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    Just out of curiosity...is the general consensus that gender discrimination doesn't exist? If it does exist, what types of sexism/gender discrimination or misogyny exist?

    And if you believe that sexism doesn't exist, do you believe in other social phenomena like racism, homophobia or ableism?

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Why do feminists keep telling lie after lie. Male doctors get paid more than female doctors [just because of their gender apparently] - this is not true at all. Even if the statistics did show that on average, make doctors get paid more than female doctors (I don't know) it would not be from discrimination, it would probably be due to all the reasons that other people have posted above.
    (Original post by ComputerMaths97)
    Exactly, which is why female doctors don't get paid less than male doctors doing the same hours, at the same level, bringing in the same revenue, with the same experience and qualifications.
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    (Original post by Assan)
    Just out of curiosity...is the general consensus that gender discrimination doesn't exist? If it does exist, what types of sexism/gender discrimination or misogyny exist?

    And if you believe that sexism doesn't exist, do you believe in other social phenomena like racism, homophobia or ableism?
    I personally think that people exaggerate the amount of sexism etc there is.

    I would agree that there is some sexism about, but I think it has advantages AND disadvantages for BOTH sexes, and I also don't think it's unhealthy.

    Of course there is purely negative and hate filled sexism, but that is a tiny minority of people, and it targetted towards both sexes. Not just one of the two genders gets sexist-based hate.

    I would actually agree that women get the "short end of the stick" as in they probably are more often the victims than men to sexism. However I think it's absurd to think it's some sort of "all men vs all girls" kind of crap. Most guys have never said/done anything harmfully sexist in their lives.

    I remember hearing girls call out "sexism" all the time, and it was always the same few girls. And it was always for silly little things like a guy saying "boys tend to be stronger", which is clearly not untrue or harmful. And I think that from a young age, girls are easily manipulated into believing the whole "you're oppressed and that's the only reason you have ever failed" because everyone loves an excuse that helps them take no responsibility.

    The "wage gap" is so evidently misleading statistics, but if you have a role model that mentions it, people tend to automatically believe it. And it all builds up, creating a story of issues.

    I think homophobia is still an issue in some countries, as is racism. But modern countries like the UK, it honestly is not a real issue as in no government intervention is needed for it to get to pure equality there.

    Ableism is clearly a thing, as there's lots of reasons to treat someone differently due to their skills. Even telling a singer they're the best and treating them like a celebrity is essentially ableism. I don't see how that's a problem though.

    I think sexism is overexaggerated because it's so easy to find correlations and blame them on sexism. There are rediculous correlations out there, but they do not mean causation and the majority of feminists (who drive this whole sexism agenda) seem to not know the difference between correlation and causation.

    I just think it's made out to be a much bigger issue than it is, by multiple well known marketing techniques. I just get annoyed when people make profit out of have silly opinions.
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    (Original post by Assan)
    Just out of curiosity...is the general consensus that gender discrimination doesn't exist? If it does exist, what types of sexism/gender discrimination or misogyny exist?

    And if you believe that sexism doesn't exist, do you believe in other social phenomena like racism, homophobia or ableism?
    Yes, homophobia, racism and sexism all do exist. However it is not what people make it out to be. I just do not believe that a company would pay a woman less just because she is a woman - why would anyone do that? What would the company gain out of it, because if the woman reported it then it would get investigated so it is risky for the company/employer to do it.
    If anything it's males that are discriminated against. Don't get grants for some uni courses as girls do (blatantly sexist), get higher prison sentences for same crimes, lose custody over kids in most cases even if there really isn't a legit reason (I know this for a fact), woman calls for police saying that there partner has been violent gets their partner removed or even arrested - even if there is no evidence of any violence. If a man calls police saying that their partner has been violent, in many cases he gets removed from the house or even arrested.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Why do feminists keep telling lie after lie. Male doctors get paid more than female doctors [just because of their gender apparently] - this is not true at all. Even if the statistics did show that on average, make doctors get paid more than female doctors (I don't know) it would not be from discrimination, it would probably be due to all the reasons that other people have posted above.
    Did I that they were paid differently? No, I was using it as an example stating that they should be paid the same (obviously as long as they were in the same field, for the same amount of time and with the same training and experiences). I was making no remark on why the pay was different, but women are discriminated against within the health industry. If you read the new contract for doctors there is a line that explicitly states "this may disadvantage women" so I am not lying, it is there in the new contracts.
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    (Original post by Salads1)
    Again, it isn't as simple as that. If you're a surgeon working in a private hospital you'd get (essentially) a cut of their total profits, if your hospital generated more then you'd get more, if it generated less you'd get less, which could cause discrepencies in the wages of people in a certain field and make it look as if one gender, or minority or whatever is being discriminated against which is not necessarily the case. Furthermore, wages can be negotiated during interviews, if men, in general, are more assertive they could win themselves a higher salary despite having the same qualifications as their female counterparts. I'm not saying this as something to justify discriminating against women, I myself am at a disadvantage because of it, since I am the polar opposite of assertive but just because it doesn't work in my favor does not mean it is not true.

