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    (Original post by TheTruthTeller)
    Can you have a muslim jew? If not Jews are not an ethnicity. Case=solved
    According to his logic, If I converted to Judaism I would be a South Asian non-Jew.
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    (Original post by stochasticking)
    According to his logic, If I converted to Judaism I would be a South Asian non-Jew.
    Jewish bloodlines are 100% mixed with other ethnicites of their host countries due to the Jewish diaspora. Anybody in the 21st century after thousands of years of mixing with other non-jewish populations who claims that Jews are somehow still an ethnicity are deluded to say the least.
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    (Original post by TheTruthTeller)
    Jewish bloodlines are 100% mixed with other ethnicites of their host countries due to the Jewish diaspora. Anybody in the 21st century after thousands of years of mixing with other non-jewish populations who claims that Jews are somehow still an ethnicity are deluded to say the least.
    There are a small population of indigenous Jews who have lived in Palestine/Israel for generations ; they are small. So 100% mixed isn't quite true.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    These kinds of semantics are important. The term Islamophobia comes with a lot of weight. If you get called it in public discourse, you could lose your job and become very alienated. What I'm saying is that it doesn't deserve so much weight.
    I think you're very narrowly and unnecessarily narrowing the definitions of both 'anti-semitism' and 'islamaphobia'.

    If 'anti-semitism' is the hatred of jews for being Jews, then what is it called when you hate the ideology of the religion. And what's the equivalent of anti-semitism for Muslims?

    When most people are accused of being Islamaphobic, they are launching personal attacks on Muslims themselves for being Muslims, rather than for their ideologies.

    I don't see the need for the distinction nor for narrowing the definitions of both words.

    Always look to the substance behind the label rather than the label itself.
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    (Original post by TheTruthTeller)
    Jewish bloodlines are 100% mixed with other ethnicites of their host countries due to the Jewish diaspora. Anybody in the 21st century after thousands of years of mixing with other non-jewish populations who claims that Jews are somehow still an ethnicity are deluded to say the least.
    ^This. For people to think that those type of Jews are still Semites is also quite delusional. If what you say is true then the current Arabs are purer Semites than the current Jews.
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    (Original post by Masih ad-Dajjal)
    because people who are literally insane believe in this myth of covert Jewish power.
    I don't think that it is fair to call such people "literally insane". They merely believe what they have been told.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    There's no such thing as islamaphobia.
    If you go onto The Guardian website, and type "islamophobe" into the comments section, It will be underlined in red, meaning "there is no such word in our dictionary".

    If The Guardian does not recognise the existence of "Islamophobe", I think that it is safe to assume that no such thing exists.
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    (Original post by Raymat)
    For those who think that Jews are one ethnicity and can only be one are complete morons. To be considered a Jew by the Jewish community you have to fall within the Jewish bloodline and this ruling is quite lenient as the ruling states if your mother is a Jew you're a Jew. One Jewish women can marry a Black man and have a child. Another Jewish women can marry an Indian man and have child. Both children will be considered 'Jewish' by bloodline but racially this is not so as they are racially different. There are different ethnic groups amongst the Jews and this bloodline ruling can be one of the reasons for this happening. Jews are capable of being different races through this concept of bloodline heritage. You can't claim that Jews are all one 'race/ethnicity' all of a sudden just because they have Jewish blood and a continuous Jewish maternal ancestry. Don't be stupid.

    This bloodline ruling is a religious ruling that originates from an odd and old fashioned way of thinking and in no way does it comply with the current scientific way we see or define race/ethnicity. Just because they consider themselves as one 'race/ethnicity' doesn't make it factually so. Just because they're Jews doesn't mean everything they say is socially/logically/scientifically correct and the same goes for Judaism.

    Lets keep up with the times and not take everyone's word as truth. Jews are described as an 'ethnoreligious' group. I don't see the word 'race' or 'ethnicity' in there. Jews who suffer discrimination are of the sort who identify as Jews so this discrimination is more towards religious discrimination than actual racism. Considering not all Jews are true Semites it is also questionable as to whether anti-Jewish = anti-Semitism.
    So, you agree that "Jewishness" is something that is inherited rather than conciously decided upon, as many Jews in Europe in the 1940s found to their cost.

    It was not what they believed, but who their antecedents were.

    QED.
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    (Original post by Achaea)
    Which liberal TSR members talk about Muslims (rather than about Islam as an ideology) in a 'vitriolic' way? Give some examples of things that have been said.

    Funny you're saying that seen as most people who are questioning this are outright Islamophobes themselves who have been guilty of this behaviour.

    You can deny all you want Achaea but you're one of the usuals that participate in this behaviour. Criticism of Islam and repeated attempts to demonise Muslims are 2 very different things.

    Many example in the religious forums. It would be a waste of time to copy and paste most of the threads in there to prove a point that has already been proven.

    (Original post by Mal Baadshah)
    I agree Islam is not a race and Jews can be seen as an ethnic group.

    But I'd rather not victimise anyone because both groups have done atrocious wrongs in the name of discrimination and hatred. So I don't get the purpose of this at all.
    Agreed. Neither side is innocent, there will always be extremists on both sides.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Now you are misrepresenting what I said.
    I'm saying it's inappropriate to draw a distinction between Jews killed for being Jews and Muslims killed for being Muslims.

