Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    20
    (Original post by JamesN88)
    In reality it doesn't work as it goes against human nature, without motivation people don't do any more than the bare minimum and everything stagnates.
    You are ignoring the fanaticism that ideologies bring. Perhaps communism is weaker than fascism in this regard, but similar to religion, which is very good at maintaining order and control, and motivation.
    Offline

    20
    (Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
    That's sort of true, but not exactly. Everyone is not exactly the same, so distributing resources exactly equally isn't fair in that it simply doesn't make sense. There is the phrase, "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need." What matters isn't that every person receives exactly the same amount of everything, it's that each person has the opportunity to receive what they need. This is still an equal distribution of wealth.
    Still not fair. People who work hard subsidise those who don't.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    Communism was the plague of the 20th century.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Still not fair. People who work hard subsidise those who don't.
    I for one would rather work hard and perhaps subsidise others than work hard for merely my own benefit and know people are starving on the streets. That is an unfairness that I can accept.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    unfairly dismissed without consideration by most people
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    You are ignoring the fanaticism that ideologies bring. Perhaps communism is weaker than fascism in this regard, but similar to religion, which is very good at maintaining order and control, and motivation.
    It depends if you've had the ideology forced upon you or not.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    No true scotsman
    The world is full of people who claim to be things, but are not those things.
    Offline

    20
    (Original post by picklescamp)
    unfairly dismissed without consideration by most people
    So is fascism - what is your opinion regarding that?
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by lolakirk)
    'Communism' hasn't killed anybody, communists have. The ideology itself isn't murderous, Nazism is.
    The "dictatorship of the proletariat" sounds very bloodless indeed.
    Offline

    20
    (Original post by Josb)
    The "dictatorship of the proletariat" sounds very bloodless indeed.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    So is fascism - what is your opinion regarding that?
    can't say I've researched it enough to have a strong opinion. I feel like we're educated to have visceral reactions against things without understanding why, and until I've educated myself on the issue I'm not confident in my ability to have a view towards it
    Offline

    20
    (Original post by picklescamp)
    can't say I've researched it enough to have a strong opinion. I feel like we're educated to have visceral reactions against things without understanding why, and until I've educated myself on the issue I'm not confident in my ability to have a view towards it
    Excellent response, its good to have an open mind.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    So is fascism - what is your opinion regarding that?
    Strange as it may sound, I find the fact that fascism is dismissed without any consideration by most people to be unfortunate. People should learn more about a wide range of ideologies so that they can make a better informed decision about which to follow and so that they can more easily recognise the less savoury ones.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hydeman)
    I take back my previous comment. You're beyond hope.
    The Arab spring resulted partly from the mass unemployment, poverty and debt in Arab countries such as Libya, Tunisia and Syria that resulted from the global recession of 2008.

    Jobless youths were told by extremists to blame everything on their leaders such as Gaddafi whose Arab socialist system ironically was the best in the Middle East and Africa. Instead Al Queda leaders told the youths that their poverty was because of their leaders and not the bankers in Europe and America who in 2008 wrecked the economy and caused the worst economic depression in history.

    The youths would be encouraged to rebel force out their leaders and leave behind a power vacuum that would allow the growth of extremism and eventually ISIS in countries affected by the Arab spring.
    Offline

    20
    (Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
    Strange as it may sound, I find the fact that fascism is dismissed without any consideration by most people to be unfortunate. People should learn more about a wide range of ideologies so that they can make a better informed decision about which to follow and so that they can more easily recognise the less savoury ones.
    Agreed

    Many people don't realise how conditioned they have been to thoughtlessly embrace the ideology capitalist-democracy ideology. Too many arguments, for example, revolve around what is more 'democratic', as if that is the end goal of politics, to be as democratic as possible. Too many revolve around what will increase GDP, regardless of whether or not that improves human welfare overall, and with no regard for the wealth of future generations.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Josb)
    The "dictatorship of the proletariat" sounds very bloodless indeed.
    The problem with Pol Potism and the Khmer Rouge is that it was a bizarre mixture of communism but also xenophobia and an historic obsession to recreate the glory days of the ancient Khmer empire. To do that the country had to be rid of any foreign influences, even wearing glasses was considered intellectual and such people were thought to be polluted with foreign influences and thus murdered. To that extent the Khmer Rouge was more like nazism in trying to create an ethnically pure Cambodia.

