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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    No, there isn't proof against a supernatural force, but science isn't concerned with that as it delas with empirical evidence that can actually be detected. If you, or others are making a fantastical claim about God then the onus is on you to back up your claims and not on others to disprove it.

    False, a scientific theory has a different definition to the everyday meaning of the word theory. The latter refers to a vague, guess which in science would translate to a hypothesis.

    In science, a theory can only be called that when it is confirmed by a huge amount of evidence. Are you going to say that the THEORY of gravity and germ THEORY are just theories? I suspect not, so be aware that the definitions are different.
    With everything you're saying about theories, I supposed you're forgetting ...
    "The geocentric model, also known as the Ptolemaic system, is THEORY that was developed by philosophers in Ancient Greece and was named after the philosopher Claudius Ptolemy who lived circa 90 to 168 A.D. It was developed to explain how the planets, the Sun, and even the stars orbit around the Earth."

    In those days, they were convinced that this must be the case. After all, wasn't it a theory brought forward by a famous scientist?! ...
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    (Original post by Veestos121)
    And the truth is - there is no god.There never was any.The concept of a "god" and religions are a human invention like language, the week, economics and every other human invention.All religious laws and restrictions , were not given to man by any "god" ( jooz, mouselems and chreestians or "gods" ( yes I am talking to you polytheists like jindus and boodehists), rather they were invented by some very, very primitive people who lived thousands of years ago and had no idea about science or how the world or the Universe actually works.There is NOTHING supernatural in the universe,ALL religions are inventions.No god or gods,created us , Darwin proved We evolved from apes over millions of years through the NATURAL ( and NOT supernatural) process of "Natural Selection.There is no "afterlife", and no "soul".we ARE our bodies, more precisely our brain.Our consciousness or "thinking self " is the result of electric impulses in the brain.We only live once ,so stop worshipping your imaginary god or gods, because they do not exist, so you are waisting your precious time, your one go.
    Neither god is "God" nor Darwin was right. And I can not even imagine where this **** "Our consciousness or "thinking self " is the result of electric impulses in the brain." came from.
    First of all, a thing that many people mistake is that God is a human. Jesus Christ is not God. And God is not a human.
    People have personalized things they did not understand. And now everybody accept their ways of thinking without even questioning anything.
    Second of all, if we have evolved from apes why has this evolution stopped? Or has time stopped? As far as I can see monkeys don't magically turn into humans.
    And finally - is your inner voice when thinking or reading result of "electric impulses in the brain"? And how can you describe me feelings such as being sad, happy, frustrated etc. as physical reactions? And can you describe me, please, how do we feel pain, because if you hit a stone, brick etc. it won't feel anything? And here you would say - they won't feel anything because they are inanimate objects and if so what makes us animated ones?
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    (Original post by Treblebee)
    With everything you're saying about theories, I supposed you're forgetting ...
    "The geocentric model, also known as the Ptolemaic system, is THEORY that was developed by philosophers in Ancient Greece and was named after the philosopher Claudius Ptolemy who lived circa 90 to 168 A.D. It was developed to explain how the planets, the Sun, and even the stars orbit around the Earth."

    In those days, they were convinced that this must be the case. After all, wasn't it a theory brought forward by a famous scientist?! ...
    Geocentric model, not theory . In addition, the current definition of what a scientific theory constitutes didn't exist around 90 to 168 AD :laugh:

    I don't quite understand the point you're trying to make..? Scientists believed things on the basis of the evidence that was available at the time, who's saying they can never make mistakes.

    And when new evidence comes to light, they change their minds, which is why you won't find any scientist nowadays that still believes in the geocentric model. Religionists on the other hand, rarely change their beliefs in the face of new evidence
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    (Original post by NatiiEw)
    First of all, a thing that many people mistake is that God is a human. Jesus Christ is not God. And God is not a human.
    To be fair, this is just your opinion. Christians will say otherwise.

    Second of all, if we have evolved from apes why has this evolution stopped? Or has time stopped? As far as I can see monkeys don't magically turn into humans.
    First of all, if you're going to try and debunk evolution then make sure you actually know what the theory is about. It's not a case of use evolving from apes, but rather us and apes having a common ancestor, which we do.

    Evolution hasn't stopped, nor does it ever.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Geocentric model, not theory . In addition, the current definition of what a scientific theory constitutes didn't exist around 90 to 168 AD :laugh:

    I don't quite understand the point you're trying to make..? Scientists believed things on the basis of the evidence that was available at the time, who's saying they can never make mistakes.

