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    I'm a Tory and he is completely useless. Objectively speaking, what state are most of the ministries in at the moment? Foreign policy - There was talk from senior diplomats about loss of UK power recently, Economy - Low growth and selling off the whole country to foreigners, Home Secretary - Awful authoritarian measures like the snoopers charter, Environment - Recent talk (by former Tory ministers in the Major government) of failure to tackle climate change, Welfare - Osborne and IDS can't even get the consent to put through the required measures, and these required measures are completely questionable. Defence - Low investment and constitutional crisis over intervention of the Army in political issues on Sunday, not to mention poor handling of ISIS and Russia, Education - It's a complete mess, none of the reforms have had any improvement and the testing obsession is having a very negative effect on the welfare of children.
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    (Original post by whorace)
    I'm a Tory and he is completely useless. Objectively speaking, what state are most of the ministries in at the moment? Foreign policy - There was talk from senior diplomats about loss of UK power recently, Economy - Low growth and selling off the whole country to foreigners, Home Secretary - Awful authoritarian measures like the snoopers charter, Environment - Recent talk (by former Tory ministers in the Major government) of failure to tackle climate change, Welfare - Osborne and IDS can't even get the consent to put through the required measures, and these required measures are completely questionable. Defence - Low investment and constitutional crisis over intervention of the Army in political issues on Sunday, not to mention poor handling of ISIS and Russia, Education - It's a complete mess, none of the reforms have had any improvement and the testing obsession is having a very negative effect on the welfare of children.
    Are you sure you're a Tory? Could you really see an administration led by Osborne, May or Boris being any better? You sound like a progressive they've left behind who'd quite possibly be closer to the more moderate members of the Labour Party.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Are you sure you're a Tory? Could you really see an administration led by Osborne, May or Boris being any better? You sound like a progressive they've left behind who'd quite possibly be closer to the more moderate members of the Labour Party.
    I support the lords and monarchy.
    I support the market economy.
    I support conscription.
    I support leaving the EU but remaining a member of the common market.
    I have Catholic social views.

    But
    I support the principle of universal healthcare
    I support investment in renewable energy and addressing climate change
    I support investment in emergency services and police
    I support continued membership of NATO and the UN
    I support the principle of universal and free education

    I don't really know what that would be described as.
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    (Original post by whorace)
    I support the lords and monarchy.
    I support the market economy.
    I support conscription.
    I support leaving the EU but remaining a member of the common market.
    I have Catholic social views.

    But
    I support the principle of universal healthcare
    I support investment in renewable energy and addressing climate change
    I support investment in emergency services and police
    I support continued membership of NATO and the UN
    I support the principle of universal and free education

    I don't really know what that would be described as.
    Real mix to be honest, sounds like your pretty liberal/progressive on some areas but authoritarian on others (anti-Snooper's Charter, anti-standardised school testing and pro-environment, but pro-conscription and "Catholic social values" which I'm guessing refers to anti-abortion/same-sex marriage?) I'd suggest you're ideologically closest to UKIP but wouldn't fit in percectly anywhere and recognise how incompetant they'd be.
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    No I do not think any significant reform will be achieved. Let's just have the referendum and make a decision.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Are you sure you're a Tory? Could you really see an administration led by Osborne, May or Boris being any better? You sound like a progressive they've left behind who'd quite possibly be closer to the more moderate members of the Labour Party.
    Blairites aren't exactly any different from Tories.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Real mix to be honest, sounds like your pretty liberal/progressive on some areas but authoritarian on others (anti-Snooper's Charter, anti-standardised school testing and pro-environment, but pro-conscription and "Catholic social values" which I'm guessing refers to anti-abortion/same-sex marriage?) I'd suggest you're ideologically closest to UKIP but wouldn't fit in percectly anywhere and recognise how incompetant they'd be.
    UKIP are too nationalist and xenophobic, I support multiculturalism and think we have a responsibility to migrants displaced by war and poverty.
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    (Original post by whorace)
    UKIP are too nationalist and xenophobic, I support multiculturalism and think we have a responsibility to migrants displaced by war and poverty.
    You don't fit in anywhere, so defo the Lib Dems
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    (Original post by Bupdeeboowah)
    Blairites aren't exactly any different from Tories.
    Did the Tories support the minimum wage?
    Did the Tories support devolution?
    Did the Tories support tax credits?
    Did the Tories massively increase the number of students accessing higher education?
    Did the Tories introduce SureStart?

