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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Mate i like capitalism. It works. But not everything is black and white. You have to have some scale and margins, keep the big businesses in check. I dont like monopolies... is that unfair? Or should big business be aloud to run rampant and let capitalism play out however it wants?

    I dont agree with discriminating between nationalities, i said earlier, best man for the job. HOWEVER, you can limit the pool of people to protect the native population by not allowing an entire continent to compete for that job

    I cba provding a link, google tory fuel poverty criteria, unemployment statistics and have a read about. Pretty well known they shifted the goalposts for statistics


    3 types of lies, Lies, damned lies and statistics
    Well I do agree with that somewhat, point is the proposal from OP is ridiculous.

    As i said to the other guy, this could be detrimental to growth as it reduces productive potential, but that isnt necessarily the point
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    (Original post by NickLCFC)
    You do realise that the majority of Eastern Europeans that are doing these 'crap jobs' also claim tax benefits? In fact, about 40% of all EU migrants claim benefits as reported by the government Department of Work and Pensions. It's very debatable as to whether low they're contributing to the economy that massively. Not to mention, the mass immigration we see also puts a huge strain on our public services.
    Someone has to do them though regardless. The biggest threat to future public services is the Tory party.

    It's interesting how the govt made that claim but refused an FOI request for the data.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/d...nt-must-answer
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Ok well my point isnt going to strike a chord with you if you are still at school but lets say you go to uni and do a degree in Dentistry. You were born smart (Lucky), worked your balls off in college and uni, family supported you. You qualified to become a dentist. How would you feel the UK suddenly became an immensely attarctive destination for every dentist in the world? Suddenly your're skills are disposable, even if you gain employment you're wages are far lower than they would have been. All because you are now competing with the world instead of just your own countries population.

    Would that be tough tits? Capitalism for ya, shoulda done Opthmalogy? Or would you think hang on why are our government flooding us with an abundance of one skill set?
    Well, it seems to be quite a hyperbolic scenario,

    I wouldnt want the government to help me out and give me a job when an immigrant was better than me.

    Obviously you're raising the issue of immigration, which i agree need to be limited as well.

    Im speaking purely economically, immigrants are beneficial from a fiscal perspective but yes, issues like wage undercutting needs to be addressed. Its basic supply and demand really.
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    (Original post by NickLCFC)
    That's a lie. The majority of EU migrants are low-skilled workers.
    I agree it is a lie. It is the most disingenuous argument you will ever hear and is used by employers purposefully to cover their need for cheap labour to increase their profits using wage compression. Been listening to this particular lie for years now.

    Politicians use it as well. New Labour perfected this particular lie a couple of decades ago when trying to saturate the uk IT workplace with Indian developers on visas except in their case they were skilled but cheap labour. We had people skilled enough in the uk at the time but not cheap enough. It is also an excuse used to avoid the expense of re training uk workers, just ship in someone cheap instead.

    Imported Workers are good guys just trying to improve their lives in a foreign country.

    Shame you cant import cheap politicians that would give me karma.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Ok well my point isnt going to strike a chord with you if you are still at school but lets say you go to uni and do a degree in Dentistry. You were born smart (Lucky), worked your balls off in college and uni, family supported you. You qualified to become a dentist. How would you feel if the UK suddenly became an immensely attractive destination for every dentist in the world? Suddenly your're skills are disposable, even if you gain employment you're wages are far lower than they would have been. All because you are now competing with the world instead of just your own countries population.

    Would that be tough tits? Capitalism for ya, shoulda done Opthmalogy? Or would you think hang on why is our government flooding us with an abundance of one skill set?

    Excellent post!

    Its all old hat now to those who have been in the workplace for years, the cheap labour wheeze due to the government and employers lie of a 'skills shortage' when there wasnt really one has definitely affected my working life and was being used decades ago in the IT industry where cheap labour from countries such as India on visas were imported and also in call centres so the work could be moved offshore without too much complaint allowed from the working man in the uk.

    This will get far far worse once Bung City Brussels take full control of your laws and rights and multinational companies take control of EU politicians to help ever increase their profits through cheap labour and the resulting wage compression.
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    In Northern Ireland there's a double whammy. There's the foreign workers issue and there's the harsh reality that unless your name is Irish or Irish sounding you are at an automatic disadvantage when you apply for any job. So NI. is a cold house for non-Irish and people with non-Irish sounding names.
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    (Original post by MegaMal45)
    In Northern Ireland there's a double whammy. There's the foreign workers issue and there's the harsh reality that unless your name is Irish or Irish sounding you are at an automatic disadvantage when you apply for any job. So NI. is a cold house for non-Irish and people with non-Irish sounding names.
    That's interesting. There will always be immigration and especially from countries at war we need to help as much as we can. It has been proven however that the majority are economic migrants looking for a better life.

    You cant blame them for doing that and you cant blame them for trying to come here when the government are advertising that they should.

    They dont realise any more than the vast majority of the British public that the real government motivation for attracting them here is to increase the cheap labour supply in the uk to directly increase the wage profits of the multinationals who fill the Labour and Tory Party coffers.

    The desperate consequence is a lot of people dying attempting to get here, the government and their multinational company friends have blood on their hands in the name of profit which is absolutely disgusting.
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    (Original post by intelligent con)
    How about you give back what you stole from their countries first
    This is the result of brainwashing. It's the we are terrible and everyone else is brilliant and we owe them complex. It's a great way for lefties to bring in the "social change" they need.

    Many UK politicians had bought into this for a long time but now the government is kind of silently listening to the majority who don't think like this.

    And as for your argument, many many people in India would be over the moon to be run by the British or African people run by a European power. Why on earth would they not? Would you prefer to live under Uganda? Most of the infrastructure, political system and law was build by European powers. In India, the people I met think Britain is brilliant. It's just leftist propaganda that you are stating.







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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    What field do you work in Young Metro? Whats your degree / profession?

    Thanks
    You are losing the argument if you have to attack the person.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Ok well my point isnt going to strike a chord with you if you are still at school but lets say you go to uni and do a degree in Dentistry. You were born smart (Lucky), worked your balls off in college and uni, family supported you. You qualified to become a dentist. How would you feel if the UK suddenly became an immensely attractive destination for every dentist in the world? Suddenly your're skills are disposable, even if you gain employment you're wages are far lower than they would have been. All because you are now competing with the world instead of just your own countries population.

    Would that be tough tits? Capitalism for ya, shoulda done Opthmalogy? Or would you think hang on why is our government flooding us with an abundance of one skill set?
    I know a dentist from South Africa, he's pretty well off from drilling British teeth. The cheap dentist argument doesn't hold water because dentists in most parts of the world have to pay for their own expensive training and they need to earn that back by making lots of money.

    If lots of foreign dentists started working in the UK and saturate the market, their earnings will decrease to the point it would be better for them to stay at home or move elsewhere.

    You need a better argument.
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    I am a firm supporter of a businesses employing 'the right person for the job', with country they come from being irrelevant. It is also important to consider that just 13% of the UK's population is made up of people born abroad and many imigrants often perform jobs which the native population would not be happy to or able to perform. Allthough finding jobs has become increasingly compettitive in the past few years, the global world we live in today gives us greater flexibility in terms of working abroad.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    I know a dentist from South Africa, he's pretty well off from drilling British teeth. The cheap dentist argument doesn't hold water because dentists in most parts of the world have to pay for their own expensive training and they need to earn that back by making lots of money.

    If lots of foreign dentists started working in the UK and saturate the market, their earnings will decrease to the point it would be better for them to stay at home or move elsewhere.

    You need a better argument.
    Your argument is simply that one person from SA you know makes good money from being a dentist in Britain. (Good money is a relative thing and this example is anecdotal).

    The poster you replied to was simply using a dentistry example. The principle remains.

    The fact still remains that economics operates by supply and demand and that increasing the supply of Labour often decreases the wages and increases the unemployment rate.


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    (Original post by AliH36541)
    I am a firm supporter of a businesses employing 'the right person for the job', with country they come from being irrelevant. It is also important to consider that just 13% of the UK's population is made up of people born abroad and many imigrants often perform jobs which the native population would not be happy to or able to perform. Allthough finding jobs has become increasingly compettitive in the past few years, the global world we live in today gives us greater flexibility in terms of working abroad.
    You can employ someone who is right for the job who is one of your own people.

    It's a complete lack of mortals to let a British family with children lose their home when you could hire the breadwinner who is right for the job but instead you hire someone from abroad seeking better economic remuneration.



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    (Original post by Brillo100)
    Your argument is simply that one person from SA you know makes good money from being a dentist in Britain. (Good money is a relative thing and this example is anecdotal).

    The poster you replied to was simply using a dentistry example. The principle remains.

    The fact still remains that economics operates by supply and demand and that increasing the supply of Labour often decreases the wages and increases the unemployment rate.


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    I think its ironic you misunderstood the whole point of my post while pretending you do.

    If you really did understand about supply and demand, you will know there isn't going to be hoards of foreign dentists swamping the UK pulling people's teeth out for 5p because of my previous post. I suggest you read it properly first and then post, not the other way round.
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    (Original post by Brillo100)
    You can employ someone who is right for the job who is one of your own people.

    It's a complete lack of mortals to let a British family with children lose their home when you could hire the breadwinner who is right for the job but instead you hire someone from abroad seeking better economic remuneration.



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    Why don't we have Brummie jobs for Brummies only and London jobs for Londoners only. I am sure there are a lot of Brummies who hate everyone not from Birmingham and would only employ Brummies and not Londoners or the Welsh.
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    (Original post by Brillo100)
    You can employ someone who is right for the job who is one of your own people.

