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Is there anything positive about the future direction of England? watch

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    (Original post by Backto95)
    The spread of Islam will lead to a reduction in teen single mothers and all the other vicissitudes. People will be so scared of getting literally battered by the law (Sharia by then hopefully) that the crime rate will just plummet.
    Sounds positively utopian -.-


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    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    completely understand this post.

    I never really had the same feelings, until I left England... but now, looking back, its hard to rationalize returning.

    I currently live in china, which does have its problems, and due to still being a developing country, certainly lacks a lot of the luxury that england has, outside of major city centers.. but, most importantly it ticks off the essential boxes of my life:

    Here I can:

    - Easily secure stable work, that pays a very decent wage.
    - Live a decent quality of life on around 25% of my monthly income.
    - Buy a flat (no mortgage) in less then 2-3 years.
    - afford a decent car, and to pay for transport.

    Compared to my friends back in the UK, life here just makes a lot of sense.

    I look back at england and I just see problems, especially for young people:

    - Housing that would cost me 5-6x my yearly sallery (in my families area of the UK)
    - Ridiculous cost of living, that would reduce my ability to save/have a relaxing financially independent life
    - a population thats to busy fighting and arguing then actually getting things done
    - Jobs that require a stupid amount of red-tape, lengthy application processes, and in the end are not very secure/reliable.
    - A fractured society that does not know what it wants to be, with an increasingly unhappy native population.
    (more on that last point spoiled bellow due to length, and lack of relivance)

    Spoiler:
    Show
    My wife is not english. She came here to do a masters at a london university, and honestly for the first few months in England she was completely disappointed. In her country england still has a great reputaton, but when she arrived and spent a few months in london, to her it did not feel english at all (aside from the center). - it wasnt until she met me, and I took her away from the major cities, out into the small towns around my home, that she really saw the country that she believed england to be.. and that does worry me.

    For my family, and many others its a problem that often does not seem to affect us. We live in small towns where life still feels very traditional. county fairs, vegetable contest, primary school carnivals, Victorian fairs at Christmas, church fates, strong local communities, and (dare I say it) a still 95%+ white English population. for us, life still resembles older English life, and what other countries perceive English life/values to be.. but in reality this bares little to no resemblance of how the vast vast majority of english people live. Before coming to china, I lived in london and liverpool, and both really concern me.

    Not because the idea of many cultures living together is bad.. just because I did not really see it. I saw many cultures living largely interdependently from each other, and very rarely intergrating.

    Even in the chinese community, one that is largely ignored by the anti-immigration bunch, there was often no integration with white english people. Through my wife I started to spend time with chinese communities, and often I became the only white friend they had, and the only time they would routinely speak English outside of work/shopping/necessity.

    This is certianly not completly the fault of the minority groups within the UK, but for me is a problem which innately exists in us as humans. We like to identify with groups, be part of something bigger then ourselves, it makes us feel safe/secure/wanted. For some people these are groups of people our age, or who go the same school/uni, who have the same political ideas, who like the same music etc. - but for a lot of people its also those who are the same race/ethnicity/background as us. Sure for some this is not an issue, but for many, even though they cant quite explain why.. they just feel an underlying comfort with the idea of living and existing with a majority having the same culture/race/religion/background.

    I dont personally think that feeling will ever go away, and despite our best attempts at full integration, we will still find ourselves living in a fractured society, that devides itself by race.. for a long time.


    For me, living away from england feels good.. last year with the terror attacks in france, the crisis in europe, and now the fighting over in/out of the EU - I can watch it from a distance, and be glad im not fully involved.

    China has its own problems though, I would never start a family here.. due to the way they treat children, and its to built up/dependent on large cities, for a countryside person like myself.

    If you removed my family back in england from the equasion, I would try and settle in probably New Zealand, or Canada.

    But all things considered, I could never have my grandchildren away from my family.. so despite all of its problems, I am tied to england, and will return soon enough to make the best out of what ever the future holds for this/my country.
    > lives in someone's else country, benefits from it
    > criticise the same people you benefit from for doing the same


    Yup


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    (Original post by HucktheForde)
    > lives in someone's else country, benefits from it
    > criticise the same people you benefit from for doing the same


    Yup


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    You seem to have slightly confused my point..

    No where have I criticized people for benefiting from working in another country. Rather what I criticized was the lack of integration between groups in the UK. An issue that I put down to a very human urge to spend time with those we feel a familiarity with, rather then blaming either the majority or minority communities.

    I am always in favor of immigration, the UK needs it, and it should continue. but I do have many criticisms and worries regarding how we manage immigration.

    My criticisms towards the Chinese community in England, could be completely mirrored and applied to a lot of the expat communities in china. I have met a few workers over here who only have western friends, and see the local Chinese as little more then an inconvenience to their lives.

