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Muslim woman in Hijab pushed into a moving train by a man in London watch

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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    Evidently even with this people still don't care.

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    It's a sad thought but they should.
    Therefore the more publicity on more well-recognised media would help.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    Evidently even with this people still don't care.
    What does that even mean? People are clearly sympathetic to this poor woman and think it's a tragedy she was attacked by this crazy 81 year old Japanese man. He's obviously not right in the head, it's very sad all around.

    But I guess by "people still don't care", you mean "people still don't buy the paranoid conspiracy theory that this is all a plot against Muslims and that followers of Islam are an oppressed class in the West"?
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    (Original post by annony)
    Therefore the more publicity on more well-recognised media would help.
    Publicity of what? You're saying that it's more important when it's a Muslim victim of crime than when it's a non-Muslim victim of crime?
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    (Original post by woIfie)
    I haven't seen anyone on this thread (except for one crazy user) defending this crime. What they are pointing out is that this random and abominable crime simply is not part of the narrative that the OP paints that this is part of a campaign of oppression against Muslims, that all Muslims are victims of a conspiracy against them.

    If the OP was simply drawing attention to this terrible crime committed by a mentally ill old Japanese man then that would be one thing. But given the OP is using this as a means to argue that Muslims are an oppressed class in the West then it is fair to point out that women in hijabs experience more violence from their husbands and family members than from the evil kaffir
    Simply passing off the user who is defending these kinds of actions as "crazy" is a means to play down these kind of crimes.

    Opinions like his have penetrated normal everyday people and many often express such views, although not as strongly or with much force. Where this kind of crime may simply have attracted an outpouring of sympathy, there is simply scorn and certain views who feel it is justified to attack a certain kind of people.

    These kind of views have not only been consigned to the far-right but have permeated through the very fabric of society and are now largely becoming mainstream setting a very dangerous precedent.

    So? Does the fact the victim of this random attack was a Muslim make it more notable?

    The perpetrator was a crazy old Japanese man. It was a random and terrible crime, not a conspiracy to oppress Muslims
    Of course it makes it more notable.

    The justification, or indeed the mitigation of this kind of crime by certain users who are of a particular persuasion serves to underline how unacceptable behaviour towards minorities can quickly become mainstream.
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    (Original post by woIfie)
    The fact that in their view a woman must be subject to standards of modesty far in excess of those applying to men is a prima facie manifestation of the oppression. I wouldn't say all Muslim women who wear the hijab are oppressed, some genuinely do have a choice, but equally there are many who don't.

    It's also true that even looking at middle and upper-middle class Muslim women who do get a university education, this is often simply to increase their value on the marriage market and they don't work following marriage



    How do I know that an old 81 year old Japanese pensioner who pushed a woman into an oncoming train is crazy?

    You can't seriously be suggesting this is some kind of conspiracy. Who would have paid him to push the woman into the oncoming train? Or do you believe this is part of the evil kaffir conspiracy to oppress Muslims, and they paid some old man to push a random woman into an oncoming train... simply because they like it?

    If you genuinely believe that I don't think we're even on the same plane of sanity
    1) muslim women wear the clothes and hijab because it is part of the religion. Men have to do things as well but it is upto the individual themselves. In the UK there are a tiny minority of women oppressed. Majority of the muslim women you see on the streets in public I can assure you are not oppressed, it is their own choice. So the question of oppression can be ruled out as THIS topic has NOTHING to do with a man pushing a muslim onto a train to nearly kill her or land her with brain damage.
    2) that may have been in the 1500 but like all cultures and religions Islam is moving forward and there are so many more Muslim doctors in the UK hospitals than any other religion. And yes they do work after marriage, this is not the 1500s.
    3) again with the oppression. What is with you and oppression! Go look up the meaning. This topic has literally NOTHING to do with oppression.
    A MAN be him crazy on meds crazy becuase someone paid him crazy because of distraught past life experiences nearly killed this muslim woman. She is lucky to be alive and not dead or brain damaged.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    These kind of views have not only been consigned to the far-right but have permeated through the very fabric of society and are now largely becoming mainstream setting a very dangerous precedent.
    You seem to be confused. The woman was attacked by an 81 year old Japanese pensioner, the man is clearly not right in the head. So unfortunately for you, you can't use this poor woman's suffering to build up the narrative of Muslim victimhood.

