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B903 - Military Pilot Protection Bill 2015 watch

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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    There were a few suggestions that I agreed with, so training is essential (even though it's likely they've already had it), punishment is harsh, I agree with your exceptions though. Make the changes for division/second reading and you get an Aye.
    Writng Second reading now .

    - Punishment will be less harsh
    - Training with firearms will be allowed
    with other air forces but not with standard flying training in the UK
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    (Original post by hazzer1998)
    Writng Second reading now .

    - Punishment will be less harsh
    - Training with firearms will be allowed
    with other air forces but not with standard flying training in the UK
    Top brass.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Should have mentioned 3.1.
    Will change for 2nd reading
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    No, pilots can be armed already with larger, more effective weapons, the senior offices should give the go ahead for pilots to be armed, and pilots should push to be armed. I disagree with the need to limit when a firearm cannot be carried, during training exercises it should always be carried to simulate what it would be like in a cockpit with the mass of a weapon attached. Aircrew already receive training to carry the L22 Carbine, meaning this bill achieves nothing.
    Exactly what I've advocated - equip them with the L22A2 compact carbine variant or L80A1/L90A1 MP5s with further training - both are already in service.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Aye.

    Spolier the notes, looks prettier.

    All your bill titles should have 2015 in there as well.
    No, don't spoiler the notes!! It looks awful!

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    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    No, don't spoiler the notes!! It looks awful!

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    Yes spoiler the notes, most people aren't going to look at them anyway.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Yes spoiler the notes, most people aren't going to look at them anyway.
    They won't if they don't notice them scrolling down.

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    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    They won't if they don't notice them scrolling down.

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    Is, if they're to negligent to check. They should be there, the fact that sold y people don't bother writing notes is part of the problem.

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    (Original post by Birchington)
    B903 - Military Pilot Protection Bill 2015, The Hon. hazzer1998 MP

    Military Pilot Protection Bill 2015

    A Bill to Arm Military Pilots during combat

    1) Protection of Pilots
    (1) Pilots that fly Attack/fighter , Intelligence and surveillance and refuel Aircraft / helicopters shall be armed with a handheld firearm during combat
    (2) Pilots of the RAF , RNAS and AAC shall be armed with a glock 17 or 9MM Pistol during the above situations and will be heavy restricted on use of the firearm during combat ( i.e air strikes or conflicts )

    2) Usage of the Weapon
    (1) If a pilot is captured during combat he or she may use the firearm in self defense and when he/she feels threatened during combat that requires air assistance
    (2) Military Pilots shall Only be armed during combat i.e Airstrikes or during a conflict
    (3) Military Pilots may not be armed during the follow situations
    (i) When on a training exercise abroad or in the UK
    (ii) During air displays at air shows
    (iii) When on Joint exercises with other air forces
    ( iv) During Air Experience flights
    (4) If a Military Pilot is found to of been carrying a firearm during the above restrictions they shall be dishonorably discharged from Her Majesty s Armed Force

    3) Commencement, short title and extent
    (1) This Act may be cited as the Military Pilot Protection Bill
    (2) This act shall extend to the UK
    (3) Shall come into force following Royal Assent.

    Notes:
    This Bill is purely to protect Military pilots when they are flying Attack / fighter intelligence . surveillance aircraft or helicopter during Military combat that require air support ( i.e Air strikes ) RAF , RNAS And AAC Pilots do not currently carry firearms during combat . the only protection they have are survival knifes . this bill will arm the military pilots during combat ONLY and the firearm will only be used if the pilot is captured during combat or feels threatened during a confict

    Military Pilots are highly skilled so they chances of them crashing the plane during conflict and being captured are slim . and the firearm is only used in extreme situations

    The Firearm can easily be concealed in one of the many pockets in a military flying suit so it will not be on display and will not interfere with the pilot and the equipment used.
    Might it spoil your fun for me to point out the following:

    I am a military pilot who flies on operations and carry not one but two weapons, a Glock 17 and an SA80A2. I have carried two weapons on ops for nearly the past decade of being in the RAF. This bill is pointless.

    While I happen to have space for both of those weapons on my aircraft type, most other aircrew already carry at least some form of side-arm.

    These weapons are not carried unless going 'sausage-side' in the same way that the aircraft are not armed unless going 'sausage-side'.
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    (Original post by Andy98)
    That and the SA80 is a bit **** - I use it cadets and you usually end up with 2 or 3 jammings every mag (despite us only putting 20 out of the possible 30 rounds in).