    For me, half my family are Chinese, I speak the language, live with my Chinese family, work with Chinese people, go out with my Chinese friends, enjoy all the local customs/traditions with my family. I would never dream of doing differently, because its the exact same thing that I expect of my Chinese family when they come to stay for long periods in England.
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    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    You seem to have slightly confused my point..

    No where have I criticized people for benefiting from working in another country. Rather what I criticized was the lack of integration between groups in the UK. An issue that I put down to a very human urge to spend time with those we feel a familiarity with, rather then blaming either the majority or minority communities.

    I am always in favor of immigration, the UK needs it, and it should continue. but I do have many criticisms and worries regarding how we manage immigration.

    My criticisms towards the Chinese community in England, could be completely mirrored and applied to a lot of the expat communities in china. I have met a few workers over here who only have western friends, and see the local Chinese as little more then an inconvenience to their lives.

    For me, half my family are Chinese, I speak the language, live with my Chinese family, work with Chinese people, go out with my Chinese friends, enjoy all the local customs/traditions with my family. I would never dream of doing differently, because its the exact same thing that I expect of my Chinese family when they come to stay for long periods in England.
    Its not true. The immigration critics completely left Chinese out because they don't feel that they are not integrating. Not true from my experience as well.

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    (Original post by HucktheForde)
    Its not true. The immigration critics completely left Chinese out because they don't feel that they are not integrating. Not true from my experience as well.

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    I can appreciate that we have different experiences with the Chinese community in the UK, and Im sure there are some communities in parts of the uk that do integrate very well, as well as those that I have experienced who dont.

    I would add though, that I think a large reason that the heavy immigration critics ignore Chinese and most east Asian immigration, is due to its lack of connection to the EU, or Islam, two topics which always invoke scrutiny towards a minority group.
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    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    I can appreciate that we have different experiences with the Chinese community in the UK, and Im sure there are some communities in parts of the uk that do integrate very well, as well as those that I have experienced who dont.

    I would add though, that I think a large reason that the heavy immigration critics ignore Chinese and most east Asian immigration, is due to its lack of connection to the EU, or Islam, two topics which always invoke scrutiny towards a minority group.
    It's mainly because comparatively there's so few of them compared to Brown, Black and Eastern European people.
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    (Original post by Ravenous)
    It's mainly because comparatively there's so few of them compared to Brown, Black and Eastern European people.
    Actually one of the highest groups of immigrants are Chinese at the moment.


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    (Original post by paul514)
    Actually one of the highest groups of immigrants are Chinese at the moment.
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    They are the reason why property prices in many parts of the UK are sky high. There are property conventions in China almost every other day. So the Chinese merely turn up and purchase these property - all this without having to enter the UK.

    http://www.enviroestates.co.uk/china-desk/the-stats
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sponsored...al-estate.html
    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34542147

    I am also looking to purchase a property in London in the coming months, with the help of my parents.
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    Britain isn't going in the right direction. But immigration isn't the problem. It's our slide in parochialism, conservatism, all right Jack attitudes, selfishness and gluttony. Then you throw in the great British tendency to blame out groups for our failings and problems.

    Take what happened in Cologne. Shocking as it was, it was also quite unexceptional. It was strange to see so many Brits get angry at it when we live in a country with almost 200 rapes a day and that the also fairly recent news that up to 450,000 children were sexually abused barely elicits a response. Calling out migrants and the failings of their culture when we don't truly acknowledge the endemic levels of sexual violence in our own country is pure cognitive dissonance.
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    (Original post by Audrey18)
    They are the reason why property prices in many parts of the UK are sky high. There are property conventions in China almost every other day. So the Chinese merely turn up and purchase these property - all this without having to enter the UK.

    http://www.enviroestates.co.uk/china-desk/the-stats
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sponsored...al-estate.html
    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34542147

    I am also looking to purchase a property in London in the coming months, with the help of my parents.
    They aren't the reason prices are so high they are a symptom of those ever higher prices.

    The only cause of rising house prices is not building enough houses to satisfy demand.

    The extra demand comes from migrants each year and this has been going on for decades it has just continually speed up over the last two decades


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    (Original post by paul514)
    They aren't the reason prices are so high they are a symptom of those ever higher prices. The only cause of rising house prices is not building enough houses to satisfy demand. The extra demand comes from migrants each year and this has been going on for decades it has just continually speed up over the last two decades
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    Please don't blame the migrants. Let them come in. They want a better life for themselves and their families.
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    (Original post by RivalPlayer)
    I'm starting to believe that England isn't a good place to settle and have a family. I just don't see anything positive about the direction England seems to be heading in. We've got a buckling NHS, nurses leaving the NHS, doctors leaving the country, teacher recruitment crisis, problems with end-of-life care, an increasingly socially fragmented growing population and a lack of affordable housing.
    We're constantly being told that we're a secular country yet no one ever talks about the growth of Islam which comes with its own issues in terms cultural changes and integration. And then there's Europe's migrant crisis which will likely worsen as conflicts unfold and the effects of global warming become more apparent. It is inevitable that Europe will cop the side effects of these emerging problems in a big way.