    The communism side of things came from the old days of French Indochina and the Viet Minh. They created the anti-French Indochinese communist party in North Vietnam of which the Khmer Rouge became an off shoot mostly doing nothing other than occupying areas of jungle in Cambodia.
    Pol Pot meanwhile had been educated in Paris when Stalinism was popular amongst leftwing student groups so perhaps that's where his extremism came from.
    During the Vietnam war the Cambodian communists or Khmer Rouge aided the Viet Cong in supplying their insurgents in South Vietnam while the Cambodian leader. Prince Sihanouk turned a blind eye. As a result the Americans got rid of the prince which united people behind the Khmer Rouge until its victory and subsequent genocide.
    Oddly enough one of Pol Pots closest allies was the mildly communist Yugoslavia who sent technicians and aid to Cambodia.

    Shortly after the defeat of the KR by Vietnam which was condemned by the west the KR gave up communism as an ideology to gain popular support from Britain and America against the so-called illegal soviet backed Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia.
    Offline

    18
    Very little of this is anything more than the ramblings of somebody who has, at best, been conned by ideologues. But I'll humour you this once...

    (Original post by Ambitious1999)
    The Arab spring resulted partly from the mass unemployment, poverty and debt in Arab countries such as Libya, Tunisia and Syria that resulted from the global recession of 2008.
    In very small part from that, yes, and even then only on the principle that most events have knock-on effects, however small. Not nearly enough to justify your original statement that the Arab Spring was caused by the financial crisis.

    And, of course, you're completely wrong to assume that 'mass unemployment, poverty, and debt' in Arab countries was wholly, or even largely the consequence of the global recession as opposed to economic mismanagement by their own governments. And that's before we get to the original grievance: repressive dictatorship (although Tunisia is something of an exception to this) which did not tolerate peaceful demonstrations for reforms. But I suppose reality is less important to you than explaining all the problems of the known universe in terms of the evil bogeyman of capitalism.

    Jobless youths were told by extremists to blame everything on their leaders such as Gaddafi whose Arab socialist system ironically was the best in the Middle East and Africa.
    Nobody who knows the history of Libya under Gaddafi's final years would describe it as 'socialist.' Unlike places like China, that no longer operate under Communism in practice, Gaddafi had long ago abandoned any pretense to socialism and had developed his own political philosophy and published it in his The Green Book (although it contained very little serious argument or proposals).

    Instead Al Queda leaders told the youths that their poverty was because of their leaders and not the bankers in Europe and America
    Evidence? I have to say, you're sounding like a very naive, brainwashed idealist, given the huge, inaccurate claims that you're making. That you seem to think that all the economic woes of the world can be blamed on the banking sector of Europe and America doesn't suggest that you know anything at all about nuanced thought.

    You seem to have taken into account nothing of the pre-Arab Spring state of affairs in the countries in question, nothing of the religious sectarianism that bubbles under the surface of civil society in many peaceful Arab countries, and nothing of the actual Spring itself. The certainty with which you make these false claims indicates quite a degree of naivete and having memorised an explanation of something that you don't really understand.

    who in 2008 wrecked the economy and caused the worst economic depression in history.
    The Great Depression was worse.

    The youths would be encouraged to rebel force out their leaders and leave behind a power vacuum that would allow the growth of extremism and eventually ISIS in countries affected by the Arab spring.
    Again, big claims, zero evidence. The 'youths' rebelled of their own accord, starting with peaceful demonstrations, and escalating into armed conflict when those demonstrations were shut down by force.

    It really is telling, the extent to which you think every problem can be explained with incoherent diatribes about bankers and capitalism. Having had a few previous encounters with you, it seems to me that you really do not bother thinking for yourself and absorb whatever unsubstantiated propaganda reinforces your embryonic worldview (assuming, of course, from the 1999 in your username).
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BubbleBoobies)
    it discourages self-worth and personal ambition - it destroys the human spirit, does it not? how can a person feel like they matter if they are meant to be just like every other work-ant in their commune? also, communism makes people poorer, so making people poorer is *also* evil, surely?
    That's how 95% of people feel under capitalism. But as long as that 5% of people are empowered by it, you can peddle tales of rags to riches success and make the worker ants work.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TearsInRain)
    Oh please don't tell me that our medicine and technology are the result of natural law. Natural =/=best. Humans are always improving on what nature has provided for us and Communism is the next logical step.

    Like how we did not give up airplanes because some of the first models crashed, we should not give up on the Communist ideal just because some of the early proponents were fascists.
    I think you got the wrong end of the stick here.

    Where is communism (horizontal hierarchy) represented in nature?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by otester)
    I think you got the wrong end of the stick here.

    Where is communism (horizontal hierarchy) represented in nature?
    No, you are confused. I did not say Communism is present in nature; in fact it is the opposite. I used examples to show that the natural way is not necessarily the best way to do things.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Has a teacher ever helped you cheat?
    Useful resources

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Write a reply...
    Reply
    Hide
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.