm got pretty difficult, pretty quickly. Equipment went "missing" and materials got damaged. In the end, these guys met with the union "business manager" and agreed to pay 2.8% of their payroll to the union in order to make problems go away. Basically, this is mafia territory. Extortion.

    So, let's not kid ourselves that unions are some fluffy collective that just want to ensure pay and conditions are kept to acceptable levels. Any Teamster will take the shirt off your back - he doesn't just go for the employer - he has no qualms about trying to destroy the livelihood of men and women who don't want to affiliate.
    The difference here is that the unions corruptly control the Labour Party and ensure that it's the state who shakes down ordinary businesses and employees.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I'm not sure about violent extremism but I have a huge amount of experience working with organized labour in the US and Canada.

    As a matter of fact I am working on an open shop project at the moment. We have three firms erecting steelwork - one is (Building Trades) union, the other is CLAC (basically "union light") and the other in non-affiliated.

    Let me tell you that life for the non-affiliated firm got pretty difficult, pretty quickly. Equipment went "missing" and materials got damaged. In the end, these guys met with the union "business manager" and agreed to pay 2.8% of their payroll to the union in order to make problems go away. Basically, this is mafia territory. Extortion.

    So, let's not kid ourselves that unions are some fluffy collective that just want to ensure pay and conditions are kept to acceptable levels. Any Teamster will take the shirt off your back - he doesn't just go for the employer - he has no qualms about trying to destroy the livelihood of men and women who don't want to affiliate.
    The corruption levels in the US are hugeley higher than they are here - there is negligible amount of corruption in the unions in this country, bar a level of nepotism equivalent to any other sector. Theres a lot of Mafia involvement in the states - you can find similar in some areas of Scotland - due to a large number of small unions. In the UK its very different, after the reforms especially they entirely cleaned up their act and became very large and very professional bodies.

    The unions here, especially the larger ones like unison and unite, run like any other private company.
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    (Original post by T.L)
    Well, let's just say that 13 years of Labour government did less for low paid workers and job creation than 5 years of Tories and Coalition have done so far. The data's unambiguous about that.

    Well Serwotka's lining up well to become one himself - threatening an undemocratic coup. Unite has recently changed its membership rules to permit its members to commit crimes. Is this moderate?
    No it isn't - Blair raised the living standards of the poorest in society, which have only suffered under the current government.

    You are clearly deluded.

    Also that has 0 to do with unions.

    Sewotka is a trot and in no way representative of the vast majority of union bosses. He has destroyed PCs to the point it is basically only still going so that it can continue to pay peoples pensions. It'll cease to exist sooner or later - its gone from one of the largest and most respected unions to a tiny membership that everyone thinks is crazy.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    You don't include the NUM's support of Arthur Scargill who led a year-long campaign of violent demonstrations against the Thatcher government, including violence against strike-breakers, I suppose?
    Oh don't be so ridiculous, Scargill was a ******** but he wasn't a extremist. I guess you probably think Mandela is a extremist too? In which case I'm proud unions supported a 'violent extremist'

    And believe me the violence of the miners was nothing compared to that meted out against them by the police/army. Scared people do stupid things.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    No it isn't - Blair raised the living standards of the poorest in society, which have only suffered under the current government.

    You are clearly deluded.

    Also that has 0 to do with unions.

    Sewotka is a trot and in no way representative of the vast majority of union bosses. He has destroyed PCs to the point it is basically only still going so that it can continue to pay peoples pensions. It'll cease to exist sooner or later - its gone from one of the largest and most respected unions to a tiny membership that everyone thinks is crazy.
    Yup. And everyone thinks McCluskey is a loon too and he represents the largest union. Very democratically, he was only elected by 10% of the membership.Odd that this campaigner against corporate greed pays himself as much as the Prime Minister for dubiously representing the interests of 50 times fewer people.
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    (Original post by T.L)
    Yup. And everyone thinks McCluskey is a loon too and he represents the largest union. Very democratically, he was only elected by 10% of the membership.Odd that this campaigner against corporate greed pays himself as much as the Prime Minister for dubiously representing the interests of 50 times fewer people.
    McClusky is not even close to on a par with serwotka though - he's not been destroying the union and opposed their support of Corbyn, to his credit. I agree though he's a little loopier than ideal. It's not his fault people chose not to vote really.

    The difference with pay in unions compared to other private companies is there is far less disparity between those at the top an those at the bottom.

    Also unite only claims to be the biggest union - they over report their membership a lot. UNISON is probably the largest.
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    As were mentioning funding, the solution is clear that any party with an MP should get equal tax payer funding to the governing party with all donations of any kind banned.

    Only membership fees for a party can then be additional income.

    This wouldn't cost more than about 50m a year and sort out so much corruption and pointless argument


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