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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    Isn't this a tad unreasonable? I mean, you're using specific incidents with certain groups of people to define an entire race. I'm sure if British and American citizens started sweeping into Easter Europe and Asia because of some crisis (although this would never happen), you'd get similar cases occurring. Not everybody from the countries in question are good people and the same goes for any country in the West. Everybody is just scared and freaking out, which is understandable, but you must accept that that's as far as your protest goes. The West shoulders this because it is partially to blame for the events arising in the first place. Not to mention that many of the people moving into the West from the Middle East have no intention of causing such chaos and harm - they simply have no where else to go and have lost everything. Don't tell me we wouldn't do the same should it happen to us. When they all or at least the majority start behaving in this one particular manner, then your point will have significant validity. However, until then, I'm sorry but it just does not hold.

    There needs to be control, there needs to be regulation, and there needs to be a process. Just saying "no" is not helping anything. The sweeping perception of Islam and Middle Eastern people is not going to be helped by far-right policy, it's only going to be made worse. The majority of these people haven't done anything wrong. They have had their lives completely obliterated by war. We cry about Paris and Brussels whilst they are experiencing such bombings every single day. If it was going on in France, Belgium, Germany, England - everybody would be in absolute hysterics if countries weren't helping. They need a chance to integrate and the people who do cause chaos, who do rape, who do murder, should be removed or imprisoned just as anybody else who commits such crimes should be. We need to move away from associating solely these people with those actions - it happens everyday in the West and the East with no discrimination. It's only being given attention by the media because this is a point of a complete and utter breakdown in order and a time of crisis in the world.

    Now, I'm not moaning at you at all or trying to intimidate you and cause a row but your comments on these issues, like many others on this site, are very unreasonable. Regardless of whether or not they are opinions, we have the right to agree and disagree.
    I am using specific examples yes but majority of the migrants aren't even refugees and a lot of them are men. And they all claim to come from Syria/The Middle East which is a region which consistently comes among the lowest in the world for things such as gender equality. In that culture, women are often viewed as nothing but sexual objects or something of the sort.

    I'm all for taking actual refugees in, not pretend ones who are just running to Europe for benefits. But the fact that the migrant crisis is something that's completely uncontrolled is very very worrying.

    There was some report a while back of a city in Syria where children and families have been starving to death and have been reduced to eating grass and cats to survive. Those are the real refugees as well as the Yazidi girls. Not the fit men of fighting age who have left their families to suffer in a warzone while they run off to comfort and a totally alien culture.
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    (Original post by Start the Fire)
    you're probably not a troll, just a cuckold
    You know, I've encountered so much r*tarded sh*t on TSR from all the Islamic apologists, that I don't know whether these people are actually serious or not.
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    (Original post by Start the Fire)
    you think it's homophobic to suck a Muslim's ****?
    I think it's pathetic that you insult him unnecessarily when he's trying to make a logical argument.

    Grow the hell up. I'm sure you're nowhere near as brave in real life as you are when you're behind a screen and a keyboard.
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    (Original post by Start the Fire)
    It works for Frankie Boyle m8
    Because of people like you?

    Not to mention there is somewhat of a difference between being on stage and acting than pretending to be on a stage on an internet forum insulting strangers, hiding behind anonymity.

    But maybe I am wrong and you will have a glorious career in comedy. If you do, be sure to come back here and tell us.
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    (Original post by Start the Fire)
    maybe we could learn a thing or two from them
    Perhaps you should run off to the ME perhaps? If you have that view wtf are you doing here?
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    I think it's pathetic that you insult him unnecessarily when he's trying to make a logical argument.

    Grow the hell up. I'm sure you're nowhere near as brave in real life as you are when you're behind a screen and a keyboard.
    I can't say I’ve ever claimed to be brave, so I must radiate some sort of courage to you, nice.
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    (Original post by Start the Fire)
    I can't say I’ve ever claimed to be brave, so I must radiate some sort of courage to you, nice.
    You missed the bit where I called you pathetic.

    Hiding behind anonymity.. If you walked around public and shouted out your disgusting slurs you wouldn't last.
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    What makes you say that? I'm making seriously solid arguments, I have no idea why people are being so ****ing irritating about this.

