Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
x Turn on thread page Beta

is evil really necessary ? watch

Announcements
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    What might be evil to you might be good to another or vice versa.
    That does not depict subjectivity but a person's inability to acknowledge or accept an objective concept.

    Many things I have view points on may be correct or incorrect as well.

    allying with Stalin during ww2 than hitler both evil people that did evil things but we picked the lesser of two evils in my eyes.
    The dynamics behind the cold war and world war two is very complex. However, the "evil" behind these men were not known until after war had started (hitler) or after records were revealed (stalin). Most historical articles I have read depict information from both Germany and Russia as being behind a curtain during these times.

    Otherwise, Germany was actively attacking Western European countries (France, Britain, etc.) where as Russia was not. "Axis Powers" launched the first attack against the world, in which all who were attacked decided to work together.
    Online

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by da_nolo)
    That does not depict subjectivity but a person's inability to acknowledge or accept an objective concept.
    Many things I have view points on may be correct or incorrect as well.
    Okay so let's say that there are objective moral truths. If every person only accepts some and not others, and in the end doesn't know what's right or wrong, then in the end we all hold subjective moral views, thus human morality is left being entirely subjective.

    Thus moral skepticism: Objective moral knowledge is impossible.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Retired_Messiah)
    Okay so let's say that there are objective moral truths. If every person only accepts some and not others, and in the end doesn't know what's right or wrong, then in the end we all hold subjective moral views, thus human morality is left being entirely subjective.

    Thus moral skepticism: Objective moral knowledge is impossible.
    1. Except we all have the ability to not just learn about right and wrong we have a "built in" desire to find out what is right/wrong. Ex: infants and children reacting to moral situations.

    Most people understand what is right/wrong - even those of us who decide against our own knowledge. People intrinsically know and we can see this when using questions about a person. Ex: "would you want to have another person determine your worth?"

    Above is a generic question I am sure. However, when we actually think about it and consider history - there are many accounts of govts., groups, etc. that determine another person's worth. Historians quickly point out how unfair these situations are. We recognize how we would not want to be in such situation.


    2.To say we have views or opinions about objective morals - I do not see how this can change what is, simply because we don't understand what is. For example: all things that are true. Truth pertains to one existence. we either have knowledge of truth or do not. Our views match it or do not. Truth doesn't change, just a person's viewpoint on what is true. If I hold keys in my hand but tell you they are knives since I can cut tape with them. I will still be holding keys and not knives.
    • TSR Support Team
    • Study Helper
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    TSR Support Team
    Study Helper
    (Original post by Vlad83)
    I am not sure whether or not evil is really necessary - in the general scheme of things or otherwise. However, it is possible that those two (the good and the evil) somehow maintain some sort of a natural balance in the world, a natural order of things .. if you like. I mean it could be a natural way of things for there to be those two opposite "forces" and co-existing with each other so to speak. And could be unnatural if there was just one but not the other. But ...
    What is "good" and what is "evil" anyway ? ..
    I think these are strictly subjective concepts. Or emotional concepts even.
    I think they were probably invented or defined by the human mind or the brain. They were its product.
    And it is possible that the Only place for these two concepts is in the mind, in the thoughts. Maybe not only those of humans, but any possible thinking beings you could imagine. No less .. but not more either. Otherwise ...
    I often thought about this one - suppose there is no human brain in the universe at all (or no brains of the living things or beings or thinking creatures at all), so no consciousness, no thoughts etc.
    Then what is "good" and what is "evil" ? .. And how do they objectively matter in the real material world, in the universe ? What difference do they make ? Or in which sphere of the existence ? How do you then define or detect them, what role do they play ? (I suspect the real objective answer to these questions could actually be "None", "irrelevant", not even "insignificant".
    Am I thinking like a machine? Quite possibly. But maybe that is the key !
    Yes, maybe one could argue that it was the advanced power of the thinking brain or the human mind to define and conceptualize and give "birth" to these two concepts, the "good" and the "evil", to recognize them sort of, to sense them. The thinking mind which more generally gave rise to the concept of "morality" and such. But please do not forget that human beings (and probably any mind) are emotional and probably never 100 % objective. Therefore, an error might be in built in their nature and their perception of reality etc.
    But what do those two concepts - the "good" and the "evil" actually matter ? Outside our conventional values and understanding but on a higher level, in the material world and order of things ? What is their importance ? Apart from a small "theory" or ideas in my first paragraph, I am not sure at all ...
    I honestly don't think it's to do with epistemology at all. I think it's all to do with the philosophy of language and our own concept of language itself.