    And when new evidence comes to light, they change their minds, which is why you won't find any scientist nowadays that still believes in the geocentric model. Religionists on the other hand, rarely change their beliefs in the face of new evidence
    The point I'm trying to make is that science is continuously changing its mind; I'm not attacking science - I love science - but I'm just trying to say that you shouldn't base everything off something that is continually changing.
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    (Original post by Treblebee)
    The point I'm trying to make is that science is continuously changing its mind; I'm not attacking science - I love science - but I'm just trying to say that you shouldn't base everything off something that is continually changing.
    No. Science adapts, but there are countless theories which are pretty much proven and not subject to revolutionary changes.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    But there is! Besides, all science tells us is how the Big Bang happened, it doesn't tell us what caused it as that is still unknown.

    When i said just like that, i meant just out of no where, not that what happens in big bang is not the way it happened.

    Well yes, God could have caused it, but this is just adding an unnecessary step to the equation and thus it violates Occam's Razor. Scientists generally aren't interested in studying so-called supernatural phenomena and beings.
    I dont mean to argue with scientists but with the fact that people use what science has only proved so far, to then say look no God comes into this equation. The majority of people i have come across say that there is no God because science says the world is caused by the big bang, not considering the fact that they haven't said but is no God.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    No. Science adapts, but there are countless theories which are pretty much proven and not subject to revolutionary changes.
    "Adapting" is the nice way to put it...
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    Well even in the Bible it is said that Jesus Christ is prophet, which does not mean he's God. Or at least in this one which I have read. Because we all know that all sacred books have been rewritten too many times.
    And about Darwin - in my schoolbooks is written that we have evolved from them, according to him. It is not written that we are having a common features, which I agree. It is directly said that they are our ancestors.
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    (Original post by NatiiEw)
    Well even in the Bible it is said that Jesus Christ is prophet, which does not mean he's God. Or at least in this one which I have read. Because we all know that all sacred books have been rewritten too many times.
    And about Darwin - in my schoolbooks is written that we have evolved from them, according to him. It is not written that we are having a common features, which I agree. It is directly said that they are our ancestors.
    No, the Bible contains loads of passages talking about Jesus' divinity as well as all the times that Jesus himself claimed he was God.

    You either read the book wrong or the person who wrote it didn't know much about evolutionary theory because it refers to sharing an ancestor with them.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    No. Science adapts, but there are countless theories which are pretty much proven and not subject to revolutionary changes.
    I dont think science really adapts, cos it has changed theories the more they advance. Forms of Science said years ago the earth was flat, now we know it is round. Couple of years back pluto was a planet, now pluto is not a planet. A change of mind/theory based on new information, or even perspective is actually not adaptation, but rather change, it is learning that something was not actually right and fixing that to become right, based on CURRENT knowledge.
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    (Original post by Anna_S)
    I dont think science really adapts, cos it has changed theories the more they advance. Forms of Science said years ago the earth was flat, now we know it is round. Couple of years back pluto was a planet, now pluto is not a planet. A change of mind/theory based on new information, or even perspective is actually not adaptation, but rather change, it is learning that something was not actually right and fixing that to become right, based on CURRENT knowledge.
    The flat Earth model was not a proper scientific theory given that this was believed millennia ago. There are many theories in science that are not going to suddenly change, like those of gravity, germs and evolution.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    The flat Earth model was not a proper scientific theory given that this was believed millennia ago. There are many theories in science that are not going to suddenly change, like those of gravity, germs and evolution.
    What
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    No, the Bible contains loads of passages talking about Jesus' divinity as well as all the times that Jesus himself claimed he was God.

    You either read the book wrong or the person who wrote it didn't know much about evolutionary theory because it refers to sharing an ancestor with them.


    Mark 10:18
    Why do you call me good? No one is good, except God alone.
    John 14:28
    The Father is greater than I.
    Numbers 23:19
    God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man
    John 10:29
    My father is greater than all.
    John 17:3
    that they might know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent
    Acts 2:22
    a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst
    Matthew 21:11
    And when he was come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying, Who is this? And the multitude said, this is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.

