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    (Original post by infairverona)
    People in Paris have died but you can't go on a night out? Please get a grip.
    hundreds of people die everyday, its very sad, not gonna stop going on nights out cuz of it tho.
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    (Original post by Rock Fan)
    When I was out in Canada I met a lot of Muslims who were really nice peaceful people and very passionate about sport, I do fear for them now.
    Canada is cool, a lot of races/ religions get along there.
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    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    Sorry I guess I misunderstood.
    I suppose its an easy way to assess how integrated somebody is. A Muslim who feels British and values his life in Britain above what a bunch of nutty Imans say is probably the type of person we want here. Somebody who values their religion above their country is clearly not somebody to be trusted in these difficult times where even if he won't join ISIS himself, he may well have sympathy or be an apologist.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I suppose its an easy way to assess how integrated somebody is. A Muslim who feels British and values his life in Britain above what a bunch of nutty Imans say is probably the type of person we want here. Somebody who values their religion above their country is clearly not somebody to be trusted in these difficult times where even if he won't join ISIS himself, he may well have sympathy or be an apologist.
    I don't think it's about putting your country before your religion or vice versa. The Muslims that leave to join ISIS are not real Muslims. I love my religion but ISIS is not a representation of my religion, so it's not a case of 'either you pick Britain or ISIS'. I don't love this country more than I love my religion, but does that mean I would do something that goes against this country? No, of course not.
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    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    I don't think it's about putting your country before your religion or vice versa. The Muslims that leave to join ISIS are not real Muslims. I love my religion but ISIS is not a representation of my religion, so it's not a case of 'either you pick Britain or ISIS'. I don't love this country more than I love my religion, but does that mean I would do something that goes against this country? No, of course not.
    I disagree.

    The problem is not the members that die for ISIS, as bad as the terrorist attack was it happens very infrequently. The problem is how many Muslims out there are passive or sympathetic to ISIS.

    To use an analogy, only 250,000 cared enough to make Corbyn leader but 9 million (even if he loses) will turn out and vote for him in 2020. The radical advocates are not the problem, it is the number of people who don't care or sympathise which is the concern.

    I believe you when you say that most Muslims don't want to kill me.. but a hell of a lot of them wouldn't pick up a gun and shoot one of their own if they suicide bombed the queen or parliament for example.
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    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    I don't think it's about putting your country before your religion or vice versa. The Muslims that leave to join ISIS are not real Muslims. I love my religion but ISIS is not a representation of my religion, so it's not a case of 'either you pick Britain or ISIS'. I don't love this country more than I love my religion, but does that mean I would do something that goes against this country? No, of course not.
    No offense but that's the problem, anyone who values religion more than concrete things has an issue. I don't judge what these crazy people do against islam I'm looking at the bigger picture and out of 5 countries I've lived in in the past 6 years, the general perception of muslims has been negative. The religion itself is what I judge and although I don't particularly like religions in general I don't lump them all into the same clot, Islam would probably take the cake for being the worst of the lot of them though.

    To paint it in a different perspective, how many times do you hear of buddhists (one of the religions I do respect) committing atrocities against others like this? None because if you look at the religion, at it's core it's a pretty peaceful religion. Same with Jainism, Islam is probably the most violent currently active religion in the world.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I disagree.

    The problem is not the members that die for ISIS, as bad as the terrorist attack was it happens very infrequently. The problem is how many Muslims out there are passive or sympathetic to ISIS.

    To use an analogy, only 250,000 cared enough to make Corbyn leader but 9 million (even if he loses) will turn out and vote for him in 2020. The radical advocates are not the problem, it is the number of people who don't care or sympathise which is the concern.

    I believe you when you say that most Muslims don't want to kill me.. but a hell of a lot of them wouldn't pick up a gun and shoot one of their own if they suicide bombed the queen or parliament for example.
    Really? None of the other Muslims I know are sympathetic towards ISIS. It's not good to just assume that Muslims support this. Why would we support someone making a joke out of our religion, giving it a bad name? Muslim countries have even condemned these attacks, and have spoken out against ISIS. Meanwhile it was actually America that provided them with the necessary weapons for their own personal gain, as usual. So thank the Americans for this and most of the political problems going on right now.

    Well if I was in that position no, I wouldn't take someone else's life. I am better than that. Just because we don't go out and physically fight them that means we support them? Also, they are not "one of my own". I don't consider them Muslims and will never feel sympathy towards them. They're not following Islam.
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    (Original post by ron_trns)
    No offense but that's the problem, anyone who values religion more than concrete things has an issue. I don't judge what these crazy people do against islam I'm looking at the bigger picture and out of 5 countries I've lived in in the past 6 years, the general perception of muslims has been negative. The religion itself is what I judge and although I don't particularly like religions in general I don't lump them all into the same clot, Islam would probably take the cake for being the worst of the lot of them though.

    To paint it in a different perspective, how many times do you hear of buddhists (one of the religions I do respect) committing atrocities against others like this? None because if you look at the religion, at it's core it's a pretty peaceful religion. Same with Jainism, Islam is probably the most violent currently active religion in the world.
    What are these concrete things exactly? Of course I am going to love my religion. I love what this country has to offer, but how can I love it more than what I believe in? If a Christian declared they loved Jesus more than their country no one would jump at them shouting there is a problem.

    And so just because perceptions of Muslims are bad in those countries you've lived in, that means Muslims must be bad people? Of course people's perceptions are bad in the West, the media is enough to cause hysteria across the population about many things thanks to the lies they feed us. Think back to the perceptions people had about black people, or Jews. This is just a repeat of that with some details changed.

    "The religion itself is what I judge" - do you know anything about our religion? Do you know what it really promotes and teaches, or are you just listening to what those who hate Islam say about it? In order to get a clear idea you need to learn from the right sources. That means asking a Muslim or a trusted scholar who actually knows what they are talking about, or perhaps looking at what the Qur'an says, etc. How can you judge something without knowing anything about it? Don't look at what the small minority does to form your judgement. I think you're smart enough to think for yourself instead of listening to all the hate.

    Lastly, you have to look at other factors. Terrorism hasn't just poofed out of nowhere, and definitely not because of Islam. I'm not justifying terrorism, but these nations have been constantly invaded and tormented, and their political situations are terrible. So something like this is going to happen. If only America and all these other western powers had butted their nose out of their countries. However, shame on them for using Islam as an excuse for their crimes, and doing it in Allah's name. Islam isn't what's violent, it's the people using it as a reason for terrorism.
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    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    What are these concrete things exactly? Of course I am going to love my religion. I love what this country has to offer, but how can I love it more than what I believe in? If a Christian declared they loved Jesus more than their country no one would jump at them shouting there is a problem.
    Uh, loads of people would and do just that. Extreme groups of people - any kind of people are bad. Islam is definitely an extreme religion.
    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    And so just because perceptions of Muslims are bad in those countries you've lived in, that means Muslims must be bad people? Of course people's perceptions are bad in the West, the media is enough to cause hysteria across the population about many things thanks to the lies they feed us. Think back to the perceptions people had about black people, or Jews. This is just a repeat of that with some details changed.
    Oh, you thought I was talking about the "west". 3 of those countries were; Taiwan, China and Japan. Think it extends much further than the west. I'm not judging muslims for these crazy acts, I already mentioned. I'm judging the religion which is bonkers it's like christainity hundreds of years ago - an extreme ideal.
    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    "The religion itself is what I judge" - do you know anything about our religion? Do you know what it really promotes and teaches, or are you just listening to what those who hate Islam say about it? In order to get a clear idea you need to learn from the right sources. That means asking a Muslim or a trusted scholar who actually knows what they are talking about, or perhaps looking at what the Qur'an says, etc. How can you judge something without knowing anything about it? Don't look at what the small minority does to form your judgement. I think you're smart enough to think for yourself instead of listening to all the hate.
    I am thinking for myself, I don't argue causes I don't feel passionate about and without reason I don't feel passionate about something. I also have some muslim friends who are good people but some of the crazy stuff they have come out with because of their religion is not healthy and is worrying.
    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    Lastly, you have to look at other factors. Terrorism hasn't just poofed out of nowhere, and definitely not because of Islam. I'm not justifying terrorism, but these nations have been constantly invaded and tormented, and their political situations are terrible. So something like this is going to happen. If only America and all these other western powers had butted their nose out of their countries. However, shame on them for using Islam as an excuse for their crimes, and doing it in Allah's name. Islam isn't what's violent, it's the people using it as a reason for terrorism.
    Well I agree with what the west has done being the trigger but Islam is the catalyst. I mean in this world many groups of people are oppressed not just these nations but I don't see them all going and killing thousands of innocents. Nah sorry man, I don't like Islam at all and I'm a usually pretty indifferent person.
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    (Original post by ron_trns)
    Uh, loads of people would and do just that. Extreme groups of people - any kind of people are bad. Islam is definitely an extreme religion.Oh, you thought I was talking about the "west". 3 of those countries were; Taiwan, China and Japan. Think it extends much further than the west. I'm not judging muslims for these crazy acts, I already mentioned. I'm judging the religion which is bonkers it's like christainity hundreds of years ago - an extreme ideal.I am thinking for myself, I don't argue causes I don't feel passionate about and without reason I don't feel passionate about something. I also have some muslim friends who are good people but some of the crazy stuff they have come out with because of their religion is not healthy and is worrying.Well I agree with what the west has done being the trigger but Islam is the catalyst. I mean in this world many groups of people are oppressed not just these nations but I don't see them all going and killing thousands of innocents. Nah sorry man, I don't like Islam at all and I'm a usually pretty indifferent person.
    I'm not going to argue. But I will say I see ignorance in the judgement you're making. It's good you don't judge Muslims for this, I'm glad. But you shouldn't be judging Islam either. Judge the terrorists, and judge the root cause of this problem - America and the West. Also, you can believe in whatever you want, but don't call a religion "bonkers" simply because you don't agree with it. It's offensive.

    You can easily feel passionate about something as a result of what others have told you or have influenced you. The people who hate Islam usually come up with the same arguments and I'm just so tired of them. They're not good arguments at all. Islam is not the catalyst. Since you obviously believe so, can you explain to me why? Give me evidence. I can bet you haven't read the Qur'an or done any research on my religion, because if you had (with an open mind), you wouldn't be thinking this way.

    When Americans go and invade someone no one labels them terrorists. When Jews kill innocent Palestinians (both Muslims and Christians), no one labels them as terrorists. When Russia invaded the Crimea and killed innocent people, no one labelled them as terrorists. And of course they won't, because it isn't in their interest to do so, political and otherwise.

    And okay, it's just you can't exactly justify your hate towards Islam. You haven't given me any reason except 'terrorists'. What type of argument is that? Provide me with some evidence, maybe something you've read.
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    Change religion, and don't wear islamic clothing if you're afraid
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    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    I'm not going to argue. But I will say I see ignorance in the judgement you're making. It's good you don't judge Muslims for this, I'm glad. But you shouldn't be judging Islam either. Judge the terrorists, and judge the root cause of this problem - America and the West. Also, you can believe in whatever you want, but don't call a religion "bonkers" simply because you don't agree with it. It's offensive.

    You can easily feel passionate about something as a result of what others have told you or have influenced you. The people who hate Islam usually come up with the same arguments and I'm just so tired of them. They're not good arguments at all. Islam is not the catalyst. Since you obviously believe so, can you explain to me why? Give me evidence. I can bet you haven't read the Qur'an or done any research on my religion, because if you had (with an open mind), you wouldn't be thinking this way.

    When Americans go and invade someone no one labels them terrorists. When Jews kill innocent Palestinians (both Muslims and Christians), no one labels them as terrorists. When Russia invaded the Crimea and killed innocent people, no one labelled them as terrorists. And of course they won't, because it isn't in their interest to do so, political and otherwise.

    And okay, it's just you can't exactly justify your hate towards Islam. You haven't given me any reason except 'terrorists'. What type of argument is that? Provide me with some evidence, maybe something you've read.
    TL;DR, the perception of Islam in many countries is terrible and apparently you are saying there is no good reason for this. I think this is the real ignorance here, it's a backwards religion. You are only following it because you were brought up that way, so it's kinda you who needs to find their own judgement.

    The best muslims are generally the ones that stray far from the quran. Anyway all religions change, Islam will probably get less extreme over time. I'm not gonna be around to see that though so I'm betting it'll be a taboo religion for the remainder of my lifetime at least.
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    (Original post by ron_trns)
    TL;DR, the perception of Islam in many countries is terrible and apparently you are saying there is no good reason for this. I think this is the real ignorance here, it's a backwards religion. You are only following it because you were brought up that way, so it's kinda you who needs to find their own judgement.

    The best muslims are generally the ones that stray far from the quran. Anyway all religions change, Islam will probably get less extreme over time. I'm not gonna be around to see that though so I'm betting it'll be a taboo religion for the remainder of my lifetime at least.
    So because the perception of Islam is bad in many countries, you have to perceive it badly also? Don't be a sheep. And that's funny, how do you know I was brought up this way? I converted to Islam after being brought up a Christian and seeing how backwards Christianity is. So no, I don't need to find my own judgement, I did so long ago.

    You still haven't answered my questions. I asked you to provide me with evidence. You haven't read the Qur'an, and you haven't done your research. In fact you have no idea what Islam is about. You're simply following what everyone else is crying out about. If you can tell me exactly why you hate Islam then your argument will stand - so far it doesn't.

    Also you say the best Muslims are those who stray far from the Qur'an. I don't stray from it, and I don't think I am a bad person at all. I'm also not a terrorist, either.
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    (Original post by Longshot700)
    Canada is cool, a lot of races/ religions get along there.
    This is the thing everyone in Canada just seems to get along with everyone, doesn't matter what background you are.
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    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    So because the perception of Islam is bad in many countries, you have to perceive it badly also? Don't be a sheep. And that's funny, how do you know I was brought up this way? I converted to Islam after being brought up a Christian and seeing how backwards Christianity is. So no, I don't need to find my own judgement, I did so long ago.

    You still haven't answered my questions. I asked you to provide me with evidence. You haven't read the Qur'an, and you haven't done your research. In fact you have no idea what Islam is about. You're simply following what everyone else is crying out about. If you can tell me exactly why you hate Islam then your argument will stand - so far it doesn't.

    Also you say the best Muslims are those who stray far from the Qur'an. I don't stray from it, and I don't think I am a bad person at all. I'm also not a terrorist, either.
    Eh? Christianity isn't a great religion but Islam is enough worse, you really should have researched more carefully. As for being a sheep, is that the best insult you have really? I can see their arguments so I agree with their opinion. You calling me a sheep isn't' changing that. I have seen what the holy book of your religion says, I have seen the backwards behaviour in countries it was introduced in.

    I don't have the will nor energy to post these things in what I'd obviously call a pointless exercise because you are religious and religious/extreme people can't see beyond their own belief. I'm sure you've been told it a million times anyway. If not, look online.

    Lastly you said I called you a terrorist, oh please where did I ever call you this. This is a victim complex, get over it I never called you a bad person I said your religion sucks balls - and it does. It was much better in asia people there are pretty damn open about not liking Islam. If you want to change how I think then you best start acknowledging the bad parts about your religion (there are plenty) and dealing with them otherwise it's only getting worse for muslims.
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    (Original post by ron_trns)
    Eh? Christianity isn't a great religion but Islam is enough worse, you really should have researched more carefully. As for being a sheep, is that the best insult you have really? I can see their arguments so I agree with their opinion. You calling me a sheep isn't' changing that. I have seen what the holy book of your religion says, I have seen the backwards behaviour in countries it was introduced in.

    I don't have the will nor energy to post these things in what I'd obviously call a pointless exercise because you are religious and religious/extreme people can't see beyond their own belief. I'm sure you've been told it a million times anyway. If not, look online.

    Lastly you said I called you a terrorist, oh please where did I ever call you this. This is a victim complex, get over it I never called you a bad person I said your religion sucks balls - and it does. It was much better in asia people there are pretty damn open about not liking Islam. If you want to change how I think then you best start acknowledging the bad parts about your religion (there are plenty) and dealing with them otherwise it's only getting worse for muslims.
    Yeah, I woke up one day and thought oo this looks interesting, let me convert. It's what I believe in and I won't let it be talked about this way. Also, I wasn't meaning to insult you. It's not an insult, it's an observation and a pretty accurate one I think, considering what you've been telling me. You've seen what my holy book says? Enlighten me what does it say?

    Religious/extreme people. Yeah, they're the same thing. What you don't realise is by reading what people say online, you are reading false information and not thinking for yourself. Someone who has absolutely no knowledge on the Qur'an will post a quote from it and start analysing it like some literary expert. As long as you keep relying on these sources you will remain forever ignorant. If you were to tell me what it is you read, I could help explain these things to you. It's easy for a non-Muslim to misinterpret them.

    Where did I say you called me a terrorist? No one is playing victim here. You told me the best Muslims are those who stray far from the Qur'an, most probably implying that terrorists are terrorists because they follow it. I simply told you I follow the Qur'an and do not stray from it, hence you can't say those who follow the Qur'an are bad people or 'extremists'.

    I haven't insulted you once, yet you result to insulting me and my religion. Learn to respect other people's beliefs. Islam teaches against the type of person you seem to be. What a terrible, terrible religion ey? :dry:
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    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    Yeah, I woke up one day and thought oo this looks interesting, let me convert. It's what I believe in and I won't let it be talked about this way. Also, I wasn't meaning to insult you. It's not an insult, it's an observation and a pretty accurate one I think, considering what you've been telling me. You've seen what my holy book says? Enlighten me what does it say?

    Religious/extreme people. Yeah, they're the same thing. What you don't realise is by reading what people say online, you are reading false information and not thinking for yourself. Someone who has absolutely no knowledge on the Qur'an will post a quote from it and start analysing it like some literary expert. As long as you keep relying on these sources you will remain forever ignorant. If you were to tell me what it is you read, I could help explain these things to you. It's easy for a non-Muslim to misinterpret them.

