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    (Original post by Josb)
    Yes, but slaves didn't take the job of British workers, did they?



    People should be paid at the market price, according to the supply and demand rule. They shouldn't be paid more because they have a degree, how sick is that?
    I never said they did and that wasn't your question. You asked me who did the jobs before the immigrants and I replied with slaves. That is all.

    Urm, supply for workers will be based on how skilled the worker is for the job? Sorry is this surprising to you?? wow.
    If they have a degree they will be better skilled and more efficient for the job. That is what supply is based off?? What else would supply for labour be based off, how many hairs you have on your head?
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    (Original post by Josb)
    Didn't know Britain colonised Poland.
    I knew you would say that which is why I specifically said 'most of these immigrants'. Nice try.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    You seem to lack some basic knowledge of economics to understand the subject.

    People may ask for better wages, but they won't be given more automatically.

    SO what is your whole point of ' oh we need to get rid off immigrants so that workers can earn £15 for laying a brick' based off? Firms don't need to respond to workers demands and they wont if they are requesting £15 or more.
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    (Original post by lahorizon)
    I agree with you now but what I was saying was if you pay a bricklayer £15 then someone who currently earns £15 will ask for a pay rise too since they probably went through a decent amount of training to earn a relatively high wage of £15 per hour. Therefore, if they ask for a high wage then this will continue and everyone will demand a greater wage.
    Not really. Supply and demand will set the rate, not the fact that bricklayers are asking for $15. Rates get bid up when there is lots of work and few bricklayers to do it (housing booms) and bid down when there are an abundance of bricklayers with nothing to do (housing slump) Market forces will find the equilibrium.

    Your scenario is more the sort of thing you find when dealing with Organized Labour. So here in Canada, for example, a lot construction workers are members of quite powerful unions. In that case market forces don't function in quite the same way. (They work through collective bargaining agreements rather than on the individual) In the UK most construction workers are not protected by union (UCATT) membership.
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    The racism of certain individuals within this thread makes me feel relatively sick to my stomach. People don't complain about the elderly who move elsewhere in the world to 'Take up living space,' and 'Not work,' or the people who are of working age and have already done so. They also don't seem to mock or shun the 'White trash' part of the British population who are part of families where neither parents work and simply claim child benefits, take drugs and smoke heavily. Nobody complains about them because they're still part of our own ethnicity. It's relatively racist to wish and desire to throw out these individuals because they are filling the jobs that others won't do. They are not a threat to our economy, and they are not as bad as the media and most conservative/UKIP supporters make them out to be.

    If your country was under threat of war, had wide spread illness and panic, few job prospects and little freedom, wouldn't you want to get out? I'm pretty sure the majority of people would. We are a prosperous country which has plenty of opportunity to offer. Stop being so critical, just because they're doing a somewhat better job than a large proportion of us.
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    (Original post by lahorizon)
    I knew you would say that which is why I specifically said 'most of these immigrants'. Nice try.
    Most of the immigrants working in the UK are from the EU (2 million on 3.2 million overall). Nice try.


    (Original post by lahorizon)
    Urm, supply for workers will be based on how skilled the worker is for the job? Sorry is this surprising to you?? wow.
    If they have a degree they will be better skilled and more efficient for the job. That is what supply is based off?? What else would supply for labour be based off, how many hairs you have on your head?
    Having a degree in Sociology from an ex-poly doesn't mean that you're "skilled".

    Skills are languages, computer language skills, knowledge of legislation, administration and business practices, knowledge of running various machineries, etc. You don't necessarily get these at uni.

