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Is denying Israels's right to exist anti-semitism? Watch

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    (Original post by Youngmetro)
    My bad. And dont talk about 'poor posts'. the reason you got violated in the other thread was for doing exactly that. Dont bother holding a grudge, and you're really not in a position to question my intelligence. And before you give me **** about your 2 masters, have a look at your payslip.
    That's your opinion. :lol:

    All your posts were wrong about me and everything you did was insulting me. I dare to question your intelligence.
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    I heard the wall built by the Israeli's, regardless for whatever reason claimed, actually broke international law.
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    I don't get this whole thing.
    The British Empire done untold horrors across the World.
    The United States are currently engaging in massive systemic human rights abuse arguably over the entire world.
    How many Scots have the English raped and killed over the years?
    How many English have the Scots raped and killed over the years?
    But no, Israel are the bad guys, despite the fact they're surrounded by entire region who would like nothing more than for them to be Smote from the earth,
    The Israelli Government may be doing bad things, but our Government purposefully does Evil **** all the time, and no one is campaigning to kick the English out of England and give it back to the Welsh.
    Why is no one campaigning to kick all the Europeans out of America and give it back to the Native Americans?
    Where would you like all the people in Israel to go? I hear there are Camps in Germany, or perhaps Construction work in Egypt?
    Yeah, if you're Anti-Israel, you're Ant-Semitic.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    That's your opinion. :lol:

    All your posts were wrong about me and everything you did was insulting me. I dare to question your intelligence.
    Lmaoo, nah we both know you did, you got a little upset, thats why you still hold a grudge on me lmaooo

    As i said, check your payslip. You're a burden to this country.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    I deny the "right to exist" of all and any states, as an anarchist. Nor does such a right exist in international law.

    In plenty of other conflicts and disputes, the "right to exist" of certain states is implicitly denied. To give just one example, Irish nationalists most certainly do not accept the idea that the UK has a "right to exist". Nor do Flemish and Waloon nationalists accept it of Belgium, and so on.

    The term is virtually unique to the Israel-Palestine conflict. Occasionally Kurdish, Chechen and Basque separatists have used the term, but there it just seems to be a clumsy wording (or even just bad translation) of a right of secession - at any rate, the world certainly doesn't recognise any inherent legal right to an independent state to any of those groups.

    When Israel talks of a "right to exist", it's really more of an indirect way of denying the Palestinian right of return, of reserving a "right" to stop the population of Palestinian citizens of Israel getting too high, if that ever became a problem, and more symbolically, to get the Palestinians to legitimise their own dispossession.

    Imagine if we'd required Sinn Fein to recognise Northern Ireland's "right to remain British/Protestant" before we'd consider negotiations - do you think they'd accept that in a million years?
    You're right that I didn't mention anarchists, but obviously the vast majority of people who deny Israel's right to exist aren't anarchists. I strongly disagree with your interpretation of the term. When Israel talks about the "right to exist," it's in reference to the way the rest of the world uses it, which is to say that the country should be dissolved because it's an oppressor and that Hamas/the PA should take over.

    (Original post by Youngmetro)
    You really think the Jews would do that? They've been using the positive discrimination they receive as leverage to take advantage and continue to oppress the Palestinians. The israelis are untouchable and dont respect law at all.
    Okay so I think you're on the side that says that anti-Zionism isn't anti-Semitism but you're conflating all Jews with all Israelis and all Israeli action and that's the problem right there. Also, the whole "all Jews are involved in a mass conspiracy" thing? It's been done before. Many times before over thousands of years. You're not new with that one!