    Where did I say you called me a terrorist? No one is playing victim here. You told me the best Muslims are those who stray far from the Qur'an, most probably implying that terrorists are terrorists because they follow it. I simply told you I follow the Qur'an and do not stray from it, hence you can't say those who follow the Qur'an are bad people or 'extremists'.

    I haven't insulted you once, yet you result to insulting me and my religion. Learn to respect other people's beliefs. Islam teaches against the type of person you seem to be. What a terrible, terrible religion ey? :dry:
    You keep talking about terrorists as if it's the reason why I think Islam is terrible. It's the most extreme religion and the most confrontational, terrorism is probably the least of my worries about it - it's just a byproduct.

    1) Religious animal slaughter
    2) 'Enforced' too strictly, especially in children
    3) Is a religion that imposes MANY restrictions compared to others; alcohol, dress code, religious worship, fasting.
    4) Is the least tolerant religion - which is a huge achievement. Go the middle east as a christian and try to live and try to bring up the topic to muslims. Now do the same to Buddhists in east China, drastically different religious culture.

    Want a peaceful religion? Try jainism or any religion that REALLY puts the believe of others on the same level as their own and treats all life equal. These people I have respect for (I'm an atheist), Islam in its current state I have no time for.
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    (Original post by ron_trns)
    You keep talking about terrorists as if it's the reason why I think Islam is terrible. It's the most extreme religion and the most confrontational, terrorism is probably the least of my worries about it - it's just a byproduct.

    1) Religious animal slaughter
    2) 'Enforced' too strictly, especially in children
    3) Is a religion that imposes MANY restrictions compared to others; alcohol, dress code, religious worship, fasting.
    4) Is the least tolerant religion - which is a huge achievement. Go the middle east as a christian and try to live and try to bring up the topic to muslims. Now do the same to Buddhists in east China, drastically different religious culture.

    Want a peaceful religion? Try jainism or any religion that REALLY puts the believe of others on the same level as their own and treats all life equal. These people I have respect for (I'm an atheist), Islam in its current state I have no time for.
    You haven't told me what the reasons are so I was left to assume.

    1. This religious animal slaughter you talk about is the most humane way of killing animals for food. Please tell me what is bad about it. You can eat meat but when it comes to "animal slaughter" in Islam you start saying it's bad? Animals are there for us to eat. Also, from an article on The Guardian:

    "In non-halal slaughterhouses, stunned animals are shackled and hoisted above the ground where a slaughterman "sticks" them, cutting their throat or inserting a chest stick close to the heart. Cattle and some sheep and pigs are stunned by a bolt through the brain before being killed.

    Many poultry are now killed using gas. But they have traditionally been shackled, hung upside down on a production line, moved through electrified water to stun them, then conveyed to a mechanical neck cutter. In halal, however, they are killed by hand."

    2. How is it enforced 'especially' in children? If a child is born into a Muslim household then expect the child to follow Islam. There is nothing wrong with this, and these children are raised in a good Muslim household most of the time, so they want to follow it, they are not forced to.

    3. This point made me laugh when I read it and I don't even know how to reply to it because it's so not relevant. You think Islam is bad, or violent as you said previously, because it has too many restrictions? Christianity has almost the same exact restrictions written in the Bible, however Christians turn a blind eye and refuse to follow them. Fasting, dress code and religious worship should be as much a part of Christianity as in Islam. Actually, what makes Islam the best religion is the devotion most Muslims have. Do you really think I feel "restricted" because I can't drink alcohol? Or because I need to cover myself out of modesty when I leave the house? Or because I have to worship my Lord in a minuscule amount of 5 prayers per day? Please. If anything it has improved my life greatly.

    4. Again with your ignorance. Many, many Christians live in the Middle East and they get along just fine with the Muslims. In Egypt around 20% of the population is Coptic Orthodox. In Lebanon, again, a high percentage are Christians. I brought up the topic to Muslims before I became Muslim and no one verbally abused me or insulted my previous religion. However, Christians have constantly based Islam. See the difference? I have experienced it first-hand so I think I'm in a better position to say


    From what you've told me so far, it's clear you have no idea what Islam in its current state actually is. Inform yourself first.
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    (Original post by Rock Fan)
    This is the thing everyone in Canada just seems to get along with everyone, doesn't matter what background you are.
    I shall visit this land one day.
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    Well, gotta go church now.
 
 
 
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