    (Original post by lahorizon)
    SO what is your whole point of ' oh we need to get rid off immigrants so that workers can earn £15 for laying a brick' based off? Firms don't need to respond to workers demands and they wont if they are requesting £15 or more.
    Firms will pay £15 if they can't find anybody to take the job. Supply and demand.
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    oh no tey tak all teh britash jubs
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    (Original post by lustawny)
    Wow, how could we possibly have coped as a nation for the past century, before we systematically began letting foreigners into the country? Nevermind the fact that we've been managing just fine for the past 2000+ years.
    I think you need to go and have a look at immigration patterns over the past '2000+ years'. Britain has always had people move in and out, wether this be peacefully or by force it has shaped modern Britain.


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    (Original post by Tinemither)
    The racism of certain individuals within this thread makes me feel relatively sick to my stomach. People don't complain about the elderly who move elsewhere in the world to 'Take up living space,' and 'Not work,' or the people who are of working age and have already done so. They also don't seem to mock or shun the 'White trash' part of the British population who are part of families where neither parents work and simply claim child benefits, take drugs and smoke heavily. Nobody complains about them because they're still part of our own ethnicity. It's relatively racist to wish and desire to throw out these individuals because they are filling the jobs that others won't do. They are not a threat to our economy, and they are not as bad as the media and most conservative/UKIP supporters make them out to be.

    If your country was under threat of war, had wide spread illness and panic, few job prospects and little freedom, wouldn't you want to get out? I'm pretty sure the majority of people would. We are a prosperous country which has plenty of opportunity to offer. Stop being so critical, just because they're doing a somewhat better job than a large proportion of us.
    Nobody said anything racist. Stop spouting that word to close any debate about immigration.
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    (Original post by Failingstudent98)
    I think you need to go and have a look at immigration patterns over the past '2000+ years'. Britain has always had people move in and out, wether this be peacefully or by force it has shaped modern Britain.
    I doubt it was ever 'peaceful' or even planned like immigration is today, to be honest.
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    The ones I've worked with are often extremely hardworking and often work beyond the typical hours required. No sick days, short breaks, holidays etc. It's as if their life or the lives of their loved ones depended on it (wouldn't be surprised if that's the case).
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    For the first time, I'm going to be controversial on TSR. EU immigration has not been good to the UK, and it would be better for it to stop. I may even vote out in the referendum if it stops or reduces EU migration.

    Do you really want to build the UK economy on low-wage jobs/labour from the EU and depress wages/working rights for UK nationals? Or do you want to import highly educated/highly skilled immigrants that will pay more tax on their earnings, create businesses and skilled jobs for the population here, and contribute to the likes of R&D, innovation, soft power and better relations with the major powers of tomorrow?

    The immigration policy of the UK has its priorities wrong.
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    (Original post by Tinemither)
    The racism of certain individuals within this thread makes me feel relatively sick to my stomach. People don't complain about the elderly who move elsewhere in the world to 'Take up living space,' and 'Not work,' or the people who are of working age and have already done so. They also don't seem to mock or shun the 'White trash' part of the British population who are part of families where neither parents work and simply claim child benefits, take drugs and smoke heavily. Nobody complains about them because they're still part of our own ethnicity. It's relatively racist to wish and desire to throw out these individuals because they are filling the jobs that others won't do. They are not a threat to our economy, and they are not as bad as the media and most conservative/UKIP supporters make them out to be.

    If your country was under threat of war, had wide spread illness and panic, few job prospects and little freedom, wouldn't you want to get out? I'm pretty sure the majority of people would. We are a prosperous country which has plenty of opportunity to offer. Stop being so critical, just because they're doing a somewhat better job than a large proportion of us.
    You have to be realistic about immigration when it comes to filling a country to bursting point with foreigners, though, regardless of whether or not they make a positive difference.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    Most of the immigrants working in the UK are from the EU (2 million on 3.2 million overall). Nice try.




    Having a degree in Sociology from an ex-poly doesn't mean that you're "skilled".

    Skills are languages, computer language skills, knowledge of legislation, administration and business practices, knowledge of running various machineries, etc. You don't necessarily get these at uni.


