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    (Original post by WoodyMKC)
    From what I've seen, meat eaters only start digging when militant vegans start with their self-righteous BS, veganism isn't on our minds generally.
    It's BS is it? This is exactly what I was referring to; thank you for proving my point.

    Different people have different experiences I suppose, but I've certainly had my fair share of digs despite having never been hostile towards meat eaters.

    At the end of the day, it's natural for people to, after discovering the appalling techniques used and often having even seen videos of these, want to inform others of the things that they personally wish they'd been told earlier. Most vegans/vegetarians don't hate meat eaters (most in fact used to eat meat themselves and thus understand your perspective), they just want to save innocent animals from getting mistreated.
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    Just a tip for anyone thinking of becoming vegetarian/vegan I HIGHLY recommend you don't cut off meat completely on the first day. Start off with something like Meat-Free Monday and just leave out meat for one day of the week. Once you feel comfortable with this, take another day off. It might be worth getting a blood test and seeing if you aren't getting enough iron, B12 etc and buy some supplements. But remember, your body is pretty good at adapting and as long as you do it gradually it'll be much easier on you and your health.

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    (Original post by TheBirder)
    The environmental problem is largely the beef industry, not the dairy industry. South American extensive cattle ranching (for beef) is probably the worst culprit.

    (I should also note that Parmesan cheese is not vegetarian, it contains calf rennet, and mozzarella often does as well.)
    Nope. The beef industry would not be economic without the dairy industry.
    If vegetarians did not eat dairy the beef industry would be uneconomic (those dairy cows end up as beef).
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    Nope. The beef industry would not be economic without the dairy industry.
    If vegetarians did not eat dairy the beef industry would be uneconomic (those dairy cows end up as beef).
    I'm fairly sure this is untrue. I can't be bothered actually searching it, but I believe beef cattle are raised as beef cattle and not as ancient butchered dairy cows. By the time dairy cows are finished with they certainly are slaughtered, but they are not used to make steaks.
    Certainly in Saudi Arabia there is a very large dairy industry within the country, however the beef is not those cows but is instead imported from South America and Australia (adding an additional carbon footprint).
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    (Original post by TheBirder)
    I'm fairly sure this is untrue. I can't be bothered actually searching it, but I believe beef cattle are raised as beef cattle and not as ancient butchered dairy cows. By the time dairy cows are finished with they certainly are slaughtered, but they are not used to make steaks.
    Certainly in Saudi Arabia there is a very large dairy industry within the country, however the beef is not those cows but is instead imported from South America and Australia (adding an additional carbon footprint).
    From Wikipedia:
    Money Source One:
    To maintain lactation, a dairy cow must be bred and produce calves. Depending on market conditions, the cow may be bred with a "dairy bull" or a "beef bull." Female calves (heifers) with dairy breeding may be kept as replacement cows for the dairy herd. If a replacement cow turns out to be a substandard producer of milk, she then goes to market and can be slaughtered for beef. Male calves can either be used later as a breeding bull or sold and used for veal or beef.

    Money Source Two:
    Domestic cows can live to 20 years; however, those raised for dairy rarely live that long, as the average cow is removed from the dairy herd around age four and marketed for beef.[9][11] In 2014, approximately 9.5% of the cattle slaughtered in the U.S. were culled dairy cows: cows that can no longer be seen as an economic asset to the dairy farm.[12]These animals may be sold due to reproductive problems or common diseases of milk cows such as mastitis and lameness.[11]

    Without meat eating the dairy industry would not be economic (its only barely economic now)
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    (Original post by hilrho)
    I mean I don't think the whole world should stop - people should be allowed to eat meat if they want to and they shouldn't if they don't want to.
    But I most definitely do commend vegetarians and vegans, I mean I could never live without meat. Especially bacon, like I've been a muslim for nearly 2 months now and im still not used to it. I even tried being vegetarian once, lasted like 3 days.
    Why did you convert to Islam?

    (Original post by K2G)
    So what exactly is the purpose of these cows and sheep etc. being there? All they do is eat and sleep all day long.
    What's the purpose of some humans then? All they do is eat(or starve) and sleep all day too.
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    (Original post by idontknowmedoyou)
    I will agree with you in the first paragraph and for the mercury levels in fish except, tuna is actually very high in mercury even research it, and its one of the most popular fish people eat. The rest does include fish like shark, swordfish. However you didn't answer my other points, guessing because you didn't have one.
    Vegetarians/vegans can get plenty of zinc from mushrooms, spinach, seeds, nuts and other veg or they could take supplements. Technically you do not need heme iron as long as you keep your iron levels high by eating iron riched foods or taking supplements if you need to. B12 can be a problem I will admit, but it can be easily overcome by again taking supplements and there are vegan foods that do have B12 (personally I don't take any supplements and I have great health). But overall at least our diets cause less/no harm to animals and are helping the planet, and we are more likely to live longer, less likely to get heart diesease etc. (the list could go on).
    Cheese and other animal products are even worse for our diets but I have given enough info.
    I did answer your other points. Those dangers you raised all stem specifically from the overconsumption of red meat. That is what causes the problems. I make a point of eating red meat three times a week at the absolute most for precisely those reasons. If you're eating white meat, you are at no greater risk of any of the things you mentioned than a vegetarian/vegan.

