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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    Your assertions are quite off target in the sense that Christianity (New Testament only kind) is a religion that is already more suited to secularism, just like the faiths of Buddhism or Sikhism.

    It's not a question of secularism mocking, satirising or humbling the crap out of anything, but more so, that the nature of Christianity allows this to happen.



    As your argument seems to stem from the premise made above ("Christianity is more amenable to secularist principles", this follow-on argument is again incorrect.

    You also seem to have conflated the secularism with a propagation of inalienable rights, unseemly understanding what either concepts entail.
    Blimey it seems you can make coherent points when you know your stance is not so pregnable :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by MJlover)
    I'm not a coward, I just know I will be banned and even reported to the police for stating the rules of my faith. at least I've defended my religion from ganging-up of you lot. Which is something I can't say for others.
    You won't be banned for stating the rules of your religion; that is nonsense. You can't have much confidence that it isn't a hateful religion if you think that.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    So are you able to provide a coherent argument, in defense of your position, this time around?
    No i think there is some truth to what you said. You see the difference between me and you is I am open to changing my viewpoint and interacting honestly with others and learning
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    You won't be banned for stating the rules of your religion; that is nonsense. You can't have much confidence that it isn't a hateful religion if you think that.
    No I think the rules are wrong here, and I'm pretty sure another user had told me about the fact that talk of apostasy laws can get you banned.

    I think the ignorance and shallowness of TSRians toward Islam leads them to reporting such posts.
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    (Original post by The Assassin)
    I was going to mention this; I doubt the notion of satire was the most significant thing to make Christianity change rather than any kind of inherent nature of the religion itself.
    The religion, as written, hasn't changed. What has happened with Judaism and Christianity is that their adherents have lived in Europe and gone through centuries of enlightenment, reformation and exposure to scientific education. People have gradually got used to the fact that the old superstitions no longer represent an absolute truth. This has accelerated through the twentieth century to the extent that Europe is now largely secular, with no true religious belief that isn't just habit and fear of leaving it.

    Islam, on the other hand, has been stuck in the seventh century, partly because of the nature of the Koran, and partly because of the lack of education and wealth in Asia (and the Arab world specifically).

    This difference is being brought into sharp focus because Islam is rubbing up against the western democracies more and more since the discovery of oil and 1948, and by immigration from the Indian sub-continent to Europe.

    The main western exception is the USA, where many of its immigrants held extreme religious beliefs and, indeed, migrated because they were no longer acceptable in a developing Europe. These people have given the USA a continuing legacy of superstitious backwardness in an otherwise advanced country.
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    (Original post by MJlover)
    No I think the rules are wrong here, and I'm pretty sure another user had told me about the fact that talk of apostasy laws can get you banned.

    I think the ignorance and shallowness of TSRians toward Islam leads them to reporting such posts.
    There is indeed much ignorance and shallowness on TSR, but being upset at the thought of execution for losing faith in your religion is neither a form of ignorance nor shallow.

    I've had temporary bans and loads of warnings and posts deleted for teasing trolls, even threatened with a ban for asking if a hedgehog would work as a marshmallow toasting fork. You must agree that posting on here advocating "death for disbelievers" is a little stronger than that.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    The religion, as written, hasn't changed. What has happened with Judaism and Christianity is that their adherents have lived in Europe and gone through centuries of enlightenment, reformation and exposure to scientific education. People have gradually got used to the fact that the old superstitions no longer represent an absolute truth. This has accelerated through the twentieth century to the extent that Europe is now largely secular, with no true religious belief that isn't just habit and fear of leaving it.

    Islam, on the other hand, has been stuck in the seventh century, partly because of the nature of the Koran, and partly because of the lack of education and wealth in Asia (and the Arab world specifically).

    This difference is being brought into sharp focus because Islam is rubbing up against the western democracies more and more since the discovery of oil and 1948, and by immigration from the Indian sub-continent to Europe.

    The main western exception is the USA, where many of its immigrants held extreme religious beliefs and, indeed, migrated because they were no longer acceptable in a developing Europe. These people have given the USA a continuing legacy of superstitious backwardness in an otherwise advanced country.
    No, I agree with this, I'm just unsure if satire would take much credit in it's ability for making 'Christianity what it is today' (to paraphrase the first point). The adherents, however, like you say, have gone through thoughts periods of progression to fit in to society of the 21st Century and whatnot.

    Will Islam do the same in a century? Only time will tell...
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    (Original post by MJlover)
    No I think the rules are wrong here, and I'm pretty sure another user had told me about the fact that talk of apostasy laws can get you banned.

    I think the ignorance and shallowness of TSRians toward Islam leads them to reporting such posts.
    Don't be silly. We all know that the wages of apostasy is death. There, I've said it.

    I suspect you are being bullied and misled by Islamic posters who may have told you lies about the TSR rules to make sure no Moslems are willing break ranks and to tell the truth about Islam's laws.

