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Euthanasia - a solution to suffering? Watch

  • View Poll Results: Euthanasia - yes or no?
    Yes - it can end suffering
    50
    80.65%
    No - far too many variables between cases
    6
    9.68%
    Not informed enough
    1
    1.61%
    Needs more research before we make a decision
    5
    8.06%

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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    If you want to put it like that. Usually with euthanasia, the patient is the one who has to injest the deadly drug or drink themselves. It's not like the doctor is standing over them with a machete.
    ...then that's suicide, surely?
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    (Original post by hezzlington)
    ...then that's suicide, surely?
    In many cases, yes, it's technically assisted suicide.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    In many cases, yes, it's technically assisted suicide.
    If they're in a vegetative state it will be the healthcare professional that performs the euthanasia.
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    (Original post by hezzlington)
    If they're in a vegetative state it will be the healthcare professional that performs the euthanasia.
    Following the consent of the patient, yes. I've not argued against that. What is your point here? In some cases, the doctor may ultimately have to administer the deadly drug, yes.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Following the consent of the patient, yes. I've not argued against that. What is your point here? In some cases, the doctor may ultimately have to administer the deadly drug, yes.
    What if the patient is unable to consent? Who gives the family authority to make the decision? What if the patient has no family? The doctor decides if the life is not worth living? What gives the doctor that authority to take somebodies life?

    My point is that euthanasia is a really complex issue on so many levels. It's no where near as simple as saying that a patient has the right to choose whether they live or not.
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    I think it should be allowed only when the person has virtually no chance of getting better without a miracle
    like for instance with terminal cancer who wish to end their lives. The individual has to consent to it, but there's always the scenario of when they're on life support and they can't consent. What if the family/ doctor decides to switch it off but they don't want it off? And you end up with something like
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...e-courage.html
    Or they're too mentally unstable to consent.

    Those who suffer from depression and mental health illnesses or physical illnesses that CAN be improved and they can get better shouldn't be allowed imo. I know people will come at me like "WHO ARE YOU TO SAY HOW MUCH WE SUFFER" but the system will be abused if those who can get better still kill themselves. No one's preventing them from committing suicide. Because then even I can waltz in and say i hate my life and want to die and technically they'd have to kill me.
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    (Original post by hezzlington)
    What if the patient is unable to consent? Who gives the family authority to make the decision? What if the patient has no family? The doctor decides if the life is not worth living? What gives the doctor that authority to take somebodies life?

    My point is that euthanasia is a really complex issue on so many levels. It's no where near as simple as saying that a patient has the right to choose whether they live or not.
    It's not though. You are referring to the exceptions. There will always be exceptions to everything. Most people will be able to consent though, and those people should most certainly be given the choice.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    It's not though. You are referring to the exceptions. There will always be exceptions to everything. Most people will be able to consent though, and those people should most certainly be given the choice.
    Well this is life and death we are talking about so what happens in those 'exceptions'? It's a grey area.. There has to be consistent law and policy that can be applied otherwise it won't work. It's exceptional circumstances that warrant euthanasia, it's not something that's taken lightly.
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    (Original post by hezzlington)
    Well this is life and death we are talking about so what happens in those 'exceptions'? It's a grey area.. There has to be consistent law and policy that can be applied otherwise it won't work. It's exceptional circumstances that warrant euthanasia, it's not something that's taken lightly.
    There cannot be a consistent law to apply to everything. They should all be handled on a case by case basis. Circumstances vary as you have suggested.

    Families can consent, is it so different to being removed from life support? This isn't a taboo thing because it's widely accepted.
    People with no family may have a close friend consent, or perhaps a panel of doctors or even courts.
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    (Original post by the bear)
    as a Christian i am fundamentally opposed to people playing God. the Almighty has decreed the time and nature of our passing. it is not for some box ticking bureaucrat with their eye on the care bill to decide.
    No he has not. The existence of such suffering without hope should cause any half intelligent person to question the nature of God, and ultimately his existence.

    What a sorry situation we've manoeuvred ourselves into, using religion as a restraint and control, to the point where someone is not allowed to escape a living nightmare so wretched that they would rather end their life.

    For every excuse a person makes for God permitting such suffering, they are making a small but incredibly sad contribution to the history of the human race I feel.

    I would support an individual having the right to end their own life. I am hoping that I will be allowed to do this if I feel it necessary in future.
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    (Original post by hezzlington)
    Did you work with any patients that had severe brain damage and or next to no quality of life? A human vegetable?

    How do you feel about DNR policy?
    Yes, I did. In those cases, I think you've hit the nail on the head in terms of how difficult consent is in these scenarios. Do the family decide? Do the doctors? Also, I don't believe that the value of someone's life can be measured by life satisfaction. Is someone's life worth more because they're happy and having fun vs someone that's depressed and not having fun? If a life isn't more valuable there, why is it more valuable in an extreme scenario? Surely if life satisfaction is a measure of life value then it can be applied across the board and not just in these extreme scenarios where its fits an agenda?

    As for DNR (Do not resuscitate, for anyone reading) I believe there's a large difference in letting someone that has naturally died stay dead and actually killing them. To be blunt, I support DNR but I think that the only similarity between DNR and Euthanasia is there's a dead body in both of them.

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    (Original post by the bear)
    as a Christian i am fundamentally opposed to people playing God. the Almighty has decreed the time and nature of our passing. it is not for some box ticking bureaucrat with their eye on the care bill to decide.
    But wouldn't God's hand be behind the bureaucrat's box ticking?
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    There cannot be a consistent law to apply to everything. They should all be handled on a case by case basis. Circumstances vary as you have suggested.

    Families can consent, is it so different to being removed from life support? This isn't a taboo thing because it's widely accepted.
    People with no family may have a close friend consent, or perhaps a panel of doctors or even courts.
    Hmm good point.

    But what about when there is a conflict of interest. Insurance, or a will? Could have a year+ but let's just end the life now so we get the money now, see what I'm saying?
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    (Original post by hezzlington)
    Hmm good point.

    But what about when there is a conflict of interest. Insurance, or a will? Could have a year+ but let's just end the life now so we get the money now, see what I'm saying?
    Yes, I do see what you're saying. I would imagine though that some form of will would have been created not long after the patient is diagnosed, but of course, a situation can change drastically and it's also a little insensitive to tell someone they're dying before asking them to write a will all in the same breath, so yes I do get it.
    It's just that for the majority of cases, these things are non-issues.
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    This has become somewhat of a personal issue for me as of late. My Grandad is terminally ill with a brain tumour - we will be lucky if he makes it through the weekend. My dad said to me on the phone on Friday 'if euthanasia was legal in this country it would have been done already'... This might seem cruel to some but seeing him like this I have to say I agree. I'm sorry but I'd rather give my Grandad a peaceful death than see him suffer like this.

    And I'm not saying 'suffer' just for the sake of this argument. Just today they had to up his pain meds and he can't even feed himself anymore. When I compare this to the person he used to be I can 100% say he is suffering.

    So I completely agree with legalising Euthaniasia as long as controls are put in place to make sure that it is not abused - agreement of doctors etc. Maybe even asking everyone at the same time as they are asked about organ donation etc. If they would want to be euthanised if they ended up in this situation.
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    (Original post by emiloujess)
    This has become somewhat of a personal issue for me as of late. My Grandad is terminally ill with a brain tumour - we will be lucky if he makes it through the weekend. My dad said to me on the phone on Friday 'if euthanasia was legal in this country it would have been done already'... This might seem cruel to some but seeing him like this I have to say I agree. I'm sorry but I'd rather give my Grandad a peaceful death than see him suffer like this.

    And I'm not saying 'suffer' just for the sake of this argument. Just today they had to up his pain meds and he can't even feed himself anymore. When I compare this to the person he used to be I can 100% say he is suffering.