    Tuna shouldn't be conflated with the other 'mercury risk' fish, because it's nowhere near as bad. The CDC released a report that said a 200lb man could eat a can a day of tuna and see no adverse affects. Further, mercury (or more accurately methylmercury) levels are reduced by N-acetylcysteine, a derivative of cysteine which is primarily found in animal proteins. So tuna really isn't that high risk unless you're literally eating a tuna steak every day.

    Surely taking supplements is far from ideal though? If a diet demands that you have to take (and buy!) supplements to stay healthy, that would suggest the diet is hardly the healthiest way to sustain yourself. And I'm not saying there aren't options for vegetarians/vegans to get these minerals, I'm saying that vegetarians/vegans have been found to be regularly deficient in these three nutrients, amongst others. Which would again suggest that their diet is not ideal.

    Don't really buy the ethical argument behind it tbh. We're omnivores, we're designed to eat meat, so I'm not gonna feel bad for doing just that. And as I've said a couple times now, all the risks you're referring to are a result of red meat specifically; an omnivorous diet with predominantly/exclusively white meat is likely better for you than a vegetarian/vegan one.
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    I would like not to eat animals because I am a socialist.
    I think all men and women should be equal.
    And as a self aware animal , I think all self aware animals should be equal.
    Why should I be allowed to eat a Gorilla? Surely, on some level that is cannibalism?

    (I am Roman Catholic, so theoretically I am allowed to eat anything from Cocaine to Pet Dogs - but it doesn't make it right).
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    (Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
    I did answer your other points. Those dangers you raised all stem specifically from the overconsumption of red meat. That is what causes the problems. I make a point of eating red meat three times a week at the absolute most for precisely those reasons. If you're eating white meat, you are at no greater risk of any of the things you mentioned than a vegetarian/vegan.

    Tuna shouldn't be conflated with the other 'mercury risk' fish, because it's nowhere near as bad. The CDC released a report that said a 200lb man could eat a can a day of tuna and see no adverse affects. Further, mercury (or more accurately methylmercury) levels are reduced by N-acetylcysteine, a derivative of cysteine which is primarily found in animal proteins. So tuna really isn't that high risk unless you're literally eating a tuna steak every day.

    Surely taking supplements is far from ideal though? If a diet demands that you have to take (and buy!) supplements to stay healthy, that would suggest the diet is hardly the healthiest way to sustain yourself. And I'm not saying there aren't options for vegetarians/vegans to get these minerals, I'm saying that vegetarians/vegans have been found to be regularly deficient in these three nutrients, amongst others. Which would again suggest that their diet is not ideal.

    Don't really buy the ethical argument behind it tbh. We're omnivores, we're designed to eat meat, so I'm not gonna feel bad for doing just that. And as I've said a couple times now, all the risks you're referring to are a result of red meat specifically; an omnivorous diet with predominantly/exclusively white meat is likely better for you than a vegetarian/vegan one.
    You didn't answer the fact that white meat can contain lots of bacteria due to the fact that every time you eat chicken you're also eating actual crap, doesn't sound too nutritious to eat another animals feces? But compare meat to veg, fruit and other vegan foods, if I eat to much veg for example will I have an increased risk of cancer, heart disease and obesity, doubt it (maybe obesity if I literally eat tons but unlikely).
    You also saying taking supplements is not idea which made me laugh out loud, no jokes. You know what isn't ideal? How the animal cruelty industries are destroying the earth and hurting others. Cows must consume 16 pounds of vegetation in order to convert them into 1 pound of flesh. Raising animals for food consumes more than half of all water used in the U.S. It takes 2,500 gallons of water to produce a pound of meat but only 25 gallons to produce a pound of wheat. Producing just one hamburger uses enough fossil fuel to drive a small car 20 miles. Of all raw materials and fossil fuels used in the U.S., more than one-third are devoted to raising animals for food. A typical pig factory generates the same amount of raw waste as a city of 12,000 people. According to the Environmental Protection Agency, raising animals for food is the number-one source of water pollution. More than 80 percent of the corn we grow and more than 95 percent of the oats are fed to livestock. The world’s cattle alone consume a quantity of food equal to the caloric needs of 8.7 billion people—more than the entire human population on Earth. According to the Worldwatch Institute, “Roughly 2 of every 5 tons of grain produced in the world is fed to livestock, poultry, or fish; decreasing consumption of these products, especially of beef, could free up massive quantities of grain and reduce pressure on land.” This food could then be used to feed other humans, rather than animals people eat. Also animal farms are responsible for 73% of the ammonia released into the air. The ammonia can react with other gases in the air and cause respiratory problems and contribute to smog and acid rain. And one-third of our greenhouse gas emissions come from agriculture. I could continue but I think thats enