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    (Original post by infairverona)
    I don't know if it comes with age or something but I really don't remember feeling as entitled as people on here when I was a teenager? I did an unpaid trial in a bakery and was so grateful because all I had was GCSEs and that was it. I got the job, after that I got a job at Waitrose, Waitrose got me John Lewis, John Lewis got me my first job out of uni and now a year later I have a great job for the Department of Health. It opens so many doors if you are willing to get a foot in the door, listen, learn, take criticism and develop from it - but people on here think having a few GCSEs or AS levels makes you employee of the year? It's ridiculous. No wonder there are so many young people on JSA now. Their attitude stinks, I wouldn't hire someone like that. Can you imagine if you had to performance manage someone with that kind of attitude? Not worth it!
    Three/four years ago they were still in school. They were told exactly what to wear (their uniform). In fact if they even wanted to go to the toilet they had to first raise their hand and ask for permission. They were children. Just. Children.

    And now they think they are above proving themselves, that they can compete with adult's with years of experience on their CV by just turning up? They think they can go into someone's business, their livlihood, and simply start being there without proving yourself?

    Incredible. I mean was my employer really going to take me on without seeing what I was like as a person? Not really. They want to get a closer look at me before I meet their clients. They want to get a closer look at me before I assess the performance of their clients' businesses. They want to get a closer look at me and see if I am ambitious before paying for my accounting body memberships, etc. I could go on.

    (Original post by thisistheend)
    let me tell you something. it is entirely possible to get work by never volunteering your labour. I wouldn't say I've done brilliantly in life, but I can definitely say I was never taken advantage of in the workplace, if I didnt like something, I just quit.

    but if you have initiative and some niche skills / network contacts, it's possible to freelance yourself out. I sort of just sit at home waiting for work to come to me.

    and really, for the sort of thing the OP was on about, working in a shop, what does she have to prove? everyone's got 2 hands and a pair of legs innit. it's laughable that you have to "prove you're worthy" to lift a few boxes or to hand someone their shopping.
    Freelance yourself out? Sit at home waiting for work to come to you?

    I do accounting so will speak from my perspective; If some 22 year old is sitting at home, with their own business but no experience, I would run a mile before letting them do stuff for my business.

    Let me tell you something? I don't need to be told anything to be honest. I haven't been "taken advantage of". That you think getting experience is being taken advantage of is just incredible.

    OP, if you want a good job you have to be ambitious and a hard worker. I recommend though that you take my advice-you will be the one who suffers if you don't. Not the employer, not the person who does the trial and gets kept on after three days, you.
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    (Original post by SuperWolfPaws)
    yup, i'm job seeking, got an interview, interview went ok , and then the lady said, 'the next stage of the recruitment process is to work unpaid trail for a few days'

    Would you do it? is it legal?

    Oh wow,how has my life come to this :rofl:
    Well it's not like the shop is getting easy free labour. They have to train you and examine how capable you are. They have to put time into it the same as you.
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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    And now they think they are above proving themselves, that they can compete with adult's with years of experience on their CV by just turning up? They think they can go into someone's business, their livlihood, and simply start being there without proving yourself?
    That's what the probation period is for: to allow the employer to dismiss a new starter with no notice for not being up to scratch.

    There is no need to make someone turn up and work for no money, that is just abuse.

    If you are willing to prostitute yourself and grovel for a job by working for nothing, then good for you. Other people have some self respect and won't participate in letting an employer break employment law.
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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    There are two kinds of people on this thread;
    Me and you-willing to work hard and prove themselves. They have a good work ethic and have good professions now. We both value jobs very highly and are therefore very committed. A good attitude.

    Those that think a three day trial is some kind of great injustice. If that is their attitude good luck getting a job in law or accounting or something similar. They may well be bright, brighter than me, but if that is their attitude good luck because they will really need it.
    I guess I must be a third kind since I have a good attitude to work, I'm committed, and I've been working in different jobs since I was 16, including through uni, and now as a graduate I have a good job. I haven't been unemployed in over 10 years.

    Firstly - OP has SIX YEARS of retail experience. If a shop demands a three day trial after interview and you have six years of experience, they are taking advantage of you. That is unquestionable.

    Secondly - You say that accounting or law make people do unpaid trials? And that it's very tough to get a job in these fields. That's exactly my point of why potential employees shouldn't accept this kind of behaviour from employees.

