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Eu: In or out?

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  • View Poll Results: Should be stay a member or leave?
    Stay
    58.06%
    Leave
    41.94%

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    How long does it take to negotiate and sign a multilateral trade deal compared to a bilateral one? How does protectionist trade policy help you look outwards? I see you have once again been halted by that bane of your existence, the yes/no question; Corn Laws, yes or no?

    There is also this wonderful thing that is called "arguing from the perspective of others." I don't really care much about the NHS being kept running as it is, it's not a very good system, that does not mean that I cannot argue for the benefit of those that do believe it is the best thing since sliced bread that its future should be a domestic decision. I don't particularly care about a great deal about some of the worker protections that we have due to the EU, that does not mean I cannot argue that these will stick with us even if we leave because getting rid any time in the near future would be political suicide, just like directly abolishing the NHS.

    Is the In campaign now claiming that leaving the EU will have us closing borders? We only have one open border and that is the border with RoI, other than that we have a controlled border.
    If you don't care about the NHS or workers rights then don't use them to back up your arguments like you suddenly do.

    I wonder why you don't care about them though, why do you oppose having a certain guaranteed amount of paid holiday, maternity and paternity rights? On having a minimum standard of working conditions?

    That's absurd.
    Especially considering you're a student who doesn't actually have a job. Maybe when you do have one, you'll appreciate such things.

    Your logic is appalling and your arguments fake. It's one thing not to care, but don't pretend you do and make fake arguments about how staying in will be better for out NHS.
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    (Original post by hazzer1998)
    Not all , recently 250 businesses want out

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-35901811
    Ok, saying virtually all was misleading on my part. Most do though, in fact an overwhelming majority.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...tay-in-the-eu/

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-eu-polls-find
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    A lot of people who are "Stay" only have one reason - "I will have to spend 20 minutes organising my visit to an EU country"
    Not saying all, however a vast amount have these views
    A lot of people who are "Out" only have one reason- "people will have to spend 20 minutes organising their visit to the UK"
    Not saying all, however a vast amount have these views
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    If you don't care about the NHS or workers rights then don't use them to back up your arguments like you suddenly do.

    .
    Classic dog whistle eurosceptic tactics.


    'Well, I'm personally relaxed about immigration to this country, a lot of people though....'





    Bloody populists. George Galloway, Boris and Farage alone are enough to make me vote IN
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    A lot of people who are "Stay" only have one reason - "I will have to spend 20 minutes organising my visit to an EU country" Not saying all, however a vast amount have these views

    Im OUT, but each to their own
    You see you TRIED to get reps - failed.

    In reply to your dumb reply, i dont think i have EVER heard someone use that as a argument to stay in? Try again
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    If you don't care about the NHS or workers rights then don't use them to back up your arguments like you suddenly do.

    I wonder why you don't care about them though, why do you oppose having a certain guaranteed amount of paid holiday, maternity and paternity rights? On having a minimum standard of working conditions?

    That's absurd.
    Especially considering you're a student who doesn't actually have a job. Maybe when you do have one, you'll appreciate such things.

    Your logic is appalling and your arguments fake. It's one thing not to care, but don't pretend you do and make fake arguments about how staying in will be better for out NHS.
    Being a student means I haven't got a job and haven't had a job?

    And not agreeing with a perspective in no means one cannot put forwards arguments for those who do hold it?

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    So now the Out campaign are saying that if it wasn't for the eu there would be no austerity despite the fact that they voted enthusiastically and justified such cuts in principle.

    The out campaign are sickeningly fake.
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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    You see you TRIED to get reps - failed.

    In reply to your dumb reply, i dont think i have EVER heard someone use that as a argument to stay in? Try again
    lol reps

    Dumb reply? It was a mirror of your post but with a vote stay opinion lmfao - It has been trotted out dozens of times. Guy gets flustered and angry at a post mimmicking his original post to highlight the stupidity.

    You couldnt make this stuff up
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    Do the hokey cokey and turn around.

    That's not an option?

    In.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    So now the Out campaign are saying that if it wasn't for the eu there would be no austerity despite the fact that they voted enthusiastically and justified such cuts in principle.

    The out campaign are sickeningly fake.
    Ah, the joys of hyperbole, declaring a statement of one minor member of a campaign to be the official position.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Ah, the joys of hyperbole, declaring a statement of one minor member of a campaign to be the official position.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Minor member? He's one of the leading members.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Minor member? He's one of the leading members.
    Fair enough, I didn't know he was on the campaigning committee. Still, when was the last time somebody asked you to sack them great guy too, position on Europe aside, his researchers are good fun too.