    I do not think Islam is by and large peaceful, no. However, I believe this is down to interpretation of the Qur'an and other things. I think religion generally does a great deal of harm but I do know many muslims who are actually some of the best people I have ever had the good fortune to meet. Does that or does that not, answer your question?
    You should have said No, and left it at that but instead you go on to defend it. You don't know how many homosexuals, disabled, non-religious, kids, animals, women, men and innocents have died at the hands of these barbaric ideologies. You are an extremist sympathising extremist yourself actually.
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    (Original post by brainhuman)
    I am sorry, but you are simply put wrong. I don't deny rape occurs elsewhere. But in a culture that is still based on archaic, patriarchial writings that consider women as property, it is only logical even, that it occurs more. You are quite right about the order part, it occurs more now than with order because they can get away with it more easily, but the fact remains, and I refer you to below on my part about Sweden, that it is much more common with them.

    a) They are coming? Isn't that why Merkel is bending over for Erdogan so he stops them in Turkey?

    b) "Our policies, values and laws are not changing" - they always are. You think gay marriage could even have been thought a remote possibly 50 years ago? And that is the thing with Islam - it is resistant to change. It does not want change and it integrates so deeply into the culture of its followers that it is a huge problem compared to our values. Please note that I am specifically saying Islam (the ideology) not Muslims (the people) because I do believe that some Muslims will find a way to adapt. But it is simple fact that you can see by looking at predominantly Muslim countries, that they overwhelmingly have a culture that is heavily influenced by the teachings of Muhammed. As did we - the Church used to have a much bigger role in culture and society. The only difference is we managed to progress. They haven't and it doesn't look like they will or even want to.

    c) Yes they can - but that is why I mentioned a) there are too many to provide integration courses including language lessons. I would have no problem with a smaller number of immigrants. I even believe it is our moral duty to help. But we have to be realistic here, and if we are we must admit that this will not end up well.

    PC is a piece of...sorry but it's true. Google rape in Sweden - the government is so scared of being labelled racist and admitting its failed integration policies that it does not address the issue. By being scared of bringing up sensitive issues, you ignore the issues and let them get worse. PC limits freedom of speech, too. Because freedom of speech should include being able to voice opinions that others are "offended" by (quotation marks coz in our PC era everyone is offended by everything). PC stops outrage and some things need outrage to come to the forefront and be tackled.
    I don't see how this at all proves anything I have said wrong? In fact, you are rather agreeing with me. As such, I don't quite understand the first sentence.

    a). And he can't. They will go through Greece, through other countries, or will live in Camps because they can't go any further, as has happened in Calais. This is because once there, what can the countries do with them? Accommodate or leave them and if they leave them, they have a human rights issue on their hands that nobody wants to be smeared with.

    b). You are manipulating what I said here to suit your own argument. I made that comment in relation to what was being discussed. Do not use gay marriage - I might be gay but these issues are not of interest to me. Banging on about gay marriage or gay rights won't help your debate. The gay marriage comment anyway, is not relevant for the reason given in my second sentence. It is out of context entirely. Islam is not resistant to change, particular Islamic countries are. Change comes everywhere eventually. Many muslims do not conform to the rules laid down in Islamic countries; my best friend and his family are devout muslims yet have been the most accepting of my sexuality out of everybody I have met to date apart from another friend and her family but then her father is a labour politician so it was expected. Anyway, digressions. You are moving away from the actualities of the debate, again, to suit your own point of view. You are talking about Islam in general, not muslims. Islamic countries may appear resistant, it does not mean your average muslim is. I haven't met a single muslim I've had an issue with or who seems to be backward, in my 18 years on this planet. I think you're being totally warped by fear and media coverage of events. It's not that you're ignoring reality or even disagreeing with it, it's that you don't know what it actually is. As you have mentioned, you are talking about the Islamic ideology, which is not wholly relevant because it is the muslims that we are dealing with, not the Islamic concept. Again, the final point is just not relevant. We have huge muslim populations who don't act in such a backward way. In my opinion, it's about the chance being given. Everything you're saying is true in itself but at the end of the day, this issue has been covered by things I have already said. If they do not integrate or conduct themselves in distasteful ways, they will be dealt with in accordance with Western values and laws. That's all there is to it. Your concern is irrational.