    All of this stuff concerns me and in recent months, I've really started to think that England won't be the place to be if you plan on settling down, having a family and leading a good life. I think the ordinary citizen of the future will be living in a very fragmented society with low levels of social cohesion and will face a far poorer quality of life than they would today. I think Islam will also have a far greater presence than what we're used to now and that will create further division and friction in society. They'll be more non-diverse enclaves established with places like Newham / Tower Hamlets existing in far greater numbers. We'll see greater pressure placed on services and resources, but we'll accept it as a consequence of diversity because of our infamous tolerance.

    The future doesn't look bright from where I'm sitting. Maybe I'm just overblowing it or perhaps you can relate.

    How do you feel about the future of England?
    Britain will evolve into a nation from military power to a peaceful nation, as modern time becomes more closer Britain will become more expensive and due to overpopulated the wages will slack behind due to pressure of workers coming in, however we are one of the most fairest, caring, powerful nations out there.
    Would you perfer to live in powehungery Russia or Britain where we're stabled in power and elsewhere.
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    (Original post by Audrey18)
    Please don't blame the migrants. Let them come in. They want a better life for themselves and their families.
    Err blame and fact are different things.

    What I said is a fact.


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    (Original post by stefano865)
    Nonsense.

    There are plenty of people, particularly the elderly, who love spouting rubbish about how this country is going 'downhill'.

    Every country has its problems. Taking everything into consideration this is still a great country to live in.

    They experienced a better, more cohesive, less fragmented country and can compare that to what exists today.

    You will be able to do the same in thirty or forty years if you stay here. And you may regard what exists now as a haven of peace compared to what is to come as the social and cultural balkanisation accelerates.
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    (Original post by RivalPlayer)
    I've come across Chinese people that don't feel a need to learn English despite living in London for decades. They rely on their English speaking children or goverment provided translators to translate as required. They live in such a way because their social circle only consists of other Chinese people. Not bothering to learn English is a prime example of poor integration.

    Vietnamese gangs dominate the UK's £1bn cannabis trade. And almost all trafficked people linked to the UK cannabis industry are of Vietnamese ethnicity. These immigrants were given residency in this country and decide to repay the favour by flooding the UK with drugs and trafficking people for their own financial gain. Does that really make them better integrated than a radical Islamic hate preacher shouting "death to Great Britain" in Finsbury Park?
    People from (Chinese and Vietnamese) communities are very closed-off and tend to keep a low profile. That's why you assume they're all well integrated and aren't doing anything harmful to the wider society.
    inconsistent with first hand experience. Most of those you mentioned are mostly first generation immigrants.

    There is a group called Chinese friends of conservative group, basically Chinese community that works closely with the conservative party to handle problems related to chinese immigrants, I've seen them and their work, they are all well integrated and dont commit crimes.

    If you read the papers, Home office once mentioned that the Chinese community in the UK are least likely to claim benefits, more likely to be educated, more likely to work and pay taxes, and less likely to have health problems, and also least likely to commit crime.

    What you said is pulled out of imagination.Absolutely not true.
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    (Original post by RivalPlayer)
    No, they wern't first gen immigrants. They came here in the late 80s and early 90s.
    And none of this means there everything is above board. A lot of east Asian communities are very good at concealing illicit activities behind legitimate businesses. The Chinese (and Vietnamese) communities are silent and closed-off. The points listed doesn't mean they're culturally well integrated. Most still prefer to stick with their own people when it comes to socialising and relationships.

    Apart from cuisine and Chinatowns, I can't think of any other significant cultural contributions from these groups. I can't even think of any prominent British Chinese figures in TV, radio or politics - despite decades of immigration. Even on this board, the Chinese contributors are predicatably non-existent or keep an incredibly low profile. Is that good integration? They are an insular community. And that's why the spotlight is never cast on them and they're made out to be the model immigrant success story with no apparent faults.
    Yes, they are great at hiding and concealing these activities, apparently they also control the weather and move currencies, its just that these activities are all hidden from the public, the newspaper do not report them and we can only get these information by anonymous posters on public internet forums (which are certainly true beyond question). Man i need go and hunt some chinese to see what other activities they are hiding from us!
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    (Original post by Phantom Lord)
    He's partially right about Vietnamese. Their nationals (probably) have the highest crime rate in the UK. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...d-Britons.html
    I dont really like them either tbh. but i wont stereotype them and paint everyone with the same brush.
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