    I can't see nothing but a distinction from God. Or at least Jesus says so.
    Jesus was closer to God than people were then or even today, there is no doubt. But being closer to God does not necessary make him one.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    The flat Earth model was not a proper scientific theory given that this was believed millennia ago. There are many theories in science that are not going to suddenly change, like those of gravity, germs and evolution.
    i did mention it being a form of science, it was pretty much what they had back then, because their knowledge and technology was limited. Yeah many theories might not be suddenly changing, but that doesnt mean every theory is secured.
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    (Original post by Anna_S)
    i did mention it being a form of science, it was pretty much what they had back then, because their knowledge and technology was limited. Yeah many theories might not be suddenly changing, but that doesnt mean every theory is secured.
    You're confusing a scientific theory with a hypothesis.
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    (Original post by NatiiEw)
    John 14:28
    The Father is greater than I.
    John 10:29
    My father is greater than all.
    These can be refuted thus

    Yes, both the father and the son are to be honoured EQUALLY!:

    Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
    Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

    In islam can created creatures receive the same honour that is given to allah?

    The father is Greater in rank/role, not essence.

    ESSENCE: The most important ingredient; the crucial element. The inherent, unchanging nature of a thing or class of things. the characteristic or intrinsic feature of a thing, which determines its identity; fundamental nature. the unchanging and unchangeable nature of something which is necessary to its being the thing it is; its necessary properties [/i]

    Jesus said john the Baptist is greater than moses, does this mean moses is any less of a man and less of a prophet than John the Baptist? Of course not:

    "I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater (meizon) than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he." Matthew 11:11
    The only reason john could have been greater than moses would be down to the role both of them played. John had the privilidge of paving the way for the messiah which is a thing all the prophets would have desired to do.

    Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
    Mat 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

    As jesus lowered himself and became a man he took on the role of a servant. As the father wasn’t a servant then the father would be greater in rank/role/position than the one who is serving the father:

    "For who is the greater, one who reclines at table or one who serves? Is it not the one who reclines at table? But I am among you as the one who serves." Luke 22:27
    Thus, the Father was greater in position and rank, not in essence and nature. The questioner is, therefore, committing a categorical fallacy. He/she is confusing the category of position and rank with the category of essence and nature, erroneously assuming that if one is greater in one way, i.e. position and authority, than he/she must be greater in every way, i.e. essence and nature. In light of these clear biblical truths, such is not the case at all. Sam shamoun.answering islam.

    John 17:3
    that they might know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent
    How is this a refutation? Christians themselves believe that God sent a part of himself to incarnate, i.e. Jesus.

    a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst
    Jesus performed miracles by claiming that he was God and thus the power of God worked through him according to dogma.

    Matthew 21:11
    And when he was come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying, Who is this? And the multitude said, this is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.
    How is this a refutation? Everyone knows that most people didn't believe he was God, that's why he was crucified!

    I can't see nothing but a distinction from God. Or at least Jesus says so.
    Jesus was closer to God than people were then or even today, there is no doubt. But being closer to God does not necessary make him one.
    Not true. Jesus said he was God plenty of times and there are loads of passages in the Bible that show this:

    . Old and New Testament Parallels of God the Father and God the SonExodus 3:14 - God says "I AM who I AM" -
    John 8:58 - Jesus says "Before Abraham was, I AM" in reference to Himself.
    Deut. 4:2; 12:32 - the Lord God commands that we not add or take away from His word -
    Rev. 22:18-19 - Jesus so commands us not to add or take away from His word.
    Deut. 32:39; 1 Sam. 2:6 - the Lord kills and makes alive again and raises up -
    John 5:21 - the Son raises and gives life.
    Deut. 32:39 - neither is there any that can deliver out of God's hand -
    John 10:28 - nor shall any pluck out of Jesus' hand
    .Deut. 32:43 - rejoice, ye heavens, with Him, and let all the angels of God worship Him -
    Heb. 1:6 - the "Him" is Jesus the Son.
    Sam. 22:3 - God is the horn of salvation -
    Luke 1:68-69 - Jesus is the horn of salvation.
    Psalm 19:7 - the law of the Lord is perfect -
    Gal. 6:2 - fulfill the law of Christ.
    Psalm 24:10 - the Lord is the King of glory -
    1 Cor. 2:8 - Jesus is the Lord of glory.
    Psalm 45:7 - Therefore God, your God, has anointed you. God calls someone else God. This someone else is His eternally begotten Son -
    Heb. 1:9 - Therefore God, your God, has anointed you. cf. Heb. 1:8, 10.Psalm 62:12 - the Lord God renders to each according to his work -
    Matt. 16:27; Rev. 22:12 - Jesus so renders to each according to his work.
    Psalm 71:5 - the Lord God is our hope -
    1 Tim. 1:1 - the Lord Jesus Christ who is our hope.
    Psalm 89:27 – I will make him the first-born, the highest (“elyon” which refers to God) of the kings of the earth -
    John 18:36-27 – Jesus is this first-born king.
    Psalm 97:9 - the Lord God is above all -
    John 3:31 - Jesus is above all.
    Psalms 110:1 - the Lord (Yahweh) said to my Lord - Jesus = Yhwh -
    Acts 2:34-36 - God has made Jesus both Lord and Christ.
    Psalm 148:1-2 - the angels worship the Lord God -
    Heb. 1:6 - the angels worship Jesus. Only God is worshiped.
    Prov. 3:12 - who the Lord loves He corrects -
    Rev. 3:19 - who Jesus loves He corrects.
    Isaiah 7:14 - a virgin will bear a Son named Emmanuel which means "God is with us" -
    Matt. 1:23 - this Son is Jesus Christ, God in the flesh.
    Isaiah 9:6 - the child to be born shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
    Isaiah 25:8 - God swallows up death in victory -
    2 Tim. 1:10 - Jesus abolishes death and brings life and immortality.
    Isaiah 40:8 - the Word of God shall stand forever -
    Matt. 24:35 - the Words of Jesus shall not pass away.
    Isaiah 42:8 - God gives His glory to no other - John 17:5; Heb. 1:3 - yet Jesus has the same glory as the Father.
    Isaiah 43:14 - the Lord God is redeemer - Titus 2:14 - Jesus is the redeemer.
    Isaiah 44:6 - the Lord God is the first and the last - Rev. 1:17; 2:8; 22:13 - Jesus is the first and the last.
    Isaiah 45:19 - I, the Lord God, did not speak in secret - John 18:20 - Jesus said "I have said nothing secretly.
    "Isaiah 45:23 - to God, every knee shall bow and every tongue swear. Phil. 2:10-11 - at Jesus' name every knee should bow and tongue confess.
    Isaiah 48:17 - God is the Holy One - Acts 3:14 - Jesus is the Holy One.
    Isaiah 60:19 - God is everlasting light - Revelation 21:23 - Jesus the Lamb is eternal light.
    Jer. 17:10 - the Lord searches the hearts and repays us according to our deeds - Rev. 2:23 - Jesus searches the hearts and repays us according to our deeds.
    Ezek. 1:26-28; Daniel 7:9 - God's glorious appearance - Rev. 1:13-16 - Jesus' glorious appearance.
    Ezek. 34:11-31 - God the Father is the shepherd of the flock - John 10:7-29 - Jesus is the shepherd of the flock.
    Ezek. 34:16 - God seeks to save that which was lost - Luke 19:10 - Jesus seeks to save that which was lost.
    Ezek. 34:17 - God judges between cattle, rams and goats - Matt. 25:32 - Jesus judges and separates the goats from the sheep.
    Ezek. 43:2 - God's voice was like a noise of many waters - Rev. 1:15 - Jesus' voice was like the sound of many waters.
    Dan. 2:47 - the Lord is the God of gods and the Lord of Lords - Rev. 17:14 - Jesus the Lamb is the Lord of Lords.