    Of course it makes it more notable.

    The justification, or indeed the mitigation of this kind of crime by certain users who are of a particular persuasion serves to underline how unacceptable behaviour towards minorities can quickly become mainstream.
    You seem to be confused again. The crime was carried out by a crazy old man, and everyone bar one on this thread has said it's terrible she suffered. The reason you're whining is that you're frustrated this can't be used to buttress the paranoid narrative of a Western conspiracy against its Muslim citizens.
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    (Original post by woIfie)
    Publicity of what? You're saying that it's more important when it's a Muslim victim of crime than when it's a non-Muslim victim of crime?
    Publicity of this event that happened. Publicity of a man purposely pushing a Muslim woman onto a moving train. Publicity of near death incidents on the underground.

    did i say that its more important. No. I said it NEEDS to be out there becuase its not and like the other person is saying acts like these on Muslim people are becoming more mainstream.
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    (Original post by annony)
    3) the guy who filmed this - BIG HIM UP because without him no one would EVER know the truth. I hope he gets to the highest ranks of his job and continues to release footage like this to the rest of the world.
    Expect this is wrong

    the crime is already known about and he has already been charged so how you can claim no one would know the 'truth' is clearly wrong

    the person who filmed this will lose their Job and I and others will see to this

    I have reported them to the police and I have sent a formal complaint to the Transport police's Information Officer.

    Using his mobile phone at work to record what should be private security footage is simply wrong (it's a massive breach of trust) and I've been informed by the police illegal according to guidelines given by the Information Commissioner's Office.
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    (Original post by annony)
    1) muslim women wear the clothes and hijab because it is part of the religion.
    So the hijab is part of the Muslim religion? I thought we were always being told it was cultural not religious. In any case, that simply underlines my point that the Islamic religion prescribes an inferior status for women, just as a woman's testimony is worth half that of a man's in an Islamic court

    I can assure you are not oppressed, it is their own choice.
    You can give no such assurance. Like with any religious group, there will be some women who wear it by choice and some who do not. The fact is that in many Muslim countries women do not have a choice, if you go onto the streets in Saudi Arabia without a niqab you face arrest, sexual harassment or worse.

    So the question of oppression can be ruled out as THIS topic has NOTHING to do with a man pushing a muslim onto a train to nearly kill her or land her with brain damage.
    It would have nothing to do with it if it was simply being raised as a random and terrible crime, which it is. But you and your friends on here seem to keep raising the fact the victim is a Muslim, as if to say that Muslim lives are worth more than kaffir lives.

    The fact that every random crime against a Muslim is retweeted and shared and hyperventilated over by obsessive Muslims is very sad. It is very sad that they are adopting paranoid modes of thinking and are obsessing over their non-existent victimhood. Unfortunately there are many in the Muslim community who thrive on self-pity.

    2) that may have been in the 1500 but like all cultures and religions Islam is moving forward and there are so many more Muslim doctors in the UK hospitals than any other religion. And yes they do work after marriage, this is not the 1500s.
    Some do, many don't. It is indeed not the 1500s, which raises questions of why Muslim women need to be clothed as if they were property, as if they were part of some rich man's harem.

    3) again with the oppression. What is with you and oppression! Go look up the meaning. This topic has literally NOTHING to do with oppression.
    I agree this random crime has nothing to do with non-existent oppression of Muslims. Which raises the question, why all the conspiracy theories? Why is the OP quoting this from a website entitled "Documenting Oppression against Muslims"? You are the ones who are clearly obsessed with oppression and you believe this terrible, random crime by a mentally ill man is an example
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    Expect this is wrong

    the crime is already known about and he has already been charged so how you can claim no one would know the 'truth' is clearly wrong

    the person who filmed this will lose their Job and I and others will see to this

    I have reported them to the police and I have sent a formal complaint to the Transport police's Information Officer.

    Using his mobile phone at work to record what should be private security footage is simply wrong (it's a massive breach of trust) and I've been informed by the police illegal according to guidelines given by the Information Commissioner's Office.
    I will not comment as the main concern about this thread is not the man that filmed it.
    It is just sad to think that if this was a different situation where a Muslim man crazy or drunk pushed a non-muslim woman then everyone would again hate on muslims and very little thought would've been given to the person who filmed this.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    I have reported them to the police and I have sent a formal complaint to the Transport police's Information Officer.

    Using his mobile phone at work to record what should be private security footage is simply wrong (it's a massive breach of trust) and I've been informed by the police illegal according to guidelines given by the Information Commissioner's Office.
    Excellent points. As you say, the crime had already been documented and the man charged. This man within TFL or the transport police was clearly leaking confidential information for political/religious purposes, which is an outrage.
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    (Original post by annony)
    I will not comment as the main concern about this thread is not the man that filmed it.
    It is just sad to think that if this was a different situation where a Muslim man crazy or drunk pushed a non-muslim woman then everyone would again hate on muslims and very little thought would've been given to the person who filmed this.
    It is for me

    the police were already dealing with the incident and the bloke had already been charged

    But as I said I'll make sure this doesn't end well for the person who filmed this
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    (Original post by annony)
    It is just sad to think that if this was a different situation where a Muslim man crazy or drunk pushed a non-muslim woman then everyone would again hate on muslims and very little thought would've been given to the person who filmed this.
    There are crimes all the time by Muslims against non-Muslims. A group of Muslims are on trial right now for raping a 14 year old girl.

    Your attitude clearly shows you see non-Muslims as inferior, and less worthy of your concern
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    (Original post by woIfie)
    You seem to be confused. The woman was attacked by an 81 year old Japanese pensioner, the man is clearly not right in the head. So unfortunately for you, you can't use this poor woman's suffering to build up the narrative of Muslim victimhood.
    In our previous interactions, you have often labelled me confused. Is that how you start all of your posts?

    I'm concerned that you would immediately label any narrative that runs contrary to your thinking as "confused".

    You seem to be confused again. The crime was carried out by a crazy old man, and everyone bar one on this thread has said it's terrible she suffered. The reason you're whining is that you're frustrated this can't be used to buttress the paranoid narrative of a Western conspiracy against its Muslim citizens.
    According to you, I am again confused.

    I haven't claimed there is a conspiracy. I haven't said that it wasn't carried out by a crazy old man. I haven't expressed frustration with the state of events.


    I've expressed concern that the views of such users, who is in the minority on this site, are and will become more prominent throughout society.

    Your attempt at sidelining the views of the user does not negate or excuse the behaviour of the user or the old man. The old man may be crazy but it is not crazy to assume that he would react in the same way to a non-Muslim woman.

    Does that imply some kind conspiracy on my part? Of course not.
    Does that mean that I am some kind of nutter? Of course not.
    Does that mean that I am confused? Of course not.
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    (Original post by woIfie)
    This man within TFL or the transport police was clearly leaking confidential information for political/religious purposes, which is an outrage.
    It is and I've reported it and have a case number now. I've also contacted the Transport Police's Information Officer and now their Information Security Officer with a written complaint and I'm also contacting the Information Commissioner's Office to report this

    There's a reason we have laws in this country to prevent things like this and it is an Outrage that this has been allowed to happen

    It's bad enough these cameras are every where knowing a person sitting in his office can simply use his mobile phone to record and the publish footage is shocking to say the least.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    In our previous interactions, you have often labelled me confused.
    It's because you are. On the other thread, you started babbling about your Call of Duty fantasies and making factually incorrect claims like that the Kurdish Sinjar offensive started from west of the town when in fact most of the troops came over Mount Sinjar from the north.