    I'm an American but I'll be damned if I'll let people say Israel's done worse stuff than the US (or the UK for that matter - y'all were a colonizing force long before anyone considered modern Israel a plausible possibility). But no one goes off on the British or the Americans blaming us for what our people (mostly conservative leadership, just like Bibi is conservative, so Bush/Cameron/etc) did.
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    (Original post by Redmonds)
    No. Israel is not the same thing as Judaism. I don't call people 'Islamophobic for denying the sovereignty of Palestine. How about all the Jewish people that are campaigning against the actions of Israel and its expansion? DO we call them anti-semitic?
    The media likes to call them sometimes 'self-hating jews' . Just look at jon stewart when he criticized isreal.
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    (Original post by Youngmetro)
    The israelis are untouchable and dont respect law at all.
    Yeah, everybody who wants to "touch" Jews in Israel will deal with IDF. Very sad, isn't it? :cool:
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    (Original post by queenofswords)
    Discuss.
    Anti-semite= no (semites can refer to arabs, Aramaic and Ethiopians as well as hebrew/jewish people)

    Anti-zionist= obviously
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    (Original post by Volvic Water)
    They idea that all of Israel's neighbours "want to destroy" it is a bit of a myth, Israel has peace treaties with Jordan and Egypt and has been getting quite chummy with Saudi lately.
    If Israel did not spend so much of its GDP on defence it might well be the richest nation on earth, as it is now, it is as about as rich as an average Liverpool suburb (eg under UK average).

    I can assure you, no democracy is going to vote for massive defence spending if its neighbours did not want to destroy it.

    Its a self evident truth that Isreal is hated by much of the muslim world, not just on an ordinary level, but as a religious belief that is taught in their schools, and textbooks

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_...ok_controversy

    "Among the passages found in one 10th-grade Saudi textbook on Monotheism included: "The Hour will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews, and Muslims will kill all the Jews."[1] Another work (M. H. Shakir's translation of the Holy Qur'an) in a discussion of the early Muslims attacks on the Ibn Nadhir tribe, stated: "It's allowed to demolish, burn or destroy the bastions of the Kuffar (infidels)- and all what constitutes their shield from Muslims if that was for the sake of victory for the Muslims and the defeat for the Kuffar".[2]The American government called on Saudi Arabia to reform its educational curriculum, including textbooks in Saudi schools and distributed worldwide, by reviewing and revising educational materials and eliminating any that spread "intolerance and hatred" towards Christians and Jews and promoted holy war against "unbelievers."[3]Some Saudis vigorously opposed changes. Al Fawzan, the author of the textbook on monotheism and "one of the staunchest religious conservatives in the education system", wrote in a February 11, 2002 article in the Saudi newspaper Al Jazeera:"The Jews and Christians and the polytheists have shown their heartfelt hatred and try to prevent us from the true path of God. They want to change our religion and our teaching to disconnect us from Islam so they can come and occupy us with their armies. It is bad enough when it comes from the infidels, but worse when they are of our skin. They say we create parrots, but they are the real parrots repeating what our enemies say of Islam."[1]

    "

    Do a very simple test, go up to any Muslim person you know and ask them "What do you think of Israel"
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    If Israel did not spend so much of its GDP on defence it might well be the richest nation on earth, as it is now, it is as about as rich as an average Liverpool suburb (eg under UK average).
    False. Israel derives some of it's GDP from it's defence sector, by using the Gaza Strip and the West Bank as guinea pigs to showcase their latest weapons.

    Without Palestinian armed resistance, Israel would be a shadow of it's former self. The defence industry is a major employer in Israel and if the Palestinians stopped fighting, Israel would face an existential crisis.

    I can assure you, no democracy is going to vote for massive defence spending if its neighbours did not want to destroy it.
    Defence spending has decreased (or remained stable) over the last 5 years.

    Its a self evident truth that Isreal is hated by much of the muslim world, not just on an ordinary level, but as a religious belief that is taught in their schools, and textbooks

    Do a very simple test, go up to any Muslim person you know and ask them "What do you think of Israel"
    They would probably say that Israel is a racist state that has colonial and genocidal aspirations.

    (Original post by sjohnson98)
    I'm an American but I'll be damned if I'll let people say Israel's done worse stuff than the US (or the UK for that matter - y'all were a colonizing force long before anyone considered modern Israel a plausible possibility). But no one goes off on the British or the Americans blaming us for what our people (mostly conservative leadership, just like Bibi is conservative, so Bush/Cameron/etc) did.
    Strawman argument - No one is saying that.

    When people criticise Israel, they criticise it because of it's actions. When people criticise the USA, they criticise it because of it's actions.