    Firms will pay £15 if they can't find anybody to take the job. Supply and demand.
    2 million out of 3.4 are from EU, ok but my point still stands. 1.7 million is the mid point so I am 0.3 million off -_- by saying 'most'. Ooops ...

    Yes you do if you study a language, computer science, law, management, physics. How else do you get these skills then?

    Can you tell me this please: why can't those who want £15 just work for £7? Isn't the issue here that we have a very generous welfare system that allows people to just sit at home? Or that we are not investing enough on training of manual jobs? Why must it always be blamed on the immigrants. Stop demonising those who migrate and leave their family back home just for £7 per hour.

    Why are we not arguing about how there are some very high skilled American expats and French expats who are occupying a lot of jobs that could easily be done by our currently unemployed graduates.

    It is clear that you have an issue with the typical low skilled worker just because they are not from Western Europe or USA. They are taking graduate jobs yet you are complaining only about the low skilled migrants.
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    (Original post by Yawn!)
    For the first time, I'm going to be controversial on TSR. EU immigration has not been good to the UK, and it would be better for it to stop. I may even vote out in the referendum if it stops or reduces EU migration.

    Do you really want to build the UK economy on low-wage jobs/labour from the EU and depress wages/working rights for UK nationals? Or do you want to import highly educated/highly skilled immigrants that will pay more tax on their earnings, create businesses and skilled jobs for the population here, and contribute to the likes of R&D, innovation, soft power and better relations with the major powers of tomorrow?

    The immigration policy of the UK has its priorities wrong.
    Yawn! I'm surprised at you. You fascist! Thatcherite! LOL!
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    What the **** is your problem if they aint british. Just cuz u got a **** education and failed all your gcse's. For ****s sake you dumb *******. If you at least got a degree you wouldnt be complaning
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    (Original post by lahorizon)

    Yes you do if you study a language, computer science, law, management, physics. How else do you get these skills then?
    You can learn these skills by yourself. Plenty of people do.

    (Original post by lahorizon)
    Can you tell me this please: why can't those who want £15 just work for £7? Isn't the issue here that we have a very generous welfare system that allows people to just sit at home? Or that we are not investing enough on training of manual jobs? Why must it always be blamed on the immigrants. Stop demonising those who migrate and leave their family back home just for £7 per hour.
    Because they have standards? I understand why people don't want to do exhausting jobs for nothing.

    I don't demonise low-skilled migrants. I just say they are not needed.

    (Original post by lahorizon)
    Why are we not arguing about how there are some very high skilled American expats and French expats who are occupying a lot of jobs that could easily be done by our currently unemployed graduates.
    They pay a lot of taxes; they have a job that requires native language skills; they help British companies to sell abroad thanks to their network and knowledge of local economics. Something that an immigrant paid the minimum wage can't match.

    (Original post by lahorizon)
    It is clear that you have an issue with the typical low skilled worker just because they are not from Western Europe or USA. They are taking graduate jobs yet you are complaining only about the low skilled migrants.
    I don't really care about their origin. All I want is immigrants that benefit the host country.
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    *gasp* One in ten?!

    That's...actually kind of underwhelming. =/
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    Because lots of British people are lazy scroungers on benefits.
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    (Original post by MrDystopia)
    This is it. If they don't work, they're scrounging off benefits. If they do, it's cause they're taking our jobs
    .
    Yup, so why let them in in the first place?

    It's lose lose.

    300,000 arrive (net) every year. A city the size of Ccventry every single twelve months.

    And people wonder why we have a housing crisis. Why our schools are over subscribed, why we can't get a GPs appointment or wait hours in A&E, why the trains are full to bursting at rush hour, there is grid lock on the roads.

    Wouldn't a sensible country think hang on a minute, lets decide who we let in and who not, rather than just accepting whoever wants to come to a much richer country than theirs?

    And leave the EU which forces us to take in all and sundry. Once these refugees get German citizenship they will start coming over too.

    You mark my words.
 
 
 
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