    It's a complete lack of mortals to let a British family with children lose their home when you could hire the breadwinner who is right for the job but instead you hire someone from abroad seeking better economic remuneration.



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    At the end of the day, if I were a business owner and I saw a candidate from the UK with the grades CCC and another from Singapore with the grades AAB I would be more likely to consider the person with the higher grades. That said if they didn't perform well in the interview, then I would not be likely to hire them. If the British candidate got grades ABB and performed well in the interview I would hire them. My point is that I would not simply look at where they came from as a factor in employing them.

    As I mentioned in my previous post, there are many jobs which British people simply don't want to do and these positions can be filled by willing people from another country. In the UK we rely heavaly on doctors from outside of the UK from countries such as India, simply because there are not enough highly trained British doctors. Without them, the NHS simply couldn't function.
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    If someone from a disadvantaged background can come into your country and do your job better than you, you have no right to that job.
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    (Original post by intelligent con)
    Its because good hard working muslims have helped build up the economy by founding businesses and doing the jobs lazy white Brits don't want to do. In contrast you Brits raped and pillaged a quarter of the world which is why people from these countries have to immigrate in the first place.
    That's ludicrous. "Lazy white Brits" are the people who built this country in the first place. Have you ever wondered why Britain was able to conquer so much? It's because we were far more advanced than the civilisations that my ancestors conquered. Guess what makes civilisations more advanced than others: hard working people.

    Now then, lets think about this logically. You're busy hating on white people because of the British empire, you claim that we're all lazy and "oppressive" because of it. So lets look at some other countries.

    1) Spain. The Hispanic people of Spain conquered large areas of South America. In doing so they completely eradicated Aztec and Inca civilisations.

    2) Arabia. Mohammad (pbuh) was a socially aggressive war lord who committed genocide multiple times while building up the Islamic empire. Those who refused to convert to Islam were all slaughtered and captured women were used as sex slaves. The most graphic example of this is the massacre of the Banu Quraysh tribe.

    3) Mongolia. The Mongols were a force to be reckoned with back in the days of Genghis Khan. They conquered much of north and east Asia.

    Does this mean that Hispanic people are all "evil conquers" as well? How about the Arabs (more specifically Arabic muslims), or Asians?

    Yea, I didn't think so. Only white people are, because we're white. Because we're white we're automatically responsible for the third world countries' problems. Because we're white we're automatically the "oppressors." Because we're white we're the world's scapegoat.

    Get out of here you racist idiot.

    (Original post by TheIr0nDuke)
    Why be so specific? Certain races have been much more helpful than others. Muslims are at the 'lesser helpful' end of the scale. Indians for example are hard working, law abiding, peaceful citizens.

    So because of our actions 200-250 years ago we get penalised for it? Does Turkey get penalised for the slaughter of Armenian Christians, and the Ottoman Empire? What about China, for their actions under Genghis Khan?
    PRSOM.

    They don't call Germans Nazis and penalise them for the Holocaust. Why do they penalise us for having an empire 250 years ago (despite the fact that most other races have had empires too)?

    I've lost track of how many times a white people speak last rule has been implemented in classroom discussions. When I challenge the reasoning behind it I'm called a racist! Seriously, what's not racist about not allowing white people to speak until everyone else has spoken simply because we're white?
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    (Original post by NickLCFC)
    I'm not trying to suggest that British people/workers are somehow superior. I was simply saying that the majority of EU migrants coming to the UK are low skilled workers. That is a fact.

    Not that I'm taking sides, but how the **** can you disregard statistics someone else posted without source literally one post earlier, and then say "that's a fact" about your point, which also has no source? Really *****y debating technique tbf

    (Original post by NickLCFC)
    I can't really trust those figures if you don't provide a source. It also doesn't change the fact that there are still vast numbers of low-skilled EU migrants coming into the UK...

    Migration Watch UK found the almost three quarters of Eastern Europeans working in the UK are in the low skilled jobs. A fair amount of these are pretty likely to claim tax credits.
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    (Original post by intelligent con)
    Its because good hard working muslims have helped build up the economy by founding businesses and doing the jobs lazy white Brits don't want to do. In contrast you Brits raped and pillaged a quarter of the world which is why people from these countries have to immigrate in the first place.
    Laziness isn't the main reason it's only a problem among a minority on the fringes of society.

    It's down to a mixture of skills shortages due to failings in the education system and vacancies for jobs that the average Brit considers beneath them.

    Trying to blame the British Empire for everything is a get out clause for some country's inability to run themselves properly. It's archaic mentalities that lead to ethnic and religious violence on a large scale which makes somewhere as tolerant as here a very attractive place to live. These divisions existed before the British Empire, which simply kept a lid on them for a while.
 
 
 
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