    This ought to make you think about how proud you are of Islam if you think its rules are so horrific that they would cause TSR's rules to be broken. Some of them are horrific, of course, but TSR allows discussion of them. It is and education website, after all.
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    (Original post by MJlover)
    I'm not a coward, I just know I will be banned and even reported to the police for stating the rules of my faith. at least I've defended my religion from ganging-up of you lot. Which is something I can't say for others.
    But you've not defendend anything

    you don't have the courage to actually say you support the murder of people who leave islam
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Good historical summary
    "You have already rated a post by this user recently!" :-(
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    (Original post by The Assassin)
    No, I agree with this, I'm just unsure if satire would take much credit in it's ability for making 'Christianity what it is today' (to paraphrase the first point). The adherents, however, like you say, have gone through thoughts periods of progression to fit in to society of the 21st Century and whatnot.

    Will Islam do the same in a century? Only time will tell...
    I think satire (though not modern satire, I'm thinking of the period of the Enlightenment) has played its part, but education's role has been much bigger.
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    (Original post by Simes)
    "You have already rated a post by this user recently!" :-(
    You are a gentleman. It is a pity that a few Moslems cannot find it in them to openly discuss what holds Islam back, and what will happen to the mindset of Moslems in the decades to come. All they want to do is defend, defend, defend.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    But you've not defendend anything

    you don't have the courage to actually say you support the murder of people who leave islam
    Actually for the 6 years I've been on TSR, I have argued that the Islamic punishment for apostasy is stoning. I didn't have a problem with it until I posted about the topic a month or so ago.

    Here is the last post that I made stating that the Islamic punishment for apostasy is stoning/death :

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...9#post59964159

    So I've said it before, but another Muslim TSRian had told me that I would get banned for it. So I stopped posting about this topic since.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    The world would be a far better place if it were illegal to teach, train or indoctrinate anyone under the age of eighteen in or about any religion in any publicly-funded establishment, including any registered charity. The demise of religion would probably be hastened, too.
    I believe I benefited from my C of E primary school because religion was used to teach us how to be fair, giving and forgiving.

    Like Chaotic Butterfly says, we were not exactly taught about overrunning cities, massacring the men and raping the women, or even about common things Christianity is criticised for like no sex before marriage or masturbation or whatever.

    We are not Americans in this country and the basic position of particularly a declining Anglican church is an uncontroversial one: charity and self-sacrifice are good and being nice to everyone no matter what their sex, race or standing is good. The Gospels, particularly when filtered through inherently sappy lefty teachers, are pretty good vehicles for teaching that stuff - I would ask you with what you would replace it?

    In my view pushing religion underground into private faith schools will only encourage insularity among religious parents and radicalise remaining Christian kids. Besides, Christianity in general and Anglicanism in particular are in precipitate decline. There is no need for it to be accelerated even if you really hate religion.
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    (Original post by MJlover)
    Actually for the 6 years I've been on TSR, I have argued that the Islamic punishment for apostasy is stoning. I didn't have a problem with it until I posted about the topic a month or so ago.

    Here is the last post that I made stating that the Islamic punishment for apostasy is stoning/death :

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...9#post59964159

    So I've said it before, but another Muslim TSRian had told me that I would get banned for it. So I stopped posting about this topic since.
    Do you actually agree with this punishment? And if yes, would you consider yourself a moderate Muslim ?
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    In my view pushing religion underground into private faith schools will only encourage insularity among religious parents and radicalise remaining Christian kids.
    But those private faith schools are registered as charities , and receiving public subsidy. My suggested law would make it difficult for many to exist.
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    (Original post by demx9)
    Do you actually agree with this punishment? And if yes, would you consider yourself a moderate Muslim ?
    I do because disagreeing with it would question whether I'm actually in this faith. Who am I to disagree with God's commandments, or you>?

    I don't believe in media created labels such as 'moderate' or 'extreme'. We have a different understanding of those words.
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    (Original post by MJlover)
    I'm not a coward, I just know I will be banned and even reported to the police for stating the rules of my faith. at least I've defended my religion
    Do you think that it is unreasonable to be criticised for calling for the brutal execution of people, simply because they are in a loving, consensual, adult relationship?
    Or for the execution of apostates?
    Or the persecution of homosexuals?

    Do you think that laws against incitement to violence are wrong?
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Do you think that it is unreasonable to be criticised for calling for the brutal execution of people, simply because they are in a loving, consensual, adult relationship?
    Or for the execution of apostates?
    Or the persecution of homosexuals?

    Do you think that laws against incitement to violence are wrong?
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...9#post59964159
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    (Original post by MJlover)
    I do because disagreeing with it would question whether I'm actually in this faith. Who am I to disagree with God's commandments, or you>?

    I don't believe in media created labels such as 'moderate' or 'extreme'. We have a different understanding of those words.
    Would you think most Muslims you know hold your views ?
 
 
 
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