    c). This is why countries are taking specific numbers. I don't think they are each actually taking in more than they can handle. The United Kingdom, for example, has only pledged to take in only 20,000. The comment about smaller numbers is not relevant either because you don't get to decide the numbers this issue has an impact on and this carries us over onto the next comment - if you believe its our moral duty, why does that change when numbers increase? We won't take more than we can handle. This is why borders are closing throughout Europe and England and other off-shore countries are only taking specific numbers and there is a long and drawn-out process to admit those individuals to the countries in question.

    I disagree. Political Correctness is not as bad as people make it out to be. It's just like the free speech debate - people do not understand what constitutes free speech and cannot demarcate between what is going beyond the boundaries of free speech and what is not, what becomes hate and what is okay.
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    You missed the bit where I called you pathetic.

    Hiding behind anonymity.. If you walked around public and shouted out your disgusting slurs you wouldn't last.
    I swear pretty often in public, lots of people do, do you... live in the UK?
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Well they shouldnt have signed up to the 1951 Convention on Refugees.
    In this case the relevant neighbours will be Italy, Switzerland and Slovakia
    I say again, Germany, Greece and Sweden invited these migrants. By the way you have to be validated before you are a refugee and well, the vast majority of these swarms are not going through due process of being validated. Plus national law has higher precedence than conventions. Countries who didn't invite these people can not let them in, simple.
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Perhaps you should run off to the ME perhaps? If you have that view wtf are you doing here?
    I like pork to much to live there
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    :') this just made my coffee taste 10 times better
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    I don't see how this at all proves anything I have said wrong? In fact, you are rather agreeing with me. As such, I don't quite understand the first sentence.

    a). And he can't. They will go through Greece, through other countries, or will live in Camps because they can't go any further, as has happened in Calais. This is because once there, what can the countries do with them? Accommodate or leave them and if they leave them, they have a human rights issue on their hands that nobody wants to be smeared with.

    b). You are manipulating what I said here to suit your own argument. I made that comment in relation to what was being discussed. Do not use gay marriage - I might be gay but these issues are not of interest to me. Banging on about gay marriage or gay rights won't help your debate. The gay marriage comment anyway, is not relevant for the reason given in my second sentence. It is out of context entirely. Islam is not resistant to change, particular Islamic countries are. Change comes everywhere eventually. Many muslims do not conform to the rules laid down in Islamic countries; my best friend and his family are devout muslims yet have been the most accepting of my sexuality out of everybody I have met to date apart from another friend and her family but then her father is a labour politician so it was expected. Anyway, digressions. You are moving away from the actualities of the debate, again, to suit your own point of view. You are talking about Islam in general, not muslims. Islamic countries may appear resistant, it does not mean your average muslim is. I haven't met a single muslim I've had an issue with or who seems to be backward, in my 18 years on this planet. I think you're being totally warped by fear and media coverage of events. It's not that you're ignoring reality or even disagreeing with it, it's that you don't know what it actually is. As you have mentioned, you are talking about the Islamic ideology, which is not wholly relevant because it is the muslims that we are dealing with, not the Islamic concept. Again, the final point is just not relevant. We have huge muslim populations who don't act in such a backward way. In my opinion, it's about the chance being given. Everything you're saying is true in itself but at the end of the day, this issue has been covered by things I have already said. If they do not integrate or conduct themselves in distasteful ways, they will be dealt with in accordance with Western values and laws. That's all there is to it. Your concern is irrational.

    c). This is why countries are taking specific numbers. I don't think they are each actually taking in more than they can handle. The United Kingdom, for example, has only pledged to take in only 20,000. The comment about smaller numbers is not relevant either because you don't get to decide the numbers this issue has an impact on and this carries us over onto the next comment - if you believe its our moral duty, why does that change when numbers increase? We won't take more than we can handle. This is why borders are closing throughout Europe and England and other off-shore countries are only taking specific numbers and there is a long and drawn-out process to admit those individuals to the countries in question.