    I'm far from being a Blairite, but it's ludicrous to insinuate that they're just Tories.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    You don't fit in anywhere, so defo the Lib Dems
    Which is who I voted for but i'd still say i'm most like an old Tory, like Anthony Eden
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    (Original post by whorace)
    Which is who I voted for but i'd still say i'm most like an old Tory, like Anthony Eden
    Indeed, things change. But the Lib Dems don't tend to take kindly to eurosceptism, traditional social values or conscription from what I've seen.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Did the Tories support the minimum wage?
    Did the Tories support devolution?
    Did the Tories support tax credits?
    Did the Tories massively increase the number of students accessing higher education?
    Did the Tories introduce SureStart?

    I'm far from being a Blairite, but it's ludicrous to insinuate that they're just Tories.
    1. The new living wage
    2. The Northern powerhouse, English votes for English issues, and Osborne allowing councils to keep their business rates
    3. Tax credits came from Family credit, which was created in 1986
    4. Apprenticeships
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    (Original post by Bupdeeboowah)
    1. The new living wage
    2. The Northern powerhouse, English votes for English issues, and Osborne allowing councils to keep their business rates
    3. Tax credits came from Family credit, which was created in 1986
    4. Apprenticeships
    Past tense was used deliberately. The Tories have a wonderful habit of supporting progress once its already been made.
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    (Original post by Bupdeeboowah)
    1. The new living wage
    2. The Northern powerhouse, English votes for English issues, and Osborne allowing councils to keep their business rates
    3. Tax credits came from Family credit, which was created in 1986
    4. Apprenticeships
    - To compensate for welfare cuts, thus having little effect on actual income.
    - The Northern powerhouse is just a slogan, HS2 is a failure and little investment has been made in Northern cities. English votes for English issues was a response to increasing demands for devolution by other countries.
    - Tax cuts IN 2015 (this decade please)
    - Yeah that's true.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Past tense was used deliberately. The Tories have a wonderful habit of supporting progress once its already been made.
    I don't see how supporting progress is bad - unless of course if you're the kind who supports the reinstatement of clause IV.
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    (Original post by Bupdeeboowah)
    I don't see how supporting progress is bad - unless of course if you're the kind who supports the reinstatement of clause IV.
    It's good, but it'd be more useful if they supported it when it was being fought for rather than once it'd already been achieved.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    It's good, but it'd be more useful if they supported it when it was being fought for rather than once it'd already been achieved.
    Margaret Thatcher shifting British politics to the right immediately comes to mind.
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    (Original post by whorace)
    I support the lords and monarchy.
    I support the market economy.
    I support conscription.
    I support leaving the EU but remaining a member of the common market.
    I have Catholic social views.

    But
    I support the principle of universal healthcare
    I support investment in renewable energy and addressing climate change
    I support investment in emergency services and police
    I support continued membership of NATO and the UN
    I support the principle of universal and free education

    I don't really know what that would be described as.
    Old Tory is probably closest. Current leaderships would probably put you with todays Tories although from the 05-10-15 elections you could have arguably voted for all 3 main parties.

    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Past tense was used deliberately. The Tories have a wonderful habit of supporting progress once its already been made.
    This happens with every party.

    Education is a fantastic example where Tory policy was an evolution of Labour policy (plus a lot of Tory stuff) which the 2015 Labour manifesto largely suggested would be an evolution of the Tory education policy. A nice decade of consensus.

    In health we saw that bar much increased funding, a lot of Blair's health policies were an evolution of Clarke and whoever came after him.
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    I think Cameron will get some reform, but i doubt even he believes that the UK will get everything it asks for.
    Personally, I would like to see us leave the EU and start trading with the Commonwealth who we abandoned 30 years ago, as well as the BRIC nations (perhaps avoiding Russia for obvious reasons).
    It would also be nice to decide our own laws for a change instead of taking orders from a non-progressive, non-elected, non-democratic parliament that this country did NOT sign up for in the 70s.

    However, I would rather stay in the EU if it meant that the UK remained united. We have already heard threats from the SNP that if England votes to leave and Scotland does not, then another referendum could be triggered. Yes, this could all be hot air but I personally do not want to take the risk, especially if Wales takes a similar view. At the end of the day, if £33 million pounds in EU membership a day keeps our great country together, then I would pay it. No question.

    A united member of a reformed EU, yes, not a broken outsider.
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    David Cameron is a pretty awful leader, but he is actually brilliant at PR and the media like him as he keeps them rich and allows them to persecute disadvantaged groups.

    In answer, no I don't think he will get significant reform, but I think few people will realise this as the small reform points he gets, some of which are already in motion will be made out to be a resounding victory.

    I'm not specifically anti-tory, but I do not support the way this government has outright lied to its voters, they consistently say they are doing one thing whilst doing the exact opposite. I just don't understand why no one is talking about this.
 
 
 
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