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    (Original post by shawtyb)
    but what if people cant get a 21k yearly salary job ?
    even if they try their hardest, its not always possible to get into a job that pays that
    what if they graduate and then have an accident that stops them getting a decent career?
    thats why you work hard from the get go and go into law/banking/medicine so you're not a burden to this great nation
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    (Original post by gr8wizard10)
    (Original post by shawtyb)
    but what if people cant get a 21k yearly salary job ?even if they try their hardest, its not always possible to get into a job that pays thatwhat if they graduate and then have an accident that stops them getting a decent career?
    thats why you work hard from the get go and go into law/banking/medicine so you're not a burden to this great nation
    There are three things that shawtyb is saying - (i) students need a 21k salary job, (ii) students fail at that if get into a job that is lower, (iii) students can do well but real life might happen, that might throw a spanner in the works to do as well as they could.

    What you are suggesting, is that (i) students didn't work hard if they didn't get a good job out of a finite number of places, if they had to settle for less rather than claiming benefits XD or real-life happened that caused them to not be able to do what they trained to do (which can happen to anyone), (ii) if you go into law/banking/medicine, you'll have no problems getting the job, but as a law student, I can tell you the field is very competitive and it is not easy to get a job especially when firms look at experience and your A-level grades and sometimes your GCSE grades - so law/banking/medicine is no safe haven, (iii) students that don't work out and don't repay are a burden, despite the efforts they have made (those who are burdensome, are those that don't do nothing for no reason) - don't scapegoat students - the Institute of Fiscal Studies even released a report of how hard it is for students to repay
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    (Original post by animus01)
    There are three things that shawtyb is saying - (i) students need a 21k salary job, (ii) students fail at that if get into a job that is lower, (iii) students can do well but real life might happen, that might throw a spanner in the works to do as well as they could.

    What you are suggesting, is that (i) students didn't work hard if they didn't get a good job out of a finite number of places, if they had to settle for less rather than claiming benefits XD or real-life happened that caused them to not be able to do what they trained to do (which can happen to anyone), (ii) if you go into law/banking/medicine, you'll have no problems getting the job, but as a law student, I can tell you the field is very competitive and it is not easy to get a job especially when firms look at experience and your A-level grades and sometimes your GCSE grades - so law/banking/medicine is no safe haven, (iii) students that don't work out and don't repay are a burden, despite the efforts they have made (those who are burdensome, are those that don't do nothing for no reason) - don't scapegoat students - the Institute of Fiscal Studies even released a report of how hard it is for students to repay
    no, people are just lazy.. there are countless opportunities to get into a desired profession.. so for the individual studnent, they can only blame themselves if they've failed to do so. i don't sympathise with those who don't utilise the available resources to their full potential. the incentive functions of this country are pretty crap tbh, in most areas of social and economic responsibility, we moreso allow for people to have the option to do well as oppose to inciting the fiery passion of making people 'need' to do well for themselves. we put too much of a cusion for people to fall back on which people will just take advantage off.
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    (Original post by gr8wizard10)
    no, people are just lazy.. there are countless opportunities to get into a desired profession.. so for the individual studnent, they can only blame themselves if they've failed to do so. i don't sympathise with those who don't utilise the available resources to their full potential. the incentive functions of this country are pretty crap tbh, in most areas of social and economic responsibility, we moreso allow for people to have the option to do well as oppose to inciting the fiery passion of making people 'need' to do well for themselves. we put too much of a cusion for people to fall back on which people will just take advantage off.
    So you want the UK to become the US?

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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    So you want the UK to become the US?
    neo-liberalism is a fine concept, if done correctly

    i don't want the uk to become anything, i'm simply identifying we have far too much cusion space that it reduces peoples incentives to strive far and wide
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    (Original post by gr8wizard10)
    no, people are just lazy.. there are countless opportunities to get into a desired profession.. so for the individual studnent, they can only blame themselves if they've failed to do so. i don't sympathise with those who don't utilise the available resources to their full potential. the incentive functions of this country are pretty crap tbh, in most areas of social and economic responsibility, we moreso allow for people to have the option to do well as oppose to inciting the fiery passion of making people 'need' to do well for themselves. we put too much of a cusion for people to fall back on which people will just take advantage off.
    I would be interested to know how your experience is, to have such confidence in the 'countless opportunities' and suggesting, that students not able to take such opportunities are 'just lazy' and 'can only blame themselves'. It is quite a black-and-white view, to only recognise winners and losers, while not acknowledging the very real problems of what students face. While I can acknowledge that there are some who don't do too well and don't try, there are those that do and don't always get the job they wanted, sometimes having to strive for something else and sometimes dealing with some very real life issues (which @shawtyb mentioned) - which is the point being made.

    The only reason we have this topic up, is because there is dissatisfaction that not all students repay their loans - the argument behind made: it is the students's fault for not working hard enough - Was there any dissatisfaction when tuition was free, and can it be said that back in those days, that everyone got high marks and got the jobs they wanted? I doubt - The ONLY reason it is a 'problem' is because students now pay for their education and that the repayments are not being paid in full BUT can you truly say the repayment amount is sustainable - the fact is (by the IFS as previously mentioned) it is NOT so! why blame the students who didn't ask for the debt and didn't ask to be a so-called 'burden'

    What is coming across is, you can wish all you like to do better in life, but ultimately, if you can't pay, don't bother XD which only serves to reinforce the glass ceiling

    It is the cost that should be looked at, not the students who are making a choice to better themselves and do better in life. Is that so wrong?

