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National Union of Students elects Malia Bouattia as president. watch

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    The NUS needs to lose its formal association with universities. If it were an "opt-in" organisation that had to raise funds directly from member subscriptions, practically no one would join.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    I've come across a black Palestinian. He would be extremely offended at a white person telling him that he is not entitled to be a "black Arab" because this white man, in his self-aggrandizing arrogance, has never seen a black Arab/berber before.
    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Yes, Moslem. That is what I said, but it isn't relevant in this context. Her superstitious beliefs are not under discussion.

    I have never come across a black Berber or Arab, which, as far as I am aware are not normally described as black races.

    If I am wrong perhaps you can furnish me with the names of a few black Arabs or Berbers, together with a link to a picture.
    (Original post by G8D)
    I don't know about Berbers but by definition there are no black Arabs...

    Also the headline is/was 'First black Muslim woman NUS president' and in the article it is stated:



    An earlier version of the article also tells us that in October 2014 she was the NUS black student officer.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudanese_Arabs

    &

    "Arab identity is based on one or more of genealogical, linguistic or cultural grounds,[29] although with competing identities often taking a more prominent role,[30] based on considerations including regional, national, clan, kin, sect, and tribe affiliations and relationships"
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    No. I was suggesting that there was error both in the argument frequently put forward by the Israelis that anti-Zionism equals anti-semitism and also in the argument often put forward on the left that they are never being anti-semitic when being anti-Zionist.

    Consideration of the position of special groups within the wider debate, like the ideology of Jews living outside Israel, is in my experience often used by the Israelis and their supporters on the right to blow confusion into the issue. Not all Jews internationally support all Israeli government policies, but the Likud would like to equate that with "self-hating" as if Jews must by definition be Zionists, which is kind of racist in itself, to take it to the extreme.
    It's not just Likud. Most Israeli parties (excluding the Arab parties, the Communists, and possibly Meretz) promote a similar kind of essentialism equating Zionism/Israel to Jewish people as a group. The main difference is that the more right-wing ones link it to more right-wing policies regarding settlements, peace negotiations, etc.
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    Significant minority populations of Afro-Arabs can also be found in other parts of the Arab world,[1][2] principally in North Africa's Egypt and Morocco due to their proximity to the Afro-Arab heartland, as well as West Asia's Yemen andSaudi Arabia which are separated from Africa only by the narrow Bab-el-Mandeb (Mandeb Strait) in the Red Sea.
    In Yemen and Saudi Arabia, Afro-Arabs arose due to historical events, including the Arab slave trade, which brought Sub-Saharan Africans into the Arabian Peninsula. In Yemen especially, apart from the large minority population officially classified as Afro-Arab, recent genetic findings have indicated that the remainder of that country's Arab population (which is deemed not to be Afro-Arab) is nevertheless also admixed with Sub-Saharan African ancestry to a lesser, although still significant, degree.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Initially, I heard about them cheering (or is it jazz-handing now?) not supporting Holocaust Memorial Day, but tbh, I think in this case, they aren't being outrageously idiotic. I listened to the speech, and it was more focussed on how other atrocities should not be ignored, such as the Rwandan genocide, and that there should be a Genocide Memorial Day to remember all genocides. Tbh I agree with this.
    waving arms around could easily trigger sensitive delegates. instead the committee have introduced a special arm gesture to indicate lack of support for Shoah Memorial Day.

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    (Original post by High Stakes)
    Significant minority populations of Afro-Arabs can also be found in other parts of the Arab world,[1][2] principally in North Africa's Egypt and Morocco due to their proximity to the Afro-Arab heartland, as well as West Asia's Yemen andSaudi Arabia which are separated from Africa only by the narrow Bab-el-Mandeb (Mandeb Strait) in the Red Sea.
    In Yemen and Saudi Arabia, Afro-Arabs arose due to historical events, including the Arab slave trade, which brought Sub-Saharan Africans into the Arabian Peninsula. In Yemen especially, apart from the large minority population officially classified as Afro-Arab, recent genetic findings have indicated that the remainder of that country's Arab population (which is deemed not to be Afro-Arab) is nevertheless also admixed with Sub-Saharan African ancestry to a lesser, although still significant, degree.
    This is a manifestation of Stockholm Syndrome; it is like if the British Empire never fell, and after a few hundred years Afro-Carribean slaves started asserting they were British.