    I don't see Zionists (or Israeli supporters) coming to the fore when the America is criticised stating "Yes, America has done wrong but Israel has done wrong also".
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    (Original post by sjohnson98)

    Okay so I think you're on the side that says that anti-Zionism isn't anti-Semitism but you're conflating all Jews with all Israelis and all Israeli action and that's the problem right there. Also, the whole "all Jews are involved in a mass conspiracy" thing? It's been done before. Many times before over thousands of years. You're not new with that one!

    I'm an American but I'll be damned if I'll let people say Israel's done worse stuff than the US (or the UK for that matter - y'all were a colonizing force long before anyone considered modern Israel a plausible possibility). But no one goes off on the British or the Americans blaming us for what our people (mostly conservative leadership, just like Bibi is conservative, so Bush/Cameron/etc) did.
    Well the jews live on land that is the palestinians and is ruled unlawful by international law and yet they continue to expand. Not every jew is responsible but there are many who help it. As i said, jews have victimised themselves so much to the point where the israeli government is the one that usually takes all the hit, but when the Jews help this and have the cheek to protest on Palestinian land to harrass the Palestinians and yet still play the victim role.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    False. Israel derives some of it's GDP from it's defence sector, by using the Gaza Strip and the West Bank as guinea pigs to showcase their latest weapons.
    I think the real evidence is the reverse of what you say. Israel has a tiny population (in global terms) but has many many billionaires around the world willing to support it.

    The fact that the average Israeli person living in Israel is poorer than a UK person is because so much money has to go into defence and so much time by so many young people - who should be out in the world making money.

    If they could stop the wars they would LOVE TO DO SO... They don't want to be poor and scared - I can assure you.

    Clearly, the available evidence, proves beyond any reasonable doubt (if you're willing to be reasonable), that Israel is poorer than us because really large numbers of people in all the muslim countries around it and in many other muslim countries in the world want them destroyed.

    As a test go up to any Muslim person you know and ask this simple question: "What do you think of Israel".
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    I think the real evidence is the reverse of what you say. Israel has a tiny population (in global terms) but has many many billionaires around the world willing to support it.

    The fact that the average Israeli person living in Israel is poorer than a UK person is because so much money has to go into defence and so much time by so many young people - who should be out in the world making money.

    If they could stop the wars they would LOVE TO DO SO... They don't want to be poor and scared - I can assure you.

    Clearly, the available evidence, proves beyond any reasonable doubt (if you're willing to be reasonable), that Israel is poorer than us because really large numbers of people in all the muslim countries around it and in many other muslim countries in the world want them destroyed.

    As a test go up to any Muslim person you know and ask this simple question: "What do you think of Israel".
    They would probably say that Israel is a racist state that has colonial and genocidal aspirations
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    (Original post by sjohnson98)
    You're right that I didn't mention anarchists, but obviously the vast majority of people who deny Israel's right to exist aren't anarchists. I strongly disagree with your interpretation of the term. When Israel talks about the "right to exist," it's in reference to the way the rest of the world uses it, which is to say that the country should be dissolved because it's an oppressor and that Hamas/the PA should take over.
    The rest of the world doesn't use it. As I said, it's a term virtually unique to the Israel-Palestine conflict.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    The rest of the world doesn't use it. As I said, it's a term virtually unique to the Israel-Palestine conflict.
    I meant the way that the rest of the world refers to the conflict.
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    (Original post by Youngmetro)
    Well the jews live on land that is the palestinians and is ruled unlawful by international law and yet they continue to expand. Not every jew is responsible but there are many who help it. As i said, jews have victimised themselves so much to the point where the israeli government is the one that usually takes all the hit, but when the Jews help this and have the cheek to protest on Palestinian land to harrass the Palestinians and yet still play the victim role.
    My point here is that you should be saying Israelis, not Jews. I'm not going to argue the rest of it, but let's not include the millions of Jews who live outside of Israel when discussing Israeli actions.
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    (Original post by sjohnson98)
    My point here is that you should be saying Israelis, not Jews. I'm not going to argue the rest of it, but let's not include the millions of Jews who live outside of Israel when discussing Israeli actions.
    My bad, i think i should be saying 'Israeli jews' however one can also say this is just political correctness.
 
 
 
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