    In an oversaturated job market, the employer holds the power, and they know it, and they know that they can make unreasonable demands, because people will do anything to secure a job. That willingness to do anything on the behalf of certain job-seekers just validates the behaviour of the employers and encourages them to continue to make these unreasonable demands. That's not an admirable trait of hard-work on the part of the employee, that's desperation (understandable though it might be). The only way to stop it is for everybody to stick to their principles and not give in to the unreasonable demands. It's a matter of principle.
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    (Original post by Simes)
    Can you defend that with evidence? Or is it just your opinion?
    The evidence is in the fact that companies are able to do unpaid trial shifts in the first place. If the majority of people refused to take up the opportunity, they would be forced to offer paid trials, as someone else already stated. It's a catch 22 - if you take the shifts, you are part of the crowd that enables the problem. If you don't take the shift, someone else will. The evidence is already there - it's what drives the whole thing we are talking about.
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    (Original post by thisistheend)
    you're a girl. if I was a girl, I would rather prostitute myself than to give 3 days of unpaid labour.
    Don't put limits on yourself; guys can be prostitutes too
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    (Original post by e aí rapaz)
    The only way to stop it is for everybody to stick to their principles and not give in to the unreasonable demands. It's a matter of principle.
    Ok so what do you suggest for people who are desperate for a job then? What about people with bills to pay and families to feed. Should they refuse to do an unpaid trial out of principle and risk more months of financial difficulty? But at least they've got their principles right - that'll keep them fed and warm at night

    [e] The thing is, in principle I agree with you somewhat. Someone with experience shouldn't be struggling so much to get a job. But how things are now, if I needed a job to pay bills and rent then nothing would be beneath me. I wouldn't risk more months of being unemployed at the sake of swallowing my pride for 3 days, if it ever comes to it. That's how things are now and having principles doesn't generate an income so what can you do.
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    (Original post by abc:))
    Don't put limits on yourself; guys can be prostitutes too
    But a female can hide her distinct lack of enthusiam, guys... can't.
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    (Original post by thisistheend)
    But a female can hide her distinct lack of enthusiam, guys... can't.
    Well, yes, you're right - maybe if / when you get really good at sex then.
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    (Original post by abc:))
    Well, yes, you're right - maybe if / when you get really good at sex then.
    what does that have anything to do with it? a munter is a munter.
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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    Three/four years ago they were still in school. They were told exactly what to wear (their uniform). In fact if they even wanted to go to the toilet they had to first raise their hand and ask for permission. They were children. Just. Children.

    And now they think they are above proving themselves, that they can compete with adult's with years of experience on their CV by just turning up? They think they can go into someone's business, their livlihood, and simply start being there without proving yourself?
    I don't think anybody is saying that. Graduates almost always apply for graduate jobs. They're not competing with or expecting to get the same jobs as people with experience.

    Btw, just an aside - my brother graduated last year in Economics, and is working in accounting now, as is his gf, and neither did any free trial period.

    (Original post by infairverona)
    Ok so what do you suggest for people who are desperate for a job then? What about people with bills to pay and families to feed. Should they refuse to do an unpaid trial out of principle and risk more months of financial difficulty? But at least they've got their principles right - that'll keep them fed and warm at night
    Well, that's obviously a very difficult question and depends on the individual. The point is, it would be better for everyone if nobody accepted it. So the more people that don't accept it, the better. I can't imagine that many people are in that situation of having a family to feed and the ONLY job they can find is demanding a long, free trial period. If they're in such a desperate position, then even more shame on the company for demanding free labour from them. If we all (as in, us the majority who need a job but don't NEED it that badly) were to stop accepting it, then maybe those really desperate people wouldn't be put in that situation.
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    Unpaid work is for chumps without spines. Internships that are unpaid are also a joke. The students who willingly go into those are the scum of the earth because they're essentially saying its ok to treat students and grads like disposable garbage.
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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    Freelance yourself out? Sit at home waiting for work to come to you?

    I do accounting so will speak from my perspective; If some 22 year old is sitting at home, with their own business but no experience, I would run a mile before letting them do stuff for my business.

    Let me tell you something? I don't need to be told anything to be honest. I haven't been "taken advantage of". That you think getting experience is being taken advantage of is just incredible.
    .
    yes yes, people are cynical about it until it happens to them then they realise it too can happen for them.

    i'm not selling a get rich quick method (because i'm not rich), i don't want your money for my advice. i'm just telling you, it's possible to make a living and never voluntarily offer your labour.

    you might run a mile, but others wouldn't, and haven't. and here I am today, telling YOU something.
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    if you really want to do it, go ahead.
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    (Original post by e aí rapaz)
    Well, that's obviously a very difficult question and depends on the individual. The point is, it would be better for everyone if nobody accepted it. So the more people that don't accept it, the better. I can't imagine that many people are in that situation of having a family to feed and the ONLY job they can find is demanding a long, free trial period. If they're in such a desperate position, then even more shame on the company for demanding free labour from them. If we all (as in, us the majority who need a job but don't NEED it that badly) were to stop accepting it, then maybe those really desperate people wouldn't be put in that situation.
    I agree with you but this is my point. It's a difficult question but it's happening. It may not be a family but a student may need a job to pay their rent. A graduate may need any job to pay bills and rent. Someone may lose their job or become redundant and need just any job available as quickly as possible to keep up their financial commitments. It happens to people all the time.

