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    (Original post by Racoon)
    Anyone will recognise we all have a conscience and we don't always follow it. That is the biblical view, you many call it original sin if you wish but its a recognition of human sinful nature.
    I agree that we have the ability to sin and that we are inclined towards sin (because of the external and internal demonic influences) but I don't agree that we were created this way (no satan = no Adam sinning), or that we inherit this nature or that the solution/atonement is the belief in the crucifixion of the Son of God

    Doesn't Islam condemn human nature? Doesn't it require you to pray 5 times, visit Mecca etc? If not aren't you condemned? Doesn't each person have two angels keeping a chart on your shoulders with scales weighing your good and bad deeds. Aren't you hopeful that you might get into paradise, will you know if you have ever done enough? Where is God's grace and mercy?
    By human nature I mean the pure pristine original nature that we were created with - that includes longing for female/male companionship, and what you call "earthly" pleasures.

    The Quran describes those who have lost hope in the Mercy of God as the rejectors of the Truth. Losing hope or feeling that God won't be Merciful to me is an act of kufr.

    You are assuming wrongly that human nature is sin and that it should be condemned. That is not human nature.

    I agree that the greatest reward is the presence of God but not the material trappings of what this world sees as fulfilling. No I do not dream of a big palace in the sky with waterfalls, my sights are set on being with Jesus.
    But God gifts are numerous. It's totally fine to be a Muslim while only eyeing the Presence of God (which according to the ahadith would anyway cause you to forget all your other blessings). But it's not as if that is what we were created for and what God's Mercy would cover.

    There are many others ways to glorify God than mere hymns. There are many others ways by which God "rewards" us than mere conversation. There are many other reasons why we are thankful to God than for merely being present.

    Saying this the bible says

    "but just as it is written, "THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD, AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN, ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM." For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.…"

    But that is for eternity, it shouldn't concern us now.
    Yes

    As Christians we can experience the reality of God's presence now because we are all able to enter His holy presence by the shed blood of Christ.
    So what's the difference between now and in "heaven"?
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    Death is appointed by God unto men in preparation for the judgment. HEBREWS 9:27
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    Death is inevitable. I don't believe in the afterlife. I'm comfortable with the idea of ceasing to exist at some point and that being the end of my life. I find that to be a far more peaceful conclusion to life than the prospect of transitioning to some sort of utopian heaven or being reincarnated into another living thing.

    I think the permanence of death only really hits home when it happens in your family - particularly your immediate family. It is only then that you truly realise that there is no rewind button in life and there is no way of bringing a dead person back.
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    More teenage speculation *sigh*
    I would debate with you but i cant be bothered
    Go read what i wrote in the thread- are we real.
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    (Original post by Sciatic)
    ........

    The earth was NOT teeming with creation before we appeared, and it is we who populated it. The earth was meant for us. It was meant to be our temporal homes and it was always like that. The dinosaurs was wiped out not because of anything we have done.

    Death is not a consequence of sin. Even if Adam hadn't been willed to sin (sin as being an action and not a state), he would have died. Everything except God would have to die regardless of how evil or good they are. The Angel Gabriel would have to die and the Devil would have to die. Every atom and every abstract thing would have to die. This is a central concept in Islam. Death is not a result of sin - it is the result of being ungodly. Even the angel who blows the Trumpet would die. Everything would be altered into a new creation by God.

    But what makes us human would still be what makes us human

    Not exactly. We don't know how the new creations will be like. But we do know that our natures will remain, without which there is no justice. Everything cannot be like Jesus - we are all different and God made us like that.

    Dust from the ground? So even before Adam sinned he was in this state. Why did he need a wife if he had God? Because we are humans before, now and after. So if you would eat in heaven what stops you from having sex?

    If Jesus ate, why didn't he have sex and produce children of God? Surely we share his image or nature. Everything was created for a purpose. I believe that Jesus has or would have children, just like Isaac had children even though both were probably themselves born without any male intervention

    God created love as well as lust and these two natures/feelings are everlasting as long as we are everlasting. If God created food and drink and gave us leave to enjoy it (not merely only for survival), then God could as well create lust as a blessing.
    .......

    And also when we have sex we don't do as animals do.