    I'm concerned that you would immediately label any narrative that runs contrary to your thinking as "confused".
    I'm concerned that your posts often consist almost entirely of strawmen and baseless theories.

    excuse the behaviour of the user or the old man.
    You'll have to point out where I excused either. I called the person who blamed the woman crazy, and I called this a terrible crime. You seem to be excusing the tendency of some far leftists and Islamists to label any random crime against Muslims as part of some Western conspiracy against Muslims, or evidence that society is overwhelmingly racist against them in violent/oppressive ways
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    (Original post by woIfie)
    So the hijab is part of the Muslim religion? I thought we were always being told it was cultural not religious. In any case, that simply underlines my point that the Islamic religion prescribes an inferior status for women, just as a woman's testimony is worth half that of a man's in an Islamic court
    yes hijab is part of the religion. no its not cultural.
    Umm how does wearing a headscarf make a woman inferior if the religion she follows allows her to wear it. Men have to do things as well that the religions state. Like the kippah that men have to wear is Judaism.. would you start calling them oppressed!


    (Original post by woIfie)
    You can give no such assurance. Like with any religious group, there will be some women who wear it by choice and some who do not. The fact is that in many Muslim countries women do not have a choice, if you go onto the streets in Saudi Arabia without a niqab you face arrest, sexual harassment or worse.
    Yeah well exactly. You are basically saying small children are oppressed by their parents by making/forcing them to eat the food they want them to eat. You point in invalid. I have been saudi arabia without niqaab and nothing happened to me or my mum (i am not muslim).

    (Original post by woIfie)
    It would have nothing to do with it if it was simply being raised as a random and terrible crime, which it is. But you and your friends on here seem to keep raising the fact the victim is a Muslim, as if to say that Muslim lives are worth more than kaffir lives.
    yeah it is. well you havent been reading the news lately but another woman was screaming down to a MUSLIM woman to go back to her own country on a bus in london and no one did anything.

    (Original post by woIfie)
    The fact that every random crime against a Muslim is retweeted and shared and hyperventilated over by obsessive Muslims is very sad. It is very sad that they are adopting paranoid modes of thinking and are obsessing over their non-existent victimhood. Unfortunately there are many in the Muslim community who thrive on self-pity.
    Why should it not be. EVERY LIFE MATTERs. I am saying anything anyone does should be widely publicised and the muslim attack ones arent. Whether you cannot see that is upto you.


    (Original post by woIfie)
    Some do, many don't. It is indeed not the 1500s, which raises questions of why Muslim women need to be clothed as if they were property, as if they were part of some rich man's harem.
    because like i said before it is the religion that states it. Again ill bring up the Kippah point.
    And something that is covered is more preserved than something that is left out in the open.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    It is for me

    the police were already dealing with the incident and the bloke had already been charged

    But as I said I'll make sure this doesn't end well for the person who filmed this
    i can't believe this is priority in your life.
    Again if this was a Muslim man craxy or drunk doing this to muslim woman the public would not care about the person who released the footage, in fact they would appreciate it.
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    (Original post by woIfie)
    There are crimes all the time by Muslims against non-Muslims. A group of Muslims are on trial right now for raping a 14 year old girl.

    Your attitude clearly shows you see non-Muslims as inferior, and less worthy of your concern
    No actually I know about that and i hope those vile men get what they deserve.
    You dont know how to stay on topic though do you?
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    (Original post by annony)
    yes hijab is part of the religion. no its not cultural.
    Umm how does wearing a headscarf make a woman inferior if the religion she follows allows her to wear it.
    Allows her to wear it? You mean forces her to wear it? If a woman has to wear a cumbersome item of attire that men do not (on the basis that a husband doesn't want other men "looking at my woman" ) then you clearly have an example of sexism there. If you treat men and women differently, in a way that places greater encumbrance on the woman, then it is sexist

    Yeah well exactly. You are basically saying small children are oppressed by their parents by making/forcing them to eat the food they want them to eat.
    You're comparing women to small children? Can't think for themselves and must be told what to do? I rest my case.

    I am saying anything anyone does should be widely publicised and the muslim attack ones arent
    What do you mean it's not being publicised? We're discussing it now. This crime has attracted widespread attention on twitter and the Islamic blogosphere
 
 
 
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