    Do you think in the Bosnian massacre in which 8000 Muslims were killed for being Muslim, that the perpetrator asked each one their views on religion?
    So, you are claiming that Serbian paramilitaries are comparable to current UK sceptics who challenge the verses in the Quran that permit slavery, sex with slaves, wife beating, and the killing of those who oppose Islam.

    Fair enough. I understand your position now.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Of course they are. But Muslims are also killed and persecuted for just being Muslims.
    I don't see the difference in killing a Jew because he's Jewish or killing a Muslim because they're Muslim - both are as bad as each other.
    Please cite examples of Muslims being killed in their thousands simply for being Muslims, as opposed to programmes of ethnic cleansing or reclaiming previously conquered territories.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    If you go onto The Guardian website, and type "islamophobe" into the comments section, It will be underlined in red, meaning "there is no such word in our dictionary".

    If The Guardian does not recognise the existence of "Islamophobe", I think that it is safe to assume that no such thing exists.
    So there is a sqwiggly red line under a term so that means that it doesn't exist? :rolleyes:

    http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/de...h/Islamophobia

    Oxford dictionary recognises it.
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    (Original post by stochasticking)
    A Jew is not a race.
    Depends how quickly they are running.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    So, you are claiming that Serbian paramilitaries are comparable to current UK sceptics who challenge the verses in the Quran that permit slavery, sex with slaves, wife beating, and the killing of those who oppose Islam.

    Fair enough. I understand your position now.
    No, not even slightly and i'm not sure where on earth you have got that from. You are just making up my position.
    I literally just said 'Jews that are persecuted for being Jews is a comparable situation to Muslims who are persecuted for being Muslims'.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Then I don't understand the relevance of this. Because you're obsessing over the label -rather than the substance. Disliking Islam as a religion is comparable to disliking Judaism as a religion. Just as disliking Jews for merely being Jews is the same as disliking Muslims for being Muslim.

    Both ideologies are criticized and both Jews and Muslims have been persecuted for being Jews and Muslims.

    You seem to obsessing over the labels of 'anti-semitism' and 'islamapahobia'.
    No, you seem to be unaware of the socio-religio-political history of the region. The persecution was very much similar to the persecution of the Jews. It was because of what you were percieved to be, rather than what you actually believed.

    People were slaughtered because of their demographic, not because of their religious beliefs. Do you really think that an attractive 18 year old from the Muslim demographic would have been spared gang rape if she claimed to be an atheist?

    Grow up!
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    (Original post by QE2)
    No, you seem to be unaware of the socio-religio-political history of the region. The persecution was very much similar to the persecution of the Jews. It was because of what you were percieved to be, rather than what you actually believed.

    People were slaughtered because of their demographic, not because of their religious beliefs. Do you really think that an attractive 18 year old from the Muslim demographic would have been spared gang rape if she claimed to be an atheist?

    Grow up!
    If you're going to engage in personal attacks I won't bother responding.
    Jews being killed for being Jewish is comparable to Muslims being killed for being Muslim.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    When most people are accused of being Islamaphobic, they are launching personal attacks on Muslims themselves for being Muslims, rather than for their ideologies.
    Clear bollox!

    I have been called an Islamophobe for highlighting the verses from the Quran that permit slavery, wife beating and the permission to kill those who oppose Islam.
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    People who are seen as Jewish are not a race most would be classed as part of the white race and some are even classed as Black
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    (Original post by NaTaLiiA513)
    Funny you're saying that seen as most people who are questioning this are outright Islamophobes themselves who have been guilty of this behaviour.

    Criticism of Islam and repeated attempts to demonise Muslims are 2 very different things.

    Many example in the religious forums. It would be a waste of time to copy and paste most of the threads in there to prove a point that has already been proven.
    As you are so sure of your position, cite posts from people who demonise Muslims in general, rather than taking issue with individuals (or the ideology) for defending slavery, wife beating, etc.
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    I would have to say that I am Islamophobic because I fear the influence of Islam as a political force.

    However, I don't hate individual Muslims for following Islam. I think a lot of them probably don't know what they're following or were brainwashed by their families into think it's right.

    Ironically, one of the things I dislike about Islam is that it can be anti-semitic. I don't like their views on Israel, and I have been disturbed by some of the stuff I hear Muslims saying about Jewish people. That has done more to turn me against Islamic culture and religion than anything else could have. Their views on homosexuality and women's rights are also a force I don't want to see in Western society.

    I feel like my left is gone now, the one that cared about women's rights and freedom of expression. Now the left is just like the right, appeasing the followers of some Abrahamic religion and telling us we're not allowed to criticise them because they're foreigners. Oh, but it was fine to criticise Christianity when we were fighting cultural forces associated with that. But now we just have to let Islamic cultural standards undo all our hard work in the name of tolerating other cultures. I'm not okay with women being told to cover their heads or dress modestly if they don't want to risk being raped by a Muslim man.

    Between the left's support for Islam and the right's support for Christianity, the values I've spent my whole life fighting against are now the values that will be forced on everyone one way or the other. I'm not happy about that. Christianity is just the lesser of two evils, because we'll only be sent back to the 1950's rather than the 7th century.
 
 
 

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