    Yeah, but we believe that Jesus would marry an actual woman, just like Adam did. The bride is not an international church. It's rather strange for Paul to use such metaphorical language.

    Adam didn't have "earthly" desires before he sin - he had "human" desires. He felt lonely without Eve not because of some "earthly" desire but because he was a human. Everything will be changed but doesn't mean we all end up angels.
    You said:-
    "The earth was NOT teeming with creation before we appeared"

    I'm not talking about human life.I think you will agree that there is a steady decline in wildlife and a devastating environmental decline. There are no new species.. And to quote wwf 'it isn't looking good', possibly somewhere around 10,000 and 100,000 species are becoming extinct each year.

    http://wwf.panda.org/about_our_earth.../biodiversity/
    http://www.theguardian.com/environme...nomic-security
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_684562.html

    The earth is in a state of decay and decline, the facts are visible.

    ******************************** ******************************** ***************

    You said:-
    "Adam hadn't been willed to sin (sin as being an action and not a state), he would have died. The Angel Gabriel would have to die and the Devil would have to die. Every atom and every abstract thing would have to die".

    I would like to ask you why? Why did Allah create everything to die? How do we see Allah's mercy in that, what was the point of creation?

    You are told in the Koran to read the Torah and Psalms in the Old Testament and the New Testament gospels because there is goodness and light in them, We know God is the source of all guidance and light.
    • Gospel--"It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)," (3:3).
      Also, "And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah," (5:46).
    The Christian perspective is that we were not created to die. We read in the bible God created the universe and everything in it, and it was all very good.

    Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, His work is perfect;For all His ways are justice,A God of truth and without injustice;Righteous and upright is He.

    Genesis 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.

    Before Adam sinned everything was perfect, everything lived without dying. It was because of sin that death came into the world.

    ******************************** ******************************** ****************

    You said:-
    " Everything would be altered into a new creation by God.
    But what makes us human would still be what makes us human"

    I think you need to reason with what you have said here. Everything gets altered yet humans remain human.

    The body is just the suitcase for our spirit. The human body dies and the spirit is eternal, it cannot be human.

    I believe God is a God of order and not confusion as the bible says ..."and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets; for God is not a God of confusion but of peace"...


    ******************************** ******************************** ***********
    You said:-
    "Because we are humans before, now and after."
    You die don't you, as a human being. Then what? What happens to your decaying and failing human body?

    The human body corrupts, the bible says we shall be raised into newness of life and in a new body, a body fit for heaven, for an eternity. In these verses from the book of Revelation we read John's encounter with the Son of Man, the Jesus he knew.

    Revelations 1:12-18 When I turned to see who was speaking to me, I saw seven gold lampstands. 13 And standing in the middle of the lampstands was someone like the Son of Man. He was wearing a long robe with a gold sash across his chest. 14 His head and his hair were white like wool, as white as snow. And his eyes were like flames of fire. 15 His feet were like polished bronze refined in a furnace, and his voice thundered like mighty ocean waves. 16 He held seven stars in his right hand, and a sharp two-edged sword came from his mouth. And his face was like the sun in all its brilliance.17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as if I were dead. But he laid his right hand on me and said, “Don’t be afraid! I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the living one. I died, but look—I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and the grave.

    ******************************** ******************************** ********************************
    You said:-
    We don't know how the new creations will be like. But we do know that our natures will remain,

    You believe your nature will remain. Is your nature perfect or flawed? If it is perfect then I don't believe you live in the real world. if it is flawed how can that nature remain? How different would paradise be to living on earth with people who do wrong and with everything in decay?

    ******************************** ******************************** *******************
    You said:-
    Dust from the ground? So even before Adam sinned he was in this state. Why did he need a wife if he had God? Because we are humans before, now and after. So if you would eat in heaven what stops you from having sex?

    God did create Adam from the dust of the ground, there is truth in the words at burials 'ashes to ashes, dust to dust' so it is for man to be born once and then to die.
    Genesis 2:7 then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.

    Firstly God saw that Adam being alone was not good.
    Genesis 2:18 Then the Lord God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him.

    God created Eve from Adams rib. Genesis 2:23 Then the man said, “This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.”

    The Christian faith shows woman and man are to be equal in life demonstrated by god using a rib. Walking side by side not for the woman to be below a man. They are partners and are created to be each others helper and so that we don't live alone or be lonely, a person who's got our back.

    ******************************** ******************************** ************
    You said:-
    If Jesus ate, why didn't he have sex and produce children of God? Surely we share his image or nature.

    Jesus was born of Mary but did not have the genes of a sinful earthly father. Jesus although 100% human was also 100% divine. Jesus never sinned.

    He ate, it was a sociable thing to do and he used food as a focus of many parables and stories. Feeding of the 5,000, the Last Supper, sitting and eating with 'outcasts of society' like tax collectors etc.

    Jesus knew his purpose in life. At the age of 30 he started his mission and at the age of 33 his mission was fulfilled on earth.
    (I find it a strange thing that some Muslims say in paradise everyone will be 33?)

    Sex is for the union of man and woman, to procreate the earth, to live together and to be company for each other (as said above in the Adam and Eve bit), this wasn't Jesus mission. He knew he would die.

    ******************************** ******************************** *******************
    You said:-
    God created love as well as lust and these two natures/feelings are everlasting as long as we are everlasting. If God created food and drink and gave us leave to enjoy it (not merely only for survival), then God could as well create lust as a blessing.

    I do not believe God created lust. Lust is not love, it is a sign of the fall of man and the end result of lust doesn't fit in with the end result of love. God is love.

    Lust is man's desire, not God's.
    Lust is uncontrollable, God is fully in control.
    Lust is selfish, God is the opposite of selfish sacrificing Himself for us.

    Can you see how 'Lust' doesn't fit in with the nature of God?

    Lust is not a blessing.

    ******************************** ******************************** ******************
    You said:-
    Adam didn't have "earthly" desires before he sin - he had "human" desires. He felt lonely without Eve not because of some "earthly" desire but because he was a human. Everything will be changed but doesn't mean we all end up angels.

    So you are saying Adam did sin? A human who sins. So now you are saying Adam didn't sin, then he did sin. What happened to make him sin? Did he die sinful?
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    (Original post by Racoon)
    ...
    The earth is in a state of decay and decline, the facts are visible
    I agree.

    Quran 30:41 Corruption has appeared throughout the land and sea by [reason of] what the hands of people have earned so He may let them taste part of [the consequence of] what they have done that perhaps they will return [to righteousness].

    This is because of the work of man.

    “We already sing your praises. Why would you create someone on earth who will cause corruption and spill blood?”

    I would like to ask you why? Why did Allah create everything to die? How do we see Allah's mercy in that, what was the point of creation?


    Isn't this also a Christian belief that everyone (pure or impure) will die, except God?

    Death is not a punishment - it is merely one process that proves that we are not God. Just like the fact that we forget is a sign of weakness, death is too. It is not a consequence of sin!

    But if by "death" you mean everlasting death then yeah - this I agree is a consequence of kufr.

    Also, "And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah," (5:46)
    It's in the past tense so...

    The Christian perspective is that we were not created to die.
    Yeah, but death is not an end.

    Before Adam sinned everything was perfect, everything lived without dying. It was because of sin that death came into the world
    No the earth was in ruins before Adam was even created. The Jinn ruined the earth.

    What is there was more than one earth and more than one major creation of God? Would God have to send Jesus to his death on each and every earth? As I've said Islam seems to literally be more universal in nature than Christianity. That's why ex-Christians are drawn into Islam.

    You said:-
    " Everything would be altered into a new creation by God.
    But what makes us human would still be what makes us human"

    I think you need to reason with what you have said here. Everything gets altered yet humans remain human.
    The new earth will still be called earth. The new Jerusalem will still be called Jerusalem. The new heavens will still be the heavens.

    You said:-
    "Because we are humans before, now and after."
    You die don't you, as a human being. Then what? What happens to your decaying and failing human body?

    The human body corrupts, the bible says we shall be raised into newness of life and in a new body, a body fit for heaven, for an eternity. In these verses from the book of Revelation we read John's encounter with the Son of Man, the Jesus he knew.
    You have already said that we weren't created to die and by extension decay. But Adam was originally created from dust and he died and decayed without any change in his creation nature? So did God create him that way??