    I disagree. Political Correctness is not as bad as people make it out to be. It's just like the free speech debate - people do not understand what constitutes free speech and cannot demarcate between what is going beyond the boundaries of free speech and what is not, what becomes hate and what is okay.
    I have to finish work, I will reply later. Just want to say, I did not know you were gay and that gay marriage was totally a random example (in case you thought I was taking a jibe at you for being gay or anything). I used it more because the Church is actually also strongly against this, and that had translated even into not too recently it being illegal even to be gay.
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    (Original post by Start the Fire)
    I swear pretty often in public, lots of people do, do you... live in the UK?
    I do but unlike you I'm not a douchebag because I don't slur at people behind a screen.

    Pathetic. Run along. It's nearly your bedtime.
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    (Original post by Start the Fire)
    I like pork to much to live there
    Sucks to be you then. Maybe they'll make an exception with your backward homophobic views.
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    Isn't this a tad unreasonable? I mean, you're using specific incidents with certain groups of people to define an entire race. I'm sure if British and American citizens started sweeping into Easter Europe and Asia because of some crisis (although this would never happen), you'd get similar cases occurring. Not everybody from the countries in question are good people and the same goes for any country in the West. Everybody is just scared and freaking out, which is understandable, but you must accept that that's as far as your protest goes. The West shoulders this because it is partially to blame for the events arising in the first place. Not to mention that many of the people moving into the West from the Middle East have no intention of causing such chaos and harm - they simply have no where else to go and have lost everything. Don't tell me we wouldn't do the same should it happen to us. When they all or at least the majority start behaving in this one particular manner, then your point will have significant validity. However, until then, I'm sorry but it just does not hold.

    There needs to be control, there needs to be regulation, and there needs to be a process. Just saying "no" is not helping anything. The sweeping perception of Islam and Middle Eastern people is not going to be helped by far-right policy, it's only going to be made worse. The majority of these people haven't done anything wrong. They have had their lives completely obliterated by war. We cry about Paris and Brussels whilst they are experiencing such bombings every single day. If it was going on in France, Belgium, Germany, England - everybody would be in absolute hysterics if countries weren't helping. They need a chance to integrate and the people who do cause chaos, who do rape, who do murder, should be removed or imprisoned just as anybody else who commits such crimes should be. We need to move away from associating solely these people with those actions - it happens everyday in the West and the East with no discrimination. It's only being given attention by the media because this is a point of a complete and utter breakdown in order and a time of crisis in the world.

    Now, I'm not moaning at you at all or trying to intimidate you and cause a row but your comments on these issues, like many others on this site, are very unreasonable. Regardless of whether or not they are opinions, we have the right to agree and disagree.
    PRSOM
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    (Original post by Tyreke)
    I suppose its because the article was created in September 2015, perhaps the statistics for that year weren't widely available then.

    I agree, it demonstrates a level of control. But this control must be relative to a country's current population and its ability to house an additional 300,000 people or so per year. Some countries are in a better position than others in this regards. Enlgand isn't, due to the housing crisis, highest population density in Europe, strained NHS and a strained education system.
    I accept that. However, I feel like England could have said no... I don't know.
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    (Original post by Omen96)
    You should have said No, and left it at that but instead you go on to defend it. You are pathetic. Islam is a barbaric piece of dog **** as is Christianity and any ******** religion. You don't know how many homosexuals, disabled, non-religious, kids, animals, women, men and innocents have died at the hands of these barbaric ideologies. You are an extremist sympathising extremist yourself actually.
    Being gay myself, I'm fully aware of what happens in the Middle East to people like myself and to women, and so on. I am not an extremist. I said no. I answered the question. However, a defence is necessary because it isn't point blank bad. You are extremely bigoted.
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    (Original post by Start the Fire)
    Aww diddums, maybe you should turn off the computer screen if you can't handle mean words, and wear earplugs, and never go outside :*(


    technically homos are the 'backwards' ones when you think about where they put their cocks

    Nah babe I need my laptop on.

    And why the hell does it matter to you about the sex life of someone? Are you annoyed you aren't getting any?
 
 
 
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