Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
x Turn on thread page Beta

Should young people be paid minimum wage? watch

  • View Poll Results: Should young people be paid minimum wage?
    No - only 21 year olds + should be entitled to full minimum wage.
    17
    9.88%
    Yes - People age 18+ should be entitled to full minimum wage.
    60
    34.88%
    Yes - People age 16+ should be entitled to full minimum wage.
    63
    36.63%
    Yes - Everyone including children should be entitled to full minimum wage.
    32
    18.60%

    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Well the welfare state acts as a kind of basic income in a very inefficient and bureaucratic way. Undermining the welfare state is one fo the reasons right wingers like a UBI. I'm from the Bertrand Russell school of left wing UBI advocacy.

    http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html


    But we are currently stuck with a bunch of morons in power who have a kind of Victorian moralizing about the necessity to work taking away tax credits etc...
    Right wing left wing. I like it even though it undermines the welfare state. I see it as the evolution of the welfare state from paternalism to libertarian individualism, Labour to Green if you like.

    Benefit conditionality allows as you insinuate a reversion to the Victorian charity style social provision which meant you had to jump through ridiculous hoops set by the benefactor including religion.

    The Beveridge welfare state was revolutionary mainly because it was universalist. Things changed more in 1945 than in 1910 imo
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    and you have the nerve to say young people should be paid less??

    :eek3:


    Posted from TSR Mobile

    woahhh, I never claimed they should be paid less. The minimum wage should be risen, to the minimum LIVING wage, but it should still be proportional to age
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Perhaps you would. Still, if you only needed one worker, and there were two candidates with a substantial age gap between them, if you were a prudent business owner you'd hire the older one most of the time, because, absent any price advantage for the younger one, they'd usually be the better candidate.
    And the older lad is likely to be more set in their ways. If they're applying to be a receptionist for a small business at the age of 35, they aren't gonna be swanning off to work in the City 6 months later and unlikely to quit because they are more likely to have substantial bills to pay. Whereas, with younger people 21–25, they are more dynamic and optimistic with their employment opportunities, and more likely to quit because their boss called them a prat one time.

    It, therefore, makes sense for the employer to take the older candidate because it means less potential need to find a replacement candidate, and the expense to train them.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by callum_law)
    And the older lad is likely to be more set in their ways. If they're applying to be a receptionist for a small business at the age of 35, they aren't gonna be swanning off to work in the City 6 months later and unlikely to quit because they are more likely to have substantial bills to pay. Whereas, with younger people 21–25, they are more dynamic and optimistic with their employment opportunities, and more likely to quit because their boss called them a prat one time.

    It, therefore, makes sense for the employer to take the older candidate because it means less potential need to find a replacement candidate, and the expense to train them.
    You could argue the complete opposite though, a 35 year old who is only on minimum wage may be much more tempted to try and earn more money, whereas the average younger person will be satisfied with less money. ..
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    I think he is sensible enough to crawl up the arses of employers when necessary. We do not, however, yet need to fear committing thought crime against them, this not being North Korea
    I wish I had been more disruptive in my last work place. I'm too scared to though as apposed to being to "sensible" I hated it anyway.

    The person I was working for could would not even pay one of his staff sick leave when they broke their wrist... I wish I did have the confidence and balls to tell the owner his is scum to be honest. At least when I left. Or even just nudging said worker into seeing how she is being treated poorly. It feels like I'm committing thought crime though... Oh well, I'm sure the long haired hippy with his squatter lawyer friends is probbaly enough

    IN an alternate universe had I been brutally brought up during the turbulent first half of the 20th century I may have well ended up ion one fo those groups that sabotaged factories etc :ninja:


    Edit: Just to be clear when I go for interviews I don't go in there waving an anarchist flag On the surface I seem like the most mild manured apolitical person going. Plus i want a job :-/
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by callum_law)
    And the older lad is likely to be more set in their ways. If they're applying to be a receptionist for a small business at the age of 35, they aren't gonna be swanning off to work in the City 6 months later and unlikely to quit because they are more likely to have substantial bills to pay. Whereas, with younger people 21–25, they are more dynamic and optimistic with their employment opportunities, and more likely to quit because their boss called them a prat one time.

    It, therefore, makes sense for the employer to take the older candidate because it means less potential need to find a replacement candidate, and the expense to train them.
    Yep.

    It also depends how far up the age scale we're talking. If you can hire a 50 year old woman for your receptionist position you know that she will probably settle down for the next 15 years and is unlikely to take maternity leave.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    I wish I had been more disruptive in my last work place. I'm too scared to though as apposed to being to "sensible" I hated it anyway.

    The person I was working for could would not even pay one of his staff sick leave when they broke their wrist... I wish I did have the confidence and balls to tell the owner his is scum to be honest. At least when I left. Or even just nudging said worker into seeing how she is being treated poorly.