    No. He changed when he fell to earth. That is all. We are made from earth, and in the next life the righteous will indeed be created in a new creation but that is as a reward. Even if I were to be appear in Paradise this second with my same body - I wouldn't decay and I wouldn't die. Time and space is different there, as proven from the ahadith

    The Christian faith shows woman and man are to be equal in life demonstrated by god using a rib. Walking side by side not for the woman to be below a man. They are partners and are created to be each others helper and so that we don't live alone or be lonely, a person who's got our back.
    But you haven't answered my question...why won't there be SEX in the everlasting life? If God planned that for offspring SEX is needed, why doesn't that be true for the next life? If sex is haram in the everlasting life, is it something "unclean" and a necessary evil? Don't you feel that sex is a gift from God? If so why would God take it away? Is that gift worthless in some sense? Can any of God's gifts be?

    You said:-
    If Jesus ate, why didn't he have sex and produce children of God? Surely we share his image or nature.

    Jesus was born of Mary but did not have the genes of a sinful earthly father. Jesus although 100% human was also 100% divine. Jesus never sinned.

    He ate, it was a sociable thing to do and he used food as a focus of many parables and stories. Feeding of the 5,000, the Last Supper, sitting and eating with 'outcasts of society' like tax collectors etc.

    Jesus knew his purpose in life. At the age of 30 he started his mission and at the age of 33 his mission was fulfilled on earth.
    (I find it a strange thing that some Muslims say in paradise everyone will be 33?)

    Sex is for the union of man and woman, to procreate the earth, to live together and to be company for each other (as said above in the Adam and Eve bit), this wasn't Jesus mission. He knew he would die.
    Original Sin as a doctrine contradicts the beliefs propagated by the OT

    Ezek 18:4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
    Ezek 18:20The soul that sinneth, it shall die.
    Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.


    Also in Job 25, someone (holy) claims that anyone born of woman cannot be pure...

    2“Dominion and awe belong to God;he establishes order in the heights of heaven.3Can his forces be numbered?On whom does his light not rise?4How then can a mortal be righteous before God?How can one born of woman be pure?5If even the moon is not brightand the stars are not pure in his eyes,6how much less a mortal, who is but a maggot—a human being, who is only a worm!”
    I do not believe God created lust. Lust is not love, it is a sign of the fall of man and the end result of lust doesn't fit in with the end result of love. God is love.

    Lust is man's desire, not God's.
    Lust is uncontrollable, God is fully in control.
    Lust is selfish, God is the opposite of selfish sacrificing Himself for us.

    Can you see how 'Lust' doesn't fit in with the nature of God?

    Lust is not a blessing.
    Without lust there wouldn't be any more of man. Lust is a blessing and it is paramount for human life. Without lust in marriage, there is no chance for children.

    "How beautiful and how delightful you are, My love, with all your charms! "Your stature is like a palm tree, And your breasts are like its clusters. "I said, 'I will climb the palm tree, I will take hold of its fruit stalks.' Oh, may your breasts be like clusters of the vine, And the fragrance of your breath like apples, " (Song of Solomon 7:6-8)

    "A garden locked is my sister, my bride, A rock garden locked, a spring sealed up. ... Awake, O north wind, And come, wind of the south; Make my garden breathe out fragrance, Let its spices be wafted abroad. May my beloved come into his garden And eat its choice fruits!" (Song of Solomon 4:12,16)

    Such language would not have been used if lust is always sinful, or not a blessing.

    What happened to make him sin? Did he die sinful?
    He was seduced into sin by the Devil. The Devil sinned by rejecting God's command to bow to Adam, and Adam sinned by disobeying God. The Devil tried to blame God for it - and so was cast out. Adam did NOT pass the buck - but took full responsibility and asked God Himself to Forgive him - because God could do that. God indeed forgave him - the sin - but the consequences of the sin had to be experienced by Adam and by extensions all of us. So as a consequence of the forgiven sin we have to pass through earth, prove ourselves, and die in earth.

    Notice that even if Adam did not sin he would have died along with all the angels of heaven when the Trumpet is blown.
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    (Original post by Sciatic)

    But you haven't answered my question...why won't there be SEX in the everlasting life? If God planned that for offspring SEX is needed, why doesn't that be true for the next life? If sex is haram in the everlasting life, is it something "unclean" and a necessary evil? Don't you feel that sex is a gift from God? If so why would God take it away? Is that gift worthless in some sense? Can any of God's gifts be?