    But I do agree with the majority of what you said; good and evil comes from language and definitions we have conjured up.
    • TSR Support Team
    • Study Helper
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    TSR Support Team
    Study Helper
    I am a strong believer in evil as a concept is necessary to understand the world around us, and how humans think.

    I'll be doing my dissertation in my 3rd year on The Concept of Evil (in [Post-] Apocalyptic Literature).

    Ya'll have given me a lot to think about!
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    wow its nice to know there is still a spark of debate on the internet.when i started this thread.. i was expecting people to just bicker and comments to degrade to name calling and comments like ( shurrup, no you shurrup) but ... human does still have potential.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Agree with @Trill
    Without evil you can't define good.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Some say Escobar was evil, I say he was a badman... and no, they're not the same thing
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Retired_Messiah)
    Okay so let's say that there are objective moral truths. If every person only accepts some and not others, and in the end doesn't know what's right or wrong, then in the end we all hold subjective moral views, thus human morality is left being entirely subjective.

    Thus moral skepticism: Objective moral knowledge is impossible.
    a person with free will choosing to do something that is not morally right does not mean morals is not objective. if morals are objective, this does not mean we can not choose anything other than that which is moral.

    we can observe people making different decisions but even those who choose this or that have some basis of wrong. people take time in order to degrade to doing the wrong thing and the right thing. this is an education to perform according to conscious. a thing we all have but can ignore.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    What is considered evil is just subjective. That's it.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by canyou)
    What is considered evil is just subjective. That's it.
    based on?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by the bear)
    some people choose to live in the shadow.
    But why few peoples choose to live in the shadow?
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Trichakra)
    But why few peoples choose to live in the shadow?
    we are creatures of light *
    Online

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by da_nolo)
    based on?
    Take a contentious moral issue. Some see abortion as ok, some see it as evil.

    Who is correct, and why?
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Retired_Messiah)
    Take a contentious moral issue. Some see abortion as ok, some see it as evil.

    Who is correct, and why?
    So, because there are different opinions about an item or thought or issue, that suggests morality or how we view evil as being subjective?
    Online

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by da_nolo)
    So, because there are different opinions about an item or thought or issue, that suggests morality or how we view evil as being subjective?
    What else would it possibly suggest?
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Retired_Messiah)
    What else would it possibly suggest?
    that we have free will. even as morality is objective and the concept/definition of what evil actually exist as, is objective - there are many ways for people to generate their own opinions that could be correct or incorrect.

    Much like a personal opinion on whether or not person A has lied. Or if gravity is a pull or push force. Or if the world is flat. we can have an inaccurate opinion on these things/thoughts.
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Retired_Messiah)
    Take a contentious moral issue. Some see abortion as ok, some see it as evil.

    Who is correct, and why?
    Does consensus decide what is moral?

    The vast majority of people would say torturing little toddlers for fun is wrong. Undoubtedly, a few extreme nihilists would disagree.

    Who is correct and why? Or is there no correct answer?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Whitewell)
    Does consensus decide what is moral?

    The vast majority of people would say torturing little toddlers for fun is wrong. Undoubtedly, a few extreme nihilists would disagree.

    Who is correct and why? Or is there no correct answer?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    The most extreme examples might be easiest situations to judge as moral and immoral. Perhaps one could look at extremes, simplify them in explanation, and then apply it to less obvious situations?

    Aristotle thought all knowledge exists but requires us to actively seek knowledge to descover/rediscover it - right?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by da_nolo)
    The most extreme examples might be easiest situations to judge as moral and immoral. Perhaps one could look at extremes, simplify them in explanation, and then apply it to less obvious situations?

    Aristotle thought all knowledge exists but requires us to actively seek knowledge to descover/rediscover it - right?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    You mean extremely immoral acts are easy to identify as immoral, and so we identify how we decide those acts are immoral and create a theory of ethics around it, which we can apply to less obvious situations.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
 
 
 
Poll
Do you agree with the proposed ban on plastic straws and cotton buds?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.