    So I completely agree with legalising Euthaniasia as long as controls are put in place to make sure that it is not abused - agreement of doctors etc. Maybe even asking everyone at the same time as they are asked about organ donation etc. If they would want to be euthanised if they ended up in this situation.
    I'm sorry that your Grandfather is having to go through this, I how when it happens it is as peaceful as it can be.

    My grandmother has dementia and barely knows what's going on around her. She's forgetting how to swallow. She's depressed as she used to be incredibly vivacious, adventurous, attractive. She is absolutely suffering unnecessarily. It cots £25,000 per month to look after her in that condition (because some agencies have no sense of righty and wrong). The same fate is in store for her sister, and likely my mother and myself. I will not be putting myself and my family through a similar experience.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    [/b]
    I read a story about a lady with ALS who was denied euthanasia. Do you know what she did? She wheeled herself off the edge of a cliff with the only finger that she had control of.
    Well, you seem to think the solution is to push her off the cliff ourselves.

    Surely the role of society and the family is to make her not want to wheel herself off the edge of the cliff in the first place, rather than taking the control and zipping her off at rampant apace under the guise of "dignity"


    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Pain relief? really? You think that all this man needed was pain relief?
    Attachment 518025
    No, I believe that people should be looked after emotionally, mentally & physically (and indeed, I have done so for the dying and the now dead). Your argument is that the one thing "this man needs" is to be slaughtered.

    The message you send to people with these crippling diseases is that their life has no value, no hope of happiness, no chance of joy, so it's better just to give into your depression and end it all now. You use words like "compassion" and "dignity" as a masquerade for the violence you would do to the most needy in our society. Killing off the helpless is neither compassionate nor dignified.


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    (Original post by Supersaps)
    Well, you seem to think the solution is to push her off the cliff ourselves.
    No? I think the solution is to give these people the right to die in dignity if they want to. How many more people have to die so gruesomely before we get some intervention?

    Surely the role of society and the family is to make her not want to wheel herself off the edge of the cliff in the first place, rather than taking the control and zipping her off at rampant apace under the guise of "dignity"
    I don't think she actually wanted to wheel herself off a cliff, but she felt like she had no choice. That in itself is heartbreaking. This could have been handled in a much more sinister manner, but she was denied that.

    What do you think could have been done to prevent her feeling the way she was?

    No, I believe that people should be looked after emotionally, mentally & physically (and indeed, I have done so for the dying and the now dead). Your argument is that the one thing "this man needs" is to be slaughtered.
    No, I am just pointing out that you are very naive in your thinking. That man and many others like him will not benefit much from poxy pain relief. He was actually being looked after by his loved ones in all the ways you have listed, that was his wife in the picture with him. My argument is that people like him should not be forced to continue a life of misery. It's just not fair.

    The message you send to people with these crippling diseases is that their life has no value, no hope of happiness, no chance of joy, so it's better just to give into your depression and end it all now. You use words like "compassion" and "dignity" as a masquerade for the violence you would do to the most needy in our society. Killing off the helpless is neither compassionate nor dignified.


    SS
    Your entire post is pretty much based on assumptions and nothing I have actually said.
    All I am suggesting is that these people are given the choice. It shouldn't be agonising for them, it shouldn't be a long journey to Switzerland. These people should have the right to end their suffering. Of course there are people, perhaps religious people who would rather wait until they pass from natural causes. I am not against that, I support that. Being accepting of euthanasia does not mean that I am not accepting of choosing to live. I have no idea what those people are feeling nor can I or anyone else tell them how they should feel.

    If you research, you will see that a lot of people choose euthanasia because they want to die in a dignified way. Their words, not mine. You are in no position to say what is dignified and what is not, you haven't lived it. Those people have.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    But wouldn't God's hand be behind the bureaucrat's box ticking?
    no
    • TSR Group Staff
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    TSR Group Staff
    I like where this is going! Where does dignity come into things then? The wish that you don't have to go out miserably?
 
 
 
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