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    It depends of what would change. If the UK gets a similar status as Switzerland, and stays in the EEA, then it's probably better to leave.

    The common feeling across Europe is that the UK has never been in the EU; it seems that since 1973, they have tried to undo or resist to all the European legislation. It looks better for both parts to move separately.

    The UK should try to have better immigration/cooperation deals with Canada, the USA and Australasia, whilst still being able to attract high skilled European workers. It won't have access to European grants, but it won't have to pay for the EU.

    As a firm Paneuropean, I say that the EU has failed and it's just a matter of time before we witness its disintegration. Creating a common market and currency without a government, and open borders without federal police, customs and coast guards, was foolish.
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    Leave because I actually believe in democracy.
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    (Original post by *Stefan*)
    Lol... Not a chance.

    Said countries will be furious and will block any deals.

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    The 'said countries' have no choice. Period. And who needs their rubbish deals? If we leave the EU, then we can govern ourselves and considering we made it through 2 world wars almost single-handedly, there's no question about it.
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    (Original post by TuppenceB)
    The 'said countries' have no choice. Period. And who needs their rubbish deals? If we leave the EU, then we can govern ourselves and considering we made it through 2 world wars almost single-handedly, there's no question about it.
    You must be joking right? If you think the UK will be anything of what it is today without any EU deal you're sleeping in the ninth dream.

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    (Original post by *Stefan*)
    You must be joking right? If you think the UK will be anything of what it is today without any EU deal you're sleeping in the ninth dream.

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    How has any so called EU deal ever helped make the UK what it is today? More migrants perhaps, but anything else..?
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    (Original post by TuppenceB)
    How has any so called EU deal ever helped make the UK what it is today? More migrants perhaps, but anything else..?
    I'm stopping this here as you simply have no clue on what you're talking about.

    Here's your Democracy...

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    (Original post by *Stefan*)
    I'm stopping this here as you simply have no clue on what you're talking about.

    Here's your Democracy...

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    Ok let's agree to disagree . I'm assuming you want 'in' then.
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    Wow this was disappointing. I expected some reasons i hadnt considered as i myself am undecided but apparently people cba to say why. Fair enough i suppose.

    (Original post by Xysoo)
    Lol this is a perfect example.

    Most of the people saying leave are people who have very little understanding of economics and the significant negative impact leaving would have on the UK, and are basically just racist/xenophobes who dont want to see any more foreigners in the country, so they're voting to leave.



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    Or, maybe they are informed individuals who disagree with your position?

    You have provided no facts on pro-EU economics, there is no legal reason we cannot buy back in to the free market as other countries do at a cost far less than our membership fees and it allows us to establish mutually beneficial trade agreements further afield. I dont study economics but that seems to be economically positive surely?

    As for the significant negative impact such as what? On one hand the pro-EU crowd proudly say that we still have parliamentary democracy and supremacy as the EU barely ever gets involved (last year they overruled 11 decisions is a popular fact atm) but on the other they say leaving is disastrous despite these two statements being mutually contradictory. Of course i think losing the HRA will be a nightmare, i certainly dont trust British government to deliver a fair bill of rights in any way.

    As for this racist argument just no. As somebody that touts an understanding of economics you seem blind to how increasing a population massively and far beyond the increase in jobs is economically nonviable and therefore people oppose it because it raises taxes or causes austerity to pay for it all, directly negatively affecting them. Race isnt a factor, people want security for them and their children and this blind ideological pursuit of so called anti-racism is blind to the fact most people dont care if immigrants are French, Syrian, Mexican, Chinese or Southern Irish, they just want to know they will have a reasonable chance to live with a possibility of bettering their own position and getting the best they can for their kids. It is not xenophobia to want to get the best out of life you possibly can and it is basically slander to suggest otherwise in so far as people looking out for themselves is not inherently because they are scared of everyone not like them, that simply doesnt follow. Most people dont care if they work with an Englishman, an Asian or an Indian so long as they can get the job in the first place. The problems in the NHS for example arent just coincidentally linked to a population boom, there is good reason why more people cause more pressure on time and money.

    (Original post by frostyy)
    This referendum is so moronic. People with degrees in areas that are very involved in how Europe works and how this will affect the UK are not sure which route Britain should take and what will be the most appropriate decision, yet the government - which I actually doubt would have the insanity to do, but hey, perhaps that is the case - is allowing an average Joe, or a 'can I speak with the manager' Sharon, to decide something that will affect millions of people, many of which are outside of the country's borders. But you know man, democracy.
    Yes heaven forbid lesser intellects have an opinion on anything. Its not like the mass propagandising of the subject by people who should know better is making it impossible for people to make a judgement on the issue.
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    (Original post by TuppenceB)
    The 'said countries' have no choice. Period. And who needs their rubbish deals? If we leave the EU, then we can govern ourselves and considering we made it through 2 world wars almost single-handedly, there's no question about it.
    Britain did fight 2 world wars single handedly with the help of Americans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, French, Czechs, Poles, Danes, Norwegians, Fins, Dutch, Belgians, Chinese, Indians, Brazilians, Burmese, Vietnamese, Nepalnese, Russians but apart from all these people, Britain did fight alone.