    However, the silliness of Arab nationalism aside, it clearly doesn't apply here as Bouattia is a white North African elite who describes herself as black to win support with the far left crowd that makes up the active NUS membership. The Romans wouldn't have considered her any different to an Italian (and indeed no one would question her if she said she was Italian).
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    (Original post by High Stakes)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudanese_Arabs

    &

    Arab identity is based on one or more of
    I'm not sure what your point is. I have already explained that I haven't been talking about so-called "identity", which does not reflect the real world. I could identify as a teapot but it wouldn't make me one.

    Those Sudanese Arabs are just Arabs. They themselves are not black. The article you linked demonstrates the fact that they gain their genetic make-up from mainly Eurasian sources (i.e. they are descended from Arab migrants from Arabia), not African ones.
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    (Original post by the bear)
    waving arms around could easily trigger sensitive delegates. instead the committee have introduced a special arm gesture to indicate lack of support for Shoah Memorial Day.
    PRSOM
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    The key thing in this debate is, does disliking Zionism = anti-semitism?
    According to the President of Birmingham J-Soc, one of those who submitted an open letter to Bouattia on this, the answer is yes, apparently. Makes you wonder what the point of the letter was.
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    At least she gives the lie (as demonstrated by the picture linked) to claims that Moslem women have to cover their hair or live under a blanket in order to follow their faith.
    • Political Ambassador
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    Political Ambassador
    I find the best bit about them refusing to denounce ISIS because that would be islamaphobic is that these are the very same sorts of people who claim that people who join ISIS are not Muslims.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    I'm not sure what your point is. I have already explained that I haven't been talking about so-called "identity", which does not reflect the real world. I could identify as a teapot but it wouldn't make me one.

    Those Sudanese Arabs are just Arabs. They themselves are not black. The article you linked demonstrates the fact that they gain their genetic make-up from mainly Eurasian sources (i.e. they are descended from Arab migrants from Arabia), not African ones.
    Do you believe in the real world everyone has to have their ancestry genetically analysed before they can identify with one particular group?

    Do you believe that there's a fixed, correct concoction/combination of genetics that make a person who they are?

    Are you able to talk on behalf of the real world? So, you believe that identifying with a national identity is on the same level as identifying with a teapot? As in, in the real world people will ridicule you in both cases? Or will it only be in the same of the teapot.

    So what do you believe constitutes being "black"?

    Do you think that if you had a black-skinned Arab Sudanese and you asked ordinary people what their ethnicity was, that they would say Arab before black?
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Because there's a difference. Terrorism is deliberate attacks on civilians with the intent of causing terror among the civilian population. Armed resistance is any form of resistance involving weapons.
    So you are saying that knifing random Jewish passers by on the street ISN'T a "deliberate attack on civilians with the intent of causing terror among the civilian population"?

    You posit a distinction without a difference.
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    (Original post by JezWeCan!)
    So you are saying that knifing random Jewish passers by on the street ISN'T a "deliberate attack on civilians with the intent of causing terror among the civilian population"?

    You posit a distinction without a difference.
    Did she specifically say she supported knifing random Jewish passers by on the street as part of armed resistance, or are you just making a strawman inference?
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Tbh, I do wonder which ideology Hitler would join if he were alive today; far-right or far-left?
    Seriously?
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Did she specifically say she supported knifing random Jewish passers by on the street as part of armed resistance, or are you just making a strawman inference?
    I made an inference that her support of the "Intifada" meant that she supported the "Intifada of the Individuals."

    And I made that inference explicit by asking "what else could it mean?"

    A man isn't made of straw if he actually exists, is made of flesh and blood. And stabs random Jews to death...
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    The NUS needs to lose its formal association with universities. If it were an "opt-in" organisation that had to raise funds directly from member subscriptions, practically no one would join.
    Absolutely. QFT.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Tbh, I do wonder which ideology Hitler would join if he were alive today; far-right or far-left?
    He didn't much care for political allies, but I think he would be happy to receive homage from the Islamists, after all, his buddy Eichmann was instrumental in setting up widespread anti - Semitism in the Arab world, via the good offices of the Grand Mufti.
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    (Original post by jamestg)
    Seriously?
    Yeah seriously.

    The Far Left is anti semitic, anti democratic, and attempts to destroy free speech.

    Fascist in other words.
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    (Original post by High Stakes)
    Do you believe in the real world everyone has to have their ancestry genetically analysed before they can identify with one particular group?
    Read my words: I am not concerned with identity, which has no basis outside the mind of the identifier.

    I have still not been shown a picture of a black Arab or Berber.
 
 
 
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