    Considering these, as well as many things I probably fail to mention, people should not be saying "equal work = equal pay" but rather "equal pay for the same given circumstances, regardless of gender, age, ethnicity, political leaning etc."

    ; Oh just something I remembered related to interviews and how employers view employees - women are far more likely to quit or leave early due to pregnancies, employers don't like that because they lose money and have their bussinesses fail and they're forced to lay more people off as a result of it, so there is that to consider - in some contracts, like for instance with some models, they aren't allowed to have children within a certain period of time.

    I'm not stating my personal opinion on any of these things but rather reality the way I know and see it.
    Yeah I do understand that different circumstances will lead to differences in pay, and I agree that within the individual establishments there will be fluctuations in pay.
    I completely agree with your statement of "equal pay for the same given circumstances, regardless of gender, age, ethnicity, political leaning etc." That would be a much clearer wording of what I was trying to say.
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    (Original post by Emily May)
    If you read the new contract for doctors there is a line that explicitly states "this may disadvantage women" so I am not lying, it is there in the new contracts.
    It may disadvantage women, but it is certainly not discrimination. Are you really that stupid? If women want to take time out to have kids, that is their choice, they can't expect to have kids, take time out and start earning the same as someone who has been working in the time that they have been out.
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    (Original post by ComputerMaths97)
    This has been on my mind for a while, so I'm just going to put my opinion and look forward to debating with others on the topic

    I'm referring to when those who are paid less, for what they call "Equal work", claim that they should be paid more so everyone doing the same job has the same pay. For example (http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/31/news...pay/index.html) In the US was posted today. Women footballers are claiming that because the total average wage of a female footballer is less than the total average wage of a male footballer, it must be due to their sex nothing else? Do people really not understand supply and demand.

    Of course it's much more complicated than supply demand ideologies, but the fact it's more complicated only backs up my next point even further. Working as hard as someone else does not mean you achieve the same, earn the same for those above you, accomplish the same etc etc. All it means is that you tried as hard. Why on earth should that be the sole quality considered when determining pay? Using the example stated, more people watch male football. Therefore higher revenue, therefore higher pay. Simple. This is because, males tend to be considered better at football as a whole. Money is invested into opportunity, and in football opportunity is correlated with talent. Better players win more games and get more viewers = higher revenue. So how can you persuade this talent to join you? Pay them MORE. Anyone that thinks it's because of their gender hasn't ever studied economics in any way whatsoever.

    And it happens all around us. "Oh why are sports stars earning more than doctors". There is no 1 person paying everyone's wages, so they cannot be compared. Obviously it would be ideal if those more useful to society were payed more (increases incentive to do more for society for young people in education) but that's simply not how an economy can function. And it would mean a lot of people don't get to do the jobs they dream of.

    Can someone explain where I'm going wrong? There's so much more to a salary than one of your genetic characterists -_-

    i know rite.

    Clearly those female footballers cant even maths
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    (Original post by Emily May)
    I was making no remark on why the pay was different, but women are discriminated against within the health industry.
    Stop lying. Women are not discriminated against. Why would they be? Why would someone think, 'this person is a woman so I can get away with paying her less' - no one thinks like that.
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    (Original post by Assan)
    I'd love to.

    1- The US Women's Football team has won 4 Olympic medals and 3 world titles. They are the current holders of the world title, meaning that they are the best in the world.
    2- The men's team have won nothing.
    3- The men's team lost a million dollars this past year. The women's team MADE 20 million. To be fair, it was a championship year fro the women, not the men. But all you need to know is that the woman's team is solvent...and winning.
    4 - Last year, the women's games were MORE watched than the men's in 2012.

    I'm not entirely convinced by the "equality means bringing in equal revenue" schtick. BUT if you want to go with that - the women's team is asking for too little.

    Source: I prefer th BBC, but sometimes I watch CNN, too.

    The US Women's national football team lost 8-2 to male u-17s... enough said.

    The reason the male national team haven't won anyting is because they're in a far difficult league. They're playing the likes of Germany, Brazil, France, Italy, etc... If the women were playing these teams, they would get thumped like Villa are getting thumped by Chelsea right now.


    Oh, forgot to mention that the male version of football is far more lucrative and demanding then that of women... so obviously they'll get paid more.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Stop lying. Women are not discriminated against. Why would they be? Why would someone think, 'this person is a woman so I can get away with paying her less' - no one thinks like that.
    Mate you're falling into a feminists trap.

    They start off with a ridiculous claim, however making it obscure, so that they can backtrack and make you seem like the bad guy. 99% of the population knows you're right, don't let one internet poster make you think otherwise
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    (Original post by Dodgypirate)
    The US Women's national football team lost 8-2 to male u-17s... enough said.

    The reason the male national team haven't won anything is because they're in a far difficult league. They're playing the likes of Germany, Brazil, France, Italy, etc... If the women were playing these teams, they would get thumped like Villa are getting thumped by Chelsea right now.