    You do sound a bit ignorant to be honest.
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    (Original post by *Stefan*)
    You must be joking right? If you think the UK will be anything of what it is today without any EU deal you're sleeping in the ninth dream.

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    Please tell me why the 5th soon to be 4th largest economy in the world, the eu's biggest export market with an 80 billion a year trade deficit with the Eu can't get a trade deal but Mexico can lol


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    (Original post by paul514)
    Please tell me why the 5th soon to be 4th largest economy in the world, the eu's biggest export market with an 80 billion a year trade deficit with the Eu can't get a trade deal but Mexico can lol
    For the same reason the first and second largest economies don't have one.

    It's not that hard to understand.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    Please tell me why the 5th soon to be 4th largest economy in the world, the eu's biggest export market with an 80 billion a year trade deficit with the Eu can't get a trade deal but Mexico can lol


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    The British economy is not a single block. Britain imports a lot of cars from Europe so it has a bit of sway with European car makers but does not import a lot of tequila. So if it wants a trade deal with Mexico, the Mexicans can see export to Britain is small and does not have a lot of leverage.
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    Stay is clearly the only way forward. The more and more I look at it the more I see the generations prior to people here are stuck with this image in their heads that the UK is this amazing centre of the world country where everything is peachy. We are far from peachy, we suffer from poor governance and right now that same governance which has been mucking the whole country through the muck is trying to lavish blame for everything that is wrong with the UK at the feet of the EU. It is because of the EU that we haven't gone completely down the crapper.
    So many people have been buying into the fearmongering that 'oh no migrants are horrible and bad!' that is no better than a byline that the BNP of all people would spout. Most migrants that come from different countries WANT a better quality of life, they want to work and make good for themselves. It is a myth that they're coming over to 'steal our benefits' because it is that much easier to say that than accept that no matter what ethic group you take there are always those who want to work for what they want and those that choose to freeload. Hell we have enough britons that do it when there are many more britons who genuinely need the support because of sickness, disablity and other problems.
    Quite honestly at this point our entire political system needs a proper upheaval before we start looking more and more like America.
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    (Original post by frostyy)
    This referendum is so moronic. People with degrees in areas that are very involved in how Europe works and how this will affect the UK are not sure which route Britain should take and what will be the most appropriate decision, yet the government - which I actually doubt would have the insanity to do, but hey, perhaps that is the case - is allowing an average Joe, or a 'can I speak with the manager' Sharon, to decide something that will affect millions of people, many of which are outside of the country's borders. But you know man, democracy.
    You know what? You're absolutely right.

    It's actually ****** hilarious. And the best thing of all is that Cameron never expected to be in this position but he only went and got a majority!


    I can't wait for us to come out which will probably hasten the end of the EU.

    Farage is an absolute ******* hero and if he isn't knighted next year it will be a disgrace!
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    There are probably in reality a handful of individuals in this country who understand this issue well enough to make an informed decision. The truth is that I don't know whether we'd be better off out or in, but I know this.

    The Prime Minister wants us to stay, every former living Prime Minister wants us to stay, every major party leader and former major party leader bar the Communists and the fruitcakes want us to stay, the President of the United States wants us to stay, big business wants us to stay and Europe wants us to stay.
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    I'm a tad unsure but more convinced by the stay arguments.
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    I'll definitely vote to stay, there's significantly fewer advantages to leaving the EU than from staying.

    That said, it'd be interesting to see what happens if we vote out...
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    (Original post by Maker)
    Britain did fight 2 world wars single handedly with the help of Americans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, French, Czechs, Poles, Danes, Norwegians, Fins, Dutch, Belgians, Chinese, Indians, Brazilians, Burmese, Vietnamese, Nepalnese, Russians but apart from all these people, Britain did fight alone.

    You do sound a bit ignorant to be honest.
    That's why I said almost single handedly, ok? Who cares about the tiny insignificant details here? It's a simple question we're bothered about - stay or leave. And everyone is entitled to their opinion.
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    sgrwsgs
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    (Original post by TuppenceB)
    The 'said countries' have no choice. Period. And who needs their rubbish deals? If we leave the EU, then we can govern ourselves and considering we made it through 2 world wars almost single-handedly, there's no question about it.
    No grasp of history or economics.

    No surprise that you are anti EU.
 
 
 
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