    ******************************** ******************************** *******************************

    Without lust there wouldn't be any more of man. Lust is a blessing and it is paramount for human life. Without lust in marriage, there is no chance for children.

    "How beautiful and how delightful you are, My love, with all your charms! "Your stature is like a palm tree, And your breasts are like its clusters. "I said, 'I will climb the palm tree, I will take hold of its fruit stalks.' Oh, may your breasts be like clusters of the vine, And the fragrance of your breath like apples, " (Song of Solomon 7:6-8)
    G
    "A garden locked is my sister, my bride, A rock garden locked, a spring sealed up. ... Awake, O north wind, And come, wind of the south; Make my garden breathe out fragrance, Let its spices be wafted abroad. May my beloved come into his garden And eat its choice fruits!" (Song of Solomon 4:12,16)

    Such language would not have been used if lust is always sinful, or not a blessing.
    Thank you for your reply. I'll just respond to these points for the moment, hopefully I'll get sometime tomorrow to do the rest.

    I did give the reasons for sex in my post earlier. The Christian faith doesn't believe we will be married or given in marriage in heaven. That doesn't mean to say it is unclean or evil just that it's usefulness and the desire for it is reserved for this life only. For example babies won't be born in heaven.

    You use the term 'gifts' very freely. What denotes gifts from God to you?

    I look to the bible to see what God calls 'gifts' as a starting point.

    ******************************** ******************************** ****************************

    The dictionary definition of lust is "intense or unrestrained sexual craving"

    This goes against God because knowing God in your life means you exercise self-control. Self control is a a fruit of the Spirit. Showing the fruit of God's Holy Spirit in your life differentiates you from the rest of the world who do not know God and who do not have to exercise self-control.

    "Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honourable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things. The things you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you". Philippians 4:8

    Sex is for a loving relationship within marriage.
    That is God's ideal.
    Lust is not love
    Lust focuses on pleasing itself.
    List is impure.
    Lust is not a blessing.
    Lust causes lots of problems.
    I think you are muddling up lust with love.

    God says to lust after someone is to commit adultery in your heart. When you stand before God on judgement day and he judges you according to your deeds would he find you innocent or guilty - based on his just and moral laws?

    1 Thessalonians 4:7–8 For God has not called us for impurity, but in holiness. 8 Therefore whoever disregards this, disregards not man but God, who gives his Holy Spirit to you.

    Mark 7:20-23 "And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”

    In fact the bible doesn't mince its words when it comes to how wrong lust is

    Job 31:11–12 For lust is a shameful sin,a crime that should be punished. It is a fire that burns all the way to hell.It would wipe out everything I own....

    God tells us to be in the world, but not of the world.

    Romans 12:1–2 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. 2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind…

    Also,

    The verses you chose to quote from the bible, because you believe them to back up your thoughts on lust but I'm sorry, they are not to be interpreted that way.

    Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
    7:1-9 The similitude here are different from what they were before, and in the original refer to glorious and splendid clothing. Such honour have all his saints; and having put on Christ, they are distinguished by their beautiful and glorious apparel. They adorn the doctrine of God their Saviour in all things. Consistent believers honour Christ, recommend the gospel, and convince and awaken sinners. The church resembles the stately and spreading palm; while her love for Christ, and the obedience resulting there from, are precious fruit of the true Vine. The King is held in the galleries. Christ takes delight in the assemblies and ordinances of his people; and admires the fruit of his grace in them. When applied to the church and to each faithful Christian, all this denotes that beauty of holiness, in which they shall be presented to their heavenly Bridegroom.
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    (Original post by Sciatic)
    ......
    What is there was more than one earth and more than one major creation of God? Would God have to send Jesus to his death on each and every earth? As I've said Islam seems to literally be more universal in nature than Christianity. That's why ex-Christians are drawn into Islam.
    The most important words above is 'what if'. We know life is here on this earth. God has given us no indication that there is life anywhere else in the universe.

    The bible tells us God has sent Jesus once.

    And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgement, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him. Hebrews 9 v 27


    There may be some ex-Christians who convert to Islam but many more are coming to know the saving grace of salvation through the blood of Jesus.