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    In the words of the great Michael Caine, "You failed to maintain your weapon, son".
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    (Original post by Talon)
    In the words of the great Michael Caine, "You failed to maintain your weapon, son".
    Or nearer the correct phrasing; "You failed to obtain a decent weapon."
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    (Original post by Andy98)
    Or nearer the correct phrasing; "You failed to obtain a decent weapon."
    By any chance are you using the A1 variant, that one had horrible reliability, A2 way way better (as in you're experiencing failures 2000 times more frequently than the A2 alegedly manages), and even reliability as poor as you report is down to poor maintenance; it might be bad, but no that bad.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    By any chance are you using the A1 variant, that one had horrible reliability, A2 way way better (as in you're experiencing failures 2000 times more frequently than the A2 alegedly manages), and even reliability as poor as you report is down to poor maintenance; it might be bad, but no that bad.
    A2; although I would've thought people trained by the military would know how to maintain a weapon.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    By any chance are you using the A1 variant, that one had horrible reliability, A2 way way better (as in you're experiencing failures 2000 times more frequently than the A2 alegedly manages), and even reliability as poor as you report is down to poor maintenance; it might be bad, but no that bad.
    For cadets it will be an L98 instead of the L85, which has a different cocking lever design which (I think) prevents the forward assist which won't help, especially as there are no gas parts either. Still didn't have near that level of stoppage on either the A1 or A2 variants we had when I was in cadets though!
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    (Original post by Andy98)
    A2; although I would've thought people trained by the military would know how to maintain a weapon.
    The stoppages rate does seem high but the A2 is a terrible weapon; its calibre is not high enough; it a right-handed weapon which forces soldiers to expose themselves when shooting around the left side of cover, and when all weapons are being carried with the barrel pointed to the left it costs valuable second in an ambush coming from the left; and the fumes are exhausted closer to the mouth when firing which is not pleasant. The whole weapon needs replacing quickly with a weapon firing an adequate round, not one that was adopted for political reasons after pressure was applied by American manufacturers in the per-Cold War, NATO rush to standardise everything.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    The stoppages rate does seem high but the A2 is a terrible weapon; its calibre is not high enough; it a right-handed weapon which forces soldiers to expose themselves when shooting around the left side of cover, and when all weapons are being carried with the barrel pointed to the left it costs valuable second in an ambush coming from the left; and the fumes are exhausted closer to the mouth when firing which is not pleasant. The whole weapon needs replacing quickly with a weapon firing an adequate round, not one that was adopted for political reasons after pressure was applied by American manufacturers in the per-Cold War, NATO rush to standardise everything.
    The problem is the A2 exists because we basically sent the A1 to Germany (good gun-makers) and the conversation went kinda like:
    "Oh, tally ho; we appear to have a crap gun. Fix it please?"
    "It's not fixable, we can build something good for you?"
    "By jove! We cannot have that! Just make this the best it can be."

    Of course I'm paraphrasing the officers
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    (Original post by Andy98)
    A2; although I would've thought people trained by the military would know how to maintain a weapon.
    Knowing how and actually doing are not the same.
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    (Original post by Andy98)
    The problem is the A2 exists because we basically sent the A1 to Germany (good gun-makers) and the conversation went kinda like:
    "Oh, tally ho; we appear to have a crap gun. Fix it please?"
    "It's not fixable, we can build something good for you?"
    "By jove! We cannot have that! Just make this the best it can be."

    Of course I'm paraphrasing the officers
    Sound right; politics, cost, and vanity are always put before the lives of soldiers.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Knowing how and actually doing are not the same.
    True

    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    Sound right; politics, cost, and vanity are always put before the lives of soldiers.
    Yep
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    (Original post by CurlyBen)
    For cadets it will be an L98 instead of the L85, which has a different cocking lever design which (I think) prevents the forward assist which won't help, especially as there are no gas parts either. Still didn't have near that level of stoppage on either the A1 or A2 variants we had when I was in cadets though!
    Apart from everything before your first comma, I'm afraid pretty much the rest of what you have said isn't true. The L98A2 is identical to the L85A2 with the following exceptions: Different flash eliminator, no change lever, no automatic capability.

    If you have A) properly cleaned an oiled the weapon and B) filled the magazine correctly, you are unlikely to get many stoppages. If you take a weapon out on exercise and don't clean it at all while you are out there, you cannot expect it to work properly at the end.
 
 
 
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