    Jesus Christ Claims to be God:
    Matt. 4:7; Luke 4:12 - Jesus tells satan, "you shall not tempt the Lord your God" in reference to Himself.
    Matt. 5:21-22; 27-28; 31-32; 33-34; 38-39; 43-44 - Jesus makes Himself equal to God when He declares, "You heard it said...but I say to you..
    "Matt. 7:21-22; Luke 6:46 - not everyone who says to Jesus, "Lord, Lord." Jesus calls Himself Lord, which is God.
    Matt. 9:2; Mark 2:5; Luke 5:20; 7:48 - Jesus forgives sins. Only God can forgive sins.
    Matt. 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5 - Jesus says that He is "Lord of the Sabbath." He is the Lord of God's law which means He is God.
    Matt. 18:20 - Jesus says where two or three are gathered in His name, there He is in the midst of them.
    Matt. 21:3; Luke 19:31,34 - Jesus calls himself "Lord." "The Lord has need of them.
    "Matt. 26:64; Mark 14:62; Luke 22:70 - Jesus acknowledges that He is the Son of God.
    Matt. 28:20 - Jesus said He is with us always, even unto the end of the world. Only God is omnipresent.
    Mark 14:36 - Jesus calls God "Abba," Aramaic for Father, which was an absolutely unprecedented address to God and demonstrates Jesus' unique intimacy with the Father.
    Luke 8:39 - Luke reports that Jesus said "tell how much God has done for you." And the man declared how much Jesus did.
    Luke 17:18 - Jesus asks why the other nine lepers did not come back to give praise to Him, God, except the Samaritan leper.
    Luke 19:38,40 - Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. If these were silent, the very stones would cry out.
    John 5:18 - Jesus claimed to be God. The Jews knew this because Jesus called God His Father and made Himself equal to God. This is why Jesus was crucified.
    John 5:21-22 - Jesus gives life and says that all judgment has been given to Him by the Father.
    John 5:23 - Jesus equates Himself with the Father, "whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him."
    John 6:38 - Jesus says, "For I have come down from heaven."
    John 8:12 - Jesus says "I am the light of the world." -
    1 John 1:5 - God is light and in him there is no darkness at all.
    John 8:19 - Jesus says, "if you knew me, you would know my Father also."
    John 8:23 - Jesus says that He is not of this world. Only God is not of this world.
    John 8:58 - Jesus says, "Before Abraham was, I AM."
    Exodus 3:14 - "I AM" means "Yahweh," which means God.
    John 10:18 - Jesus says He has the power to lay down His life and take it up again -
    Gal. 1:1 - God raised Jesus to life.
    John 10:30 - Jesus says, "I and the Father are one." They are equal. The Jews even claimed Jesus made Himself equal to God. Jesus' statement in John 14:28, "the Father is greater than I," cannot contradict John 10:30 (the Word of God is never in conflict). Jesus' statement in John 14:28 simply refers to His human messianic role as servant and slave, which He, and not the Father or the Holy Spirit, undertook in the flesh.
    John 10:36 - again, Jesus claims that He is "the Son of God."
    John 10:38; 14:10 - "the Father is in me and I am in the Father" means the Father and Son are equal.
    John 12:45 - Jesus says, "He who sees Me sees Him who sent Me." God the Father is equal to God the Son.
    John 13:13 - Jesus says, "You call me Teacher and Lord and you are right for so I AM."
    John 14:6 - Jesus says "I am the way, and the truth and the life." Only God is the way, the truth and the life.
    John 16:15 - Jesus says, "all things that the Father has are Mine." Jesus has everything God has which makes Him God.
    John 16:28 - Jesus says that "He came from the Father and has come into the world."
    John 17:5,24 - Jesus' desire is for us to behold His glory which He had before the foundation of the world.
    John 20:17 - Jesus distinguishes His relationship to the Father from our relationship by saying "My Father and your Father."
    Rev. 1:8 - God says He is the "Alpha and the Omega." In Rev. 22:13, Jesus also says He is the "Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end." The only possible conclusion one can reach is that Jesus is equal to the Lord God.
    Rev. 1:17 - Jesus says again, "I am the First and the Last." This is in reference to the God prophesied by Isaiah in Isaiah 44:6, 41:4, 48:12.Rev. 1:18 - Jesus, the First and the Last, also says "I died, and behold, I am alive for evermore." When did God ever die? He only did in the humanity of Jesus Christ our Lord and God.
    Rev. 2:8 - Jesus again says, "The words of the First and the Last, who died and came to life." When did God die and come to life? In our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

    And many more, see this list of Biblical quotes for the source and further examples http://www.scripturecatholic.com/jes..._divinity.html
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    (Original post by NatiiEw)
    Mark 10:18
    Why do you call me good? No one is good, except God alone.
    John 14:28
    The Father is greater than I.
    Numbers 23:19
    God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man
    John 10:29
    My father is greater than all.
    John 17:3
    that they might know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent
    Acts 2:22
    a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst
    Matthew 21:11
    And when he was come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying, Who is this? And the multitude said, this is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.

    I can't see nothing but a distinction from God. Or at least Jesus says so.
    Jesus was closer to God than people were then or even today, there is no doubt. But being closer to God does not necessary make him one.
    Numbers 23:10
    God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

    it means God is not someone who should lie, and God is not someone would should have to repent.

    Jesus is the son of God, because he was something born by Him. A dog gives birth to a dog, cat to cat, God to God. Jesus is still God but in human form,

    John 1:14
    And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth

    This is talking about how Jesus being the word was made into a human form.

    Then in John 1:1 it says
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God.
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    thanks OP. Because of you I feel more euphoric and enlightened than ever
    /s
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    You're confusing a scientific theory with a hypothesis.
    so Pluto previously being a planet was a hypothesis?
    correct me if i am wrong
 
 
 
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