    Oh, forgot to mention that the male version of football is far more lucrative and demanding then that of women... so obviously they'll get paid more.
    So.... Women and men aren't equal... Women play women and men play men... Women beat women but men fail against the men...and your response is that if the women played men they would lose?

    You're also insinuating that the professional female athletes of other countries aren't as athletic, relative to their femininity, as the male football players are relative to their peers.

    And to dismiss all the evidence I've listed in this thread - the multiple championship wins, the higher advertising rates, which reflects the higher viewership... While adding no actual evidence to the question at hand...

    You're just absurd now.

    Like to like - the men do not demonstrate the same degree of competence against their peers as the women's team in this instance, and yet you insist on making excuses to negate the high performance of the women's team.

    This is actually the best evidence of the sexism and misogyny you try so desperately to deny.
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    (Original post by Assan)
    So.... Women and men aren't equal... Women play women and men play men... Women beat women but men fail against the men...and your response is that if the women played men they would lose?

    You're also insinuating that the professional female athletes of other countries aren't as athletic, relative to their femininity, as the male football players are relative to their peers.

    And to dismiss all the evidence I've listed in this thread - the multiple championship wins, the higher advertising rates, which reflects the higher viewership... While adding no actual evidence to the question at hand...

    You're just absurd now.

    Like to like - the men do not demonstrate the same degree of competence against their peers as the women's team in this instance, and yet you insist on making excuses to negate the high performance of the women's team.

    This is actually the best evidence of the sexism and misogyny you try so desperately to deny.
    All you need to know is, women's football is less competitive, lower quality football which therefore makes it less entertaining. Hence less people watch it, so the players get paid less - same reason why championship players get paid less than premier league players.
    We wouldn't say that championship players are being discriminated against would we. Stop being silly and using statistics when you clearly don't understand statistics at all.
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    Misandry is a much bigger issue than mysoginy these days
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    (Original post by Anonymous;[url="tel:63843319")
    63843319[/url]]All you need to know is, women's football is less competitive, lower quality football which therefore makes it less entertaining. Hence less people watch it, so the players get paid less - same reason why championship players get paid less than premier league players.
    We wouldn't say that championship players are being discriminated against would we. Stop being silly and using statistics when you clearly don't understand statistics at all.

    And you've offered nothing but ad hominem attacks and wild speculation - much less any statistics or reasoned analysis of them.

    Well done, "Anonymous."
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    The question in the title is not supported by your OP as the types of work listed there are not equal.
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    (Original post by Assan)
    And you've offered nothing but ad hominem attacks and wild speculation - much less any statistics or reasoned analysis of them.

    Well done, "Anonymous."
    You can't counter what I've said? It's true you know, that's why
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    (Original post by Assan)
    Just out of curiosity...is the general consensus that gender discrimination doesn't exist? If it does exist, what types of sexism/gender discrimination or misogyny exist?

    And if you believe that sexism doesn't exist, do you believe in other social phenomena like racism, homophobia or ableism?
    In employment, I think these things do not exist. The market strongly selects against discrimination on grounds of things other than productivity, which is strong evidence that disparities in pay reflect real differences in productivity.

    Out of interest, do you believe that there is a homosexual income gap? Maybe there is, but I've never heard of that before.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    In employment, I think these things do not exist. The market strongly selects against discrimination on grounds of things other than productivity, which is strong evidence that disparities in pay reflect real differences in productivity.

    Out of interest, do you believe that there is a homosexual income gap? Maybe there is, but I've never heard of that before.
    No - but to my knowledge, two women in a relationship with each other typically have a lower household income than two men living together - for reasons unrelated to their sexual orientation of course. It would be interesting to see whether two out lesbians who have no interest in adopting also report lower wages, as the typical reasons for women's reduced "productivity" are pregnancy and child care.

    I put productivity in quotes because childbearing and rearing, as well as other forms of unpaid labour, are both productive and labour intensive, yet the market doesn't reward them as such.
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    (Original post by Assan)
    No - but to my knowledge, two women in a relationship with each other typically have a lower household income than two men living together - for reasons unrelated to their sexual orientation of course.
    Absence of a gay pay gap is strong evidence that productivity rather than social approval determines salary.

    It would be interesting to see whether two out lesbians who have no interest in adopting also report lower wages, as the typical reasons for women's reduced "productivity" are pregnancy and child care.

    I put productivity in quotes because childbearing and rearing, as well as other forms of unpaid labour, are both productive and labour intensive, yet the market doesn't reward them as such.
    This is like saying that building a model railway or doing the garden is unrewarded labour; people have children for own benefit, not to sell them on.
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    (Original post by Observatory;[url="tel:63886547")
    63886547[/url]]Absence of a gay pay gap is strong evidence that productivity rather than social approval determines salary.
    .
    Unless, of course, you're contending that, outside of pregnancy and child-rearing, women are simply less productive than men.

    In which case, that seems, prima facie, an indefensible position.
 
 
 
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