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    Interesting that despite the OPs suggestion that younger voters are more likely to vote "in" leave is currently just winning the poll. I wonder whether that is to do with TSr demographics being slightly different to average young people
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    In.


    What it comes down to is two competing Visions of Britain.

    A more social democrat style Britain like in Europe

    Or a more Free Trader style Britain like in the U.S.

    Personally I think. And think that the majority of the British feel the European model represents Britain than the U.S. One, which is why they're trying to sell this idea that they're going to save the NHS when before they've advocated selling it off.
    Firstly, nobody is presenting those two competing visions but yourself. Whether we stay in or out of the EU has no necessary bearing on whether we become more or less socially democratic. Norway is the most socially democratic country in Europe and it isn't in the EU.

    Secondly, leaving the EU will not ensure or make it more likely that we'd be more like the US: that is not something anyone can predict, though personally I'm more in favour of free markets. We have been in the EEC/EU for over 40 years and in that period we have become less socially democratic. In fact, euroscepticism was originally a social democratic position. Old Labour politicians (Gaitskell, Castle, Benn, Foot, Shore etc) believed that the EEC was a threat to socialism because it was hostile to nationalisation, national subsidies and was too friendly to big business. Big business is almost entirely in favour of the EU. I simply don't know where or how you have formed the basis of your argument, it is not based on any reading of history.

    The only thing we know will happen if we leave the EU is that parliamentary sovereignty will be restored and that British courts will not have to answer to the ECJ. Anything else is highly negotiable and contestable.
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    (Original post by adam9317)
    Would it tend to be that most people voting leave would be UKIP supporters, or at least right wingers?
    I wouldn't say that - I'm in favour of leave, and a significant number of left-wingers are on the 'leave' side as well
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    >wanting to be part of the only failing trade bloc
    >wanting to have no control over our borders
    >wanting Brussels and Strasbourg to be sovereign over our own parliament

    Only arguments the Remain side use are 'muh jobs, muh economy'. Do they only care about money?

    True, it will be tough for a few years after the 2 year leaving period, but after that things will pick up. AND be better than before.
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    (Original post by TheIr0nDuke)
    >wanting to be part of the only failing trade bloc
    >wanting to have no control over our borders
    >wanting Brussels and Strasbourg to be sovereign over our own parliament

    Only arguments the Remain side use are 'muh jobs, muh economy'. Do they only care about money?

    True, it will be tough for a few years after the 2 year leaving period, but after that things will pick up. AND be better than before.
    Strasbourg has nothing to do with the eu. The Strasbourg court is part of the Council of Europe, a separate body which has nothing to do with the eu.

    Yet like so many you've lumped them together.

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    (Original post by 雷尼克)
    do you really trust tax-avoiding dodgy dave to make laws rather than some experienced politicians in Brussels? lmao
    So you'd rather be governed by a bloated, incompetent, unnecessary political body??

    Credible source that he's actually dodged tax.

    >experienced
    If they were experienced why is the EU in the terrible shape that it is?

    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Strasbourg has nothing to do with the eu. The Strasbourg court is part of the Council of Europe, a separate body which has nothing to do with the eu.

    Yet like so many you've lumped them together.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    You mean the court of law that presides over our own courts?

    It is called the 'European Court of Human Rights'. Of course it's connected to the EU.
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    (Original post by TheIr0nDuke)
    So you'd rather be governed by a bloated, incompetent, unnecessary political body??

    Credible source that he's actually dodged tax.

    >experienced
    If they were experienced why is the EU in the terrible shape that it is?



    You mean the court of law that presides over our own courts?

    It is called the 'European Court of Human Rights'. Of course it's connected to the EU.
    No, no, no and no one more time.
    The European Court of human rights has NOTHING to do with the EU. The EU is not a human rights body.
    You are conflating and confusing two SEPARATE European organisations.

    Let me make this clear. The European Union is a social and economic body. We joined in 1973. It's court is the European Court of Justice and is situated in Luxembourg.


    The European Court of Human Rights is in Strausbourg. It is the court of a completely separate body, the Council of Europe and brought about by the 1951 European Convention on Human Rights.

    The two are not connected. Different courts for different organisations.


    They are separate organsiations. The court of justice is the court of the eu. The European court of human rights is the court of the council of Europe. The EU and Council of Europe are separate organisations.



    Stop lumping separate European organisations together.
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    (Original post by 雷尼克)
    do you really trust tax-avoiding dodgy dave to make laws rather than some experienced politicians in Brussels? lmao
    You can GET RID OF DAVID CAMERON - You cannot get rid of these "Experienced politicans in brussels"

    THAT IS THE POINT ffs
 
 
 
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