    Posted from TSR Mobile

    Quick question, how long had the worker been there? And thats completely unacceptable, they should've written to HMRC
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    Well perhaps it shouldn't be based on age, but circumstance
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ImNotReallyMe)
    Well perhaps it shouldn't be based on age, but circumstance


    Posted from TSR Mobile

    That would be discrimation based on the class system, it wouldn't work, the unions would be all over it
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Right wing left wing. I like it even though it undermines the welfare state. I see it as the evolution of the welfare state from paternalism to libertarian individualism, Labour to Green if you like.

    Benefit conditionality allows as you insinuate a reversion to the Victorian charity style social provision which meant you had to jump through ridiculous hoops set by the benefactor including religion.

    The Beveridge welfare state was revolutionary mainly because it was universalist. Things changed more in 1945 than in 1910 imo
    Ye that's how I see it.

    Don;t get me wrong though. I'm happy to win people over for the right wing reasons. The concept needs all the help it can get as it seems to go against "common sense" that is so embedded in people.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    In my opinion young people are being screwed over, they've created thousands of apprenticeship for simple
    entry level jobs that years ago should have gone to school leavers but what do we have now? Thousands of people under the age of 24 who are working for slave wages the situation is dire for young people.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Treeroy)


    And yes as I said I know plenty of adults who have jobs for disposable income. Mostly Wives who have high-earning husbands who get a job as something to have some more money. Like I know a middle age couple, one of them earns well over £150K and the other one stays at home. Recently she decided to get a job to give her something to do and have some extra money. She doesn't need the money, the job is PURELY to get disposable income. Should she only get paid £5 an hour cause she doesn't really need it?! What a stupid argument.
    Yep.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Personally, I don't agree with the existence of a minimum wage and I would like for it to be scrapped.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    Personally, I don't agree with the existence of a minimum wage and I would like for it to be scrapped.


    Posted from TSR Mobile

    You mean like, employers should pay what they wish. Surely that would make it all a lot worse
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    Personally, I don't agree with the existence of a minimum wage and I would like for it to be scrapped.
    Why?
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Treeroy)
    Why?


    Posted from TSR Mobile

    Wouldn't that mean employers could pay like 10p an hour?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sw651)
    Posted from TSR Mobile

    Wouldn't that mean employers could pay like 10p an hour?
    I think the idea is that if you scrap a mandatory minimum wage, then there is more competition between employers and as a result wages will rise. But that already happens, different employers pay different wages.

    Or it may be a freedom thing where they feel anyone can pay anyone whatever they like for whatever reason as it's a free country.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    as i had a job at 16 before i lost it
    thanks to someone better coming along
    but i earnt about £3,000 in a year and have quite a bit to show as i started my business and bought my first tag heuer and was able to afford to treat the girl who i was in love with at the time (chocolates, champagne and a diamond tennis bracelet as well as a meal out on valentine's day at the place i worked)
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    I wish I had been more disruptive in my last work place. I'm too scared to though as apposed to being to "sensible" I hated it anyway.

    The person I was working for could would not even pay one of his staff sick leave when they broke their wrist... I wish I did have the confidence and balls to tell the owner his is scum to be honest. At least when I left. Or even just nudging said worker into seeing how she is being treated poorly. It feels like I'm committing thought crime though... Oh well, I'm sure the long haired hippy with his squatter lawyer friends is probbaly enough

    IN an alternate universe had I been brutally brought up during the turbulent first half of the 20th century I may have well ended up ion one fo those groups that sabotaged factories etc :ninja:


    Edit: Just to be clear when I go for interviews I don't go in there waving an anarchist flag On the surface I seem like the most mild manured apolitical person going. Plus i want a job :-/
    I also worked for a fast food franchisee who used workfare slaves. I no longer need his reference but he has sold up now. I can't believe some sort of protest hasn't been organised among minimum wage workers where people put posters on the windows to let customers know what they are patronising. I guess there is no solidarity at all

    For some things like this however I do have sympathy with small businesses.

    (Original post by sw651)
    Posted from TSR Mobile

    Quick question, how long had the worker been there? And thats completely unacceptable, they should've written to HMRC
    With legal aid cuts it now costs a cool couple of thousand to raise a tribunal so there is no recourse for minimum wage employees when employers break the law in this way. We are, after all, under a Tory government.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sw651)
    Posted from TSR Mobile

    Wouldn't that mean employers could pay like 10p an hour?
    That's fine if you have a universal basic income - finally the libertarian dream can be realised. However the cost of labour would shoot up in other areas. Everyone would find work paid at 10p an hour doing dolphin conservation or whatever and employers offering ****ty jobs would either have to raise wages to compensate or learn to automate.

    Eventually robots can do all the ****ty jobs and everyone else can conserve the dolphins. People are happier across the board
 
 
 
Poll
Do you like carrot cake?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.