    List of converts to Christianity from Islam. Another estimate says in Africa, every year, 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity.
    List of converts to Christianity from Islam - Wikipedia, the ...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ity_from_Islam

    https://www.premierchristianity.com/...o-follow-Jesus

    http://www.muslimjourneytohope.com/watch.php
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    I fear dying, or more precisely being aware of the fact I'm dying. I fear knowing the thoughts of my parents, my friends, lost loves and great experiences I'd be having might be the last. I fear dying without dignity. Most of all I fear dying with too many regrets.

    I do not, however, fear being dead.
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    (Original post by Racoon)

    I did give the reasons for sex in my post earlier. The Christian faith doesn't believe we will be married or given in marriage in heaven. That doesn't mean to say it is unclean or evil just that it's usefulness and the desire for it is reserved for this life only. For example babies won't be born in heaven.
    Okay I got this.

    You use the term 'gifts' very freely. What denotes gifts from God to you?
    I don't know. It's anything that gives us happiness, pleasure or satisfaction as long as God had allowed it. It's anything of benefit to us spiritually, psychologically, mentally, physically, materialistically or socially. It's anything and everything of the good things in this world that God has allowed. It's anything that could be used in the worship of God, praising him or referred to for gratitude. The blessings of God cannot be enumerated.

    The dictionary definition of lust is "intense or unrestrained sexual craving"
    Sexual desire of a significant magnitude. Just like love can be unrestrained and uncontrollable, lust can be too. Just as love can be used to disobey God, lust can be too. Love and lust are two sides of the same coin - with regards to the marriage. You may love all women, and some more than your wife but you can only lust after your wife. And vice versa.

    This goes against God because knowing God in your life means you exercise self-control. Self control is a a fruit of the Spirit. Showing the fruit of God's Holy Spirit in your life differentiates you from the rest of the world who do not know God and who do not have to exercise self-control.
    What term is used for sexual desire that is totally under your control. My knowledge of English is horrible, but I have enough knowledge of human physiology to describe sexual desire as using a positive feedback mechanism to satisfy a desire that would not have been present if it was not triggered.

    "Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honourable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things. The things you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you". Philippians 4:8
    Amen

    Sex is for a loving relationship within marriage.
    That is God's ideal.
    Lust is not love
    Lust focuses on pleasing itself.
    List is impure.
    Lust is not a blessing.
    Lust causes lots of problems.
    I think you are muddling up lust with love.
    Isn't this why nuns and priests are allowed to love but not marry? The Prophets married (and some of them had concubine), without losing any of God's peace towards them.

    God says to lust after someone is to commit adultery in your heart. When you stand before God on judgement day and he judges you according to your deeds would he find you innocent or guilty - based on his just and moral laws?
    To put it bluntly, without lust you wouldn't have orgasms. And without orgasms you wouldn't have children. And without children the human race is doomed.

    1 Thessalonians 4:7–8 For God has not called us for impurity, but in holiness. 8 Therefore whoever disregards this, disregards not man but God, who gives his Holy Spirit to you.

    Mark 7:20-23 "And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”
    Yes, don't disagree

    In fact the bible doesn't mince its words when it comes to how wrong lust is

    Job 31:11–12 For lust is a shameful sin,a crime that should be punished. It is a fire that burns all the way to hell.It would wipe out everything I own....
    Lust is not always a means to sexual immorality.

    God tells us to be in the world, but not of the world.

    Romans 12:1–2 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. 2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind…

    Also,

    The verses you chose to quote from the bible, because you believe them to back up your thoughts on lust but I'm sorry, they are not to be interpreted that way.
    It glorifies lust between husband and wife, so it's something good.

    Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
    7:1-9 The similitude here are different from what they were before, and in the original refer to glorious and splendid clothing. Such honour have all his saints; and having put on Christ, they are distinguished by their beautiful and glorious apparel. They adorn the doctrine of God their Saviour in all things. Consistent believers honour Christ, recommend the gospel, and convince and awaken sinners. The church resembles the stately and spreading palm; while her love for Christ, and the obedience resulting there from, are precious fruit of the true Vine. The King is held in the galleries. Christ takes delight in the assemblies and ordinances of his people; and admires the fruit of his grace in them. When applied to the church and to each faithful Christian, all this denotes that beauty of holiness, in which they shall be presented to their heavenly Bridegroom.
    O children of Aadam (Adam), take your adornment at every Masjid, and eat and drink, but be not excessive. Indeed, He likes not those who commit excess. Say:“Who has forbidden the adornment of Allah which He has produced for His servants and the good [lawful] things of provision?” Say: “They are for those who believe during the worldly life [but] exclusively for them on the Day of Resurrection.” Thus, do we detail the verses for a people who know.