    Not everyone is so fortunate to leave university and walk straight into a graduate job without any experience. Not everyone can get a part time job with no experience. If somewhere is offering a job with an unpaid trial and someone really needs that job, SOMEONE will do it. Rejecting a trial out of principle is stupid because, unfortunately, until it's made illegal or something, companies will continue to offer it, applicants will continue to do it, and those with too much pride will not be getting that job. This is not going to change just by a few people being too arrogant to do an unpaid trial, it would take a massive change like unpaid trials not being allowed at all because until that's the case there will always be someone who will do it who isn't too proud.
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    (Original post by thisistheend)
    yes yes, people are cynical about it until it happens to them then they realise it too can happen for them.

    i'm not selling a get rich quick method (because i'm not rich), i don't want your money for my advice. i'm just telling you, it's possible to make a living and never voluntarily offer your labour.

    you might run a mile, but others wouldn't, and haven't. and here I am today, telling YOU something.
    Tell me what you like, the real world doesn't work like that. The Tories are only going to increase their power after Corbyn destroys Labour. I mean see the accusations below-about a short trial being "prostitution", being treated like "garbage". Incredible.

    "I'm telling YOU something". Tell me what you like, the UK public evidently disagrees. Workfare is in place for those too lazy to gain experience. I have done it, many I know have done, it is part of the world. If things get tough you try harder and take every opportunity to add to your CV. Not turn down a trial and spend the next couple of weeks looking for another interview.

    (Original post by Simes)
    That's what the probation period is for: to allow the employer to dismiss a new starter with no notice for not being up to scratch.

    There is no need to make someone turn up and work for no money, that is just abuse.

    If you are willing to prostitute yourself and grovel for a job by working for nothing, then good for you. Other people have some self respect and won't participate in letting an employer break employment law.
    Doing a short trial-"prostituting yourself".

    Getting paid a good salary after a three day delay "working for nothing".

    Doing a good job-"other people have some self respect".

    That people think doing a three day trial is the same as being a prostitute is exactly what is wrong with benefits in the UK.

    (Original post by e aí rapaz)
    I guess I must be a third kind since I have a good attitude to work, I'm committed, and I've been working in different jobs since I was 16, including through uni, and now as a graduate I have a good job. I haven't been unemployed in over 10 years.

    Firstly - OP has SIX YEARS of retail experience. If a shop demands a three day trial after interview and you have six years of experience, they are taking advantage of you. That is unquestionable.

    Three days. What else is she doing in that time? I guess she is earning nothing, doing nothing, and if she turns down the opportunity this may continue for the foreseeable future.

    Secondly - You say that accounting or law make people do unpaid trials? And that it's very tough to get a job in these fields. That's exactly my point of why potential employees shouldn't accept this kind of behaviour from employees.

    In an oversaturated job market, the employer holds the power, and they know it, and they know that they can make unreasonable demands, because people will do anything to secure a job. That willingness to do anything on the behalf of certain job-seekers just validates the behaviour of the employers and encourages them to continue to make these unreasonable demands. That's not an admirable trait of hard-work on the part of the employee, that's desperation (understandable though it might be). The only way to stop it is for everybody to stick to their principles and not give in to the unreasonable demands. It's a matter of principle.

    You think a three day trial is unreasonable...incredible. The public has spoken by voting Tory. You say "the employer is being unreasonable". The public say no-YOU are being unreasonable with your work-shy attitude.

    We can argue this until the cows come home. Bottom line is that the public have spoken with a Tory majority in the House of Commons-welfare is being reformed and workfare introduced so that people DO have to be earning or learning. If you are not-get some experience like everyone else does. Earn or learn, that is the way of the working world. Ideally earn and learn, but at least do one. if a short trial is too much to ask-well you probably aren't that keen on the job anyway. Leave the chance for someone with a proper attitude to go in and get the chance.

    (Original post by marco14196)
    Unpaid work is for chumps without spines. Internships that are unpaid are also a joke. The students who willingly go into those are the scum of the earth because they're essentially saying its ok to treat students and grads like disposable garbage.
    Getting a three day trial before then getting paid a good salary makes someone "Disposable garbage".

    The left really have an entitlement culture that I hope the Tories can fix.
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    Doing a few hours I can see the point,

    Interesting about the claims that accountants and law firms do this as in the link I will post, the thread starter indicates that he rang HMRC who declared unpaid arrangements illegal

    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...s-unpaid-trial
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    (Original post by thisistheend)
    yes yes, people are cynical about it until it happens to them then they realise it too can happen for them.

    i'm not selling a get rich quick method (because i'm not rich), i don't want your money for my advice. i'm just telling you, it's possible to make a living and never voluntarily offer your labour.

    you might run a mile, but others wouldn't, and haven't. and here I am today, telling YOU something.
    You've already said you haven't done well in life and you just sit around waiting for people to come to you. I would rather volunteer 3 days of my life to earn a decent wage and do well in life and not be so lazy, to be honest. Not everyone aspires so low.
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    I would be very suspicious but if I was desperate yes.
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    (Original post by infairverona)
    You've already said you haven't done well in life and you just sit around waiting for people to come to you. I would rather volunteer 3 days of my life to earn a decent wage and do well in life and not be so lazy, to be honest. Not everyone aspires so low.
    no i haven't done well in life, but even so, working in a shop is hardly a step above.
 
 
 
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