    Even Teachers are not able to repay their student loans, so they a 'problem' too? A bigger problem than teacher shortages?
    Link: https://www.tes.com/news/school-news...ost-government
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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    According to the reports this morning the "average English student" has student loans of £44,000 which could rise too £50,000 in the next few years.

    If people are having their debts cleared after 30 years and also not having to pay them back until they earn £21,000 then this is just causing huge amount of debt to be passed onto the tax payer. The outstanding loan debt is £46bn and will rise to £200bn in the next 30 years - NAO

    About 50% of students are not expected to earn enough money to repay ALL their loan.
    If they can't afford it, what do you want them to do?
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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    According to the reports this morning the "average English student" has student loans of £44,000 which could rise too £50,000 in the next few years.

    If people are having their debts cleared after 30 years and also not having to pay them back until they earn £21,000 then this is just causing huge amount of debt to be passed onto the tax payer. The outstanding loan debt is £46bn and will rise to £200bn in the next 30 years - NAO

    About 50% of students are not expected to earn enough money to repay ALL their loan.
    Maybe they should invest more in education like in Canada.
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    80% of eu students don't repay their loans. The avoiders are the problem
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    (Original post by neal95)
    80% of eu students don't repay their loans. The avoiders are the problem
    Agreed, and if im not mistaken have they not put laws in place to start prosecution and get debt collectors too recoup the debts?
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    If they can't afford it, what do you want them to do?
    Well this is the issue; but not affording it do you mean;

    A medicine graduate who fell into hardship? Or a Drama graduate who fell into expected unemployment?

    Yes this promotes elitist degrees but the system currently is allowing universities too scam students out of 27k+ by giving them false hope.
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    (Original post by Rhythmical)
    No need to have an attack as this is a student forum and you may find yourself in a predicament. There should be cuts in benefits/foreign aid/defence rather than student loans.
    Hes right though, the entire issue is ill deserving morons end up at uni, with poor degrees just to get wasted and have the "uni experience". Whilst those sensible end up paying waaay more money than they ever earnt to balance out those who cant afford due to poor degree choices.
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    (Original post by A Mysterious Lord)
    Ohhhh I see, the OP wants to go to uni but doesn't qualify for any loans.
    Smh whiny upper middle
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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    Well this is the issue; but not affording it do you mean;

    A medicine graduate who fell into hardship? Or a Drama graduate who fell into expected unemployment?

    Yes this promotes elitist degrees but the system currently is allowing universities too scam students out of 27k+ by giving them false hope.
    I mean not affording it for whatever reason. If they do not have the funds, how can they pay it back? After all, nobody wants to be poor.

    There are well paid jobs with any degree, but the degree doesn't stand alone. You have to apply yourself if you want to succeed
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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    Well this is the issue; but not affording it do you mean;

    A medicine graduate who fell into hardship? Or a Drama graduate who fell into expected unemployment?

    Yes this promotes elitist degrees but the system currently is allowing universities too scam students out of 27k+ by giving them false hope.
    This loan system needs to be completely redone, and thought about, I and others plan on doing degrees with good salaries , because of this were forced to pay more money for our loans than we initially took out, unless we pay the full sum straight away. The problem is someone doing a degree like fashion buying, generally knows its prospects are poor in terms of salary bar the exception. Lets say they only ever earn 20k, someone who chose a sensible degree with a salary of 40k+ ends up in the longterm really paying for most of the other persons uni debt as well as their own, due to the interest rates. The interest thing is what the government uses to balance out those with poor degrees, with those with good ones.
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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    Never said they did - Again you are just assuming.

    Paying £50k for a degree which is worthless is about the same as paying £50k for a luxury car with no petrol, you can experience the feeling but you are going no where and just obstructing others.

    There corrected the last line for you aswell - Define investment please.
    There's no worthless degree
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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    Agreed, and if im not mistaken have they not put laws in place to start prosecution and get debt collectors too recoup the debts?
    They have agents whose job it is to establish contact and try to recoup the money but unfortunately earnings cannot come be taxed in foreign jurisdictions so it's certainly harder than the automatic add on which happens in the uk
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    (Original post by CAPTAINSHAZAM)
    This loan system needs to be completely redone, and thought about, I and others plan on doing degrees with good salaries , because of this were forced to pay more money for our loans than we initially took out, unless we pay the full sum straight away. The problem is someone doing a degree like fashion buying, generally knows its prospects are poor in terms of salary bar the exception. Lets say they only ever earn 20k, someone who chose a sensible degree with a salary of 40k+ ends up in the longterm really paying for most of the other persons uni debt as well as their own, due to the interest rates. The interest thing is what the government uses to balance out those with poor degrees, with those with good ones.
    How would you be paying for someone else's debt?
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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    Yes a Drama degree from London met is remarkably value how ignorant of me.



    Yeah that was my point however it seems its illegal to hold such views.
    Yep, education isnt valued, otherwise people would purse degrees with good prospects and salaries, others will merely take out 50k for a uni experience, which is remarkably stupid,
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    How would you be paying for someone else's debt?
    Its not literal, and the way its been explained to me is that, those earning under the threshold will never pay, those earning way above pay alot more, over the 30 year course the higher earning student paid alot more than his intial loan was, which in essence would cover a lower earning student not paying anything for his loan.
    As you know the more you earn the more you pay back, over 30 years if someone took a 50k loan they would have paid around double that depending on how high of a salary they earnt.
 
 
 
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