    Say, "My Lord has only forbidden immoralities - what is apparent of them and what is concealed - and sin, and oppression without right, and that you associate with Allah that for which He has not sent down authority, and that you say about Allah that which you do not know."

    [Quran 7:31-34]
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    (Original post by The Sociopath)
    this thread was created in 1970 s/o to the og of tsr
    :wtf: my parents weren't even born then ... :hmmmm2:
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    (Original post by Racoon)
    The most important words above is 'what if'. We know life is here on this earth. God has given us no indication that there is life anywhere else in the universe.

    The bible tells us God has sent Jesus once.

    And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgement, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him. Hebrews 9 v 27


    There may be some ex-Christians who convert to Islam but many more are coming to know the saving grace of salvation through the blood of Jesus.

    List of converts to Christianity from Islam. Another estimate says in Africa, every year, 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity.
    List of converts to Christianity from Islam - Wikipedia, the ...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ity_from_Islam

    https://www.premierchristianity.com/...o-follow-Jesus

    http://www.muslimjourneytohope.com/watch.php

    That's interesting. But what is sad is that all Churches in the West seem to be losing control of their flocks.

    Nevertheless if not for Islam there would have been at least 1 billion more Christians in this planet (forget the other planets), believing in the Trinity and in the crucifixion. It's true than in countries like Nigeria Christian da'wah is all-supreme. It should be surprising that Islam is persisting in spite of the negative notions about it the world over, and the sheer lack of organization (no church, no "evangelism") in Sunni Islam.
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    I don't have a religion, I don't believe in any kind of afterlife. I don't console myself with the idea that there will be nothing after death, I don't need to because it didn't bother me in the first place. After all, there was a whole load of nothing before I was born. How can I care about oblivion if I'll be dead and have no consciousness to be aware of it anyway?
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    Death is the most serene, beautiful silence yet the darkest, deepest depression any human faces.
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    (Original post by Sciatic)
    .............

    Isn't this why nuns and priests are allowed to love but not marry? The Prophets married (and some of them had concubine), without losing any of God's peace towards them. ...................
    I don't really know too much about priests or nuns suffice to say I understand it that they are married in a sense to God. This dedication requires them to commit fully to God and therefore they do not marry. Perhaps one of our catholic friends can shed more light onto this.

    Yes prophets married. Nothing wrong with that as far as I know. Marriage doesn't take away God's peace, God approves of marriage, marriage is good.
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    (Original post by Sciatic)
    That's interesting. But what is sad is that all Churches in the West seem to be losing control of their flocks.

    Nevertheless if not for Islam there would have been at least 1 billion more Christians in this planet (forget the other planets), believing in the Trinity and in the crucifixion. It's true than in countries like Nigeria Christian da'wah is all-supreme. It should be surprising that Islam is persisting in spite of the negative notions about it the world over, and the sheer lack of organization (no church, no "evangelism" in Sunni Islam.
    Its not surprising because as God says, the way to Him is narrow and difficult. The way of the world is a wide and easy road. Although the church I go to is packed, they have to have 11 different services on a Sunday in 4 different churches to get them all in.

    Well we don't know that for sure, perhaps they would be Buddhists or atheists or something else.

    God is reaching people in all corners of the earth. Time is short and people are hungry for the good news.

    God bless
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    (Original post by Racoon)
    Its not surprising because as God says, the way to Him is narrow and difficult. The way of the world is a wide and easy road. Although the church I go to is packed, they have to have 11 different services on a Sunday in 4 different churches to get them all in.

    Well we don't know that for sure, perhaps they would be Buddhists or atheists or something else.

    God is reaching people in all corners of the earth. Time is short and people are hungry for the good news.

    God bless

    Without any false bad news, ("original sin"), there wouldn't be any need for good news.
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    in islam death is soul journey from earth to another dimension called Barzakh or Realm of the soul.........
 
 
 
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