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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    The real reason for the Tory love-in with China.
    http://www.theguardian.com/artanddes...lopments-mipim

    Tories love property and land deals more than anything else, the Conservative Party is completely beholden to the hedge funds and offshored property developers who benefit from all this.

    That's also why Boris tours foreign capitals attempting to sell bits of London to them.
    Well they are the party of ****y unproductivem make nothing runtier capitalism...
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Steel stopped being a strategic asset decades ago.
    Energy too?

    Steel is strategic.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    Energy too?

    Steel is strategic.
    You may think steel is strategic, but it stopped being a strategic issue in the late 60s.

    Energy is a strategic issue, but only having enough of it. I.e. Building enough power stations.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Well they are the party of ****y unproductivem make nothing runtier capitalism...
    Is there a party that plans to bring back Productive state industry.

    I also love how you all whine about steel when the car and space/telecommunications industry will probably generate more jobs than we lose from steel.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    You may think steel is strategic, but it stopped being a strategic issue in the late 60s.

    Energy is a strategic issue, but only having enough of it. I.e. Building enough power stations.
    Steel is very much strategic in times of war. Having a strong manufacturing hub is strategic (Just look at the Germans).

    Anyway i do not want to anger our Chinese emperors, i welcome their arrival.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    Steel is very much strategic in times of war. Having a strong manufacturing hub is strategic (Just look at the Germans).

    Anyway i do not want to anger our Chinese emperors, i welcome their arrival.
    In our entire history you can probably count on one hand the number of wars which have come without warning.

    If relations turn so sour with somebody that war is coming then we can construct and operate coal and steel plants (to make us self sufficient for the war economy) within 2 years which is still less notice than we had with the likes of Germany in WW2 or even the US with Pearl Habour (they never knew Pearl would be attacked but it was widely known that war was coming with the Japanese).

    Right now, there's no threat of war.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    In our entire history you can probably count on one hand the number of wars which have come without warning.

    If relations turn so sour with somebody that war is coming then we can construct and operate coal and steel plants (to make us self sufficient for the war economy) within 2 years which is still less notice than we had with the likes of Germany in WW2 or even the US with Pearl Habour (they never knew Pearl would be attacked but it was widely known that war was coming with the Japanese).

    Right now, there's no threat of war.
    1. Can we afford it?
    2. Can we obtain the expertise in such a short time frame?
    3. Can we build the capacity in such a short time?
    4. Will we be able to obtain the necessary economics of scale?

    LOL delusional.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    1. Can we afford it?
    2. Can we obtain the expertise in such a short time frame?
    3. Can we build the capacity in such a short time?
    4. Will we be able to obtain the necessary economics of scale?

    LOL delusional.
    1. Yes - Basically you turn that £730bn government budget, slap on some taxes and cut everything that's not essential diverting it to defense
    2. That's a question, depends how skilled steelwork is (i.e. can you take a million women and train them in 12 months to do it)
    3. Yes, not a problem with modern methods (this is actually the easiest bit since government would destroy the planning system to prevent any objection)
    4. In a war economy that's not the concern although we do have the resources to make it in the ground.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    1. Yes - Basically you turn that £730bn government budget, slap on some taxes and cut everything that's not essential diverting it to defense
    2. That's a question, depends how skilled steelwork is (i.e. can you take a million women and train them in 12 months to do it)
    3. Yes, not a problem with modern methods (this is actually the easiest bit since government would destroy the planning system to prevent any objection)
    4. In a war economy that's not the concern although we do have the resources to make it in the ground.
    1. That's madness
    2. No workers go and train/learn something else they don't wait until that particular industry comes back, better yet they move overseas
    3. No we can't
    4. No you don't since you need to be operating for years

    Know when you have lost an argument. I do not want to anger our imperial Chinese masters any further, i hope they can bring us efficient and honest governance!

    In Mao we trust.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    1. That's madness
    2. No workers go and train/learn something else they don't wait until that particular industry comes back, better yet they move overseas
    3. No we can't
    4. No you don't since you need to be operating for years

    Know when you have lost an argument. I do not want to anger our imperial Chinese masters any further, i hope they can bring us efficient and honest governance!

    In Mao we trust.
    You've completely missed your own point. You brought up the war scenario and nothing you've said has made me feel like i need to protect steel.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)

    Energy is a strategic issue, but only having enough of it. I.e. Building enough power stations.
    So lets let China run our strategic resource and rip us off whilst we are at it...

    Tories: Letting communists run our Nuclear Industry :yy:
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    Steel is very much strategic in times of war. Having a strong manufacturing hub is strategic (Just look at the Germans).

    Anyway i do not want to anger our Chinese emperors, i welcome their arrival.
    I'm not aware we're at war.

    Do you not mind Belgian pension fund, middle eastern sovereign funds or South American investment funds buying things in the uk? Or is it just China you don't like investing.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    I'm not aware we're at war.

    Do you not mind Belgian pension fund, middle eastern sovereign funds or South American investment funds buying things in the uk? Or is it just China you don't like investing.
    They are offering more than just money. China dwarfs any of those funds, they have the most £££££ available.

    Like i said i do not want to anger our new imperial masters. If we have to lease London to them, then so be it.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    They are offering more than just money. China dwarfs any of those funds, they have the most £££££ available.

    Like i said i do not want to anger our new imperial masters. If we have to lease London to them, then so be it.
    How do you know they have more money?
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Steel is not the entirety of British industry. Steel and mining output decreased, but automotives, chemicals, weapons, aerospace etc. all increased massively.
    70% of steel workers changed occupation because they weren't needed. By 1987 it took less than half the man hours to produce a liquid tonne of steel than it did a decade before. France lost 70% of it's steel workforce, the United States over 60%, even Japan almost 35%. It wasn't a Thatcherite conspiracy against steel workers, but an overall WORLDWIDE trend. The taxpayer had to cough up a staggering £1 billion in 1981 to cover British Steel's losses. The idea that the taxpayer should foot the bill because some socialists get hard ons over the thought of working in heavy industry is nonsensical.
    Didn't you know cheap chinese imports made it like that in the first place. Also areas such as;
    Taiwan
    Sweden was cheap back in the day
    India (A lot of companies outsourced due to high bills)
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    OMG, is that right?! (Hastily goes off to check news sites.)
    Yes heard it on BBC news Wednesday night.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    How do you know they have more money?
    It's a pretty well known fact. They're buying a toy shop for 100m in London today
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    It's a pretty well known fact. They're buying a toy shop for 100m in London today
    Try doing some other research on investment and don't use the word China.

    You'll be very interested to find out who's buying what.

    The Internet will also allow you to find out what uk based asset management conpani s are buying up both here and abroad.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    The fear people have of Chinese investment is quite amusing. These aren't our enemies, they are capitalists that want to line their pockets. I'm all for mass investment from the US, Euro-zone, China and India.
    Sure but when the debate about Trident comes round again, you can be sure the Conservatives will start saying "we don't know what's going to happen with China...."

    And also is this investment a gift that the Chinese are giving us, or is it loans ie we will have to repay it with interest.

    Because this now starts to sound like debt, or more borrowing from abroad.

    Is it not time for the country to start living within its means, rather than having a Chancellor who is going cap in hand to the Chinese, trying to layer more borrowing on to our existing borrowing.
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    Sure but when the debate about Trident comes round again, you can be sure the Conservatives will start saying "we don't know what's going to happen with China...."

    And also is this investment a gift that the Chinese are giving us, or is it loans ie we will have to repay it with interest.

    Because this now starts to sound like debt, or more borrowing from abroad.

    Is it not time for the country to start living within its means, rather than having a Chancellor who is going cap in hand to the Chinese, trying to layer more borrowing on to our existing borrowing.
    I assumed it was buying stakes in our firms although its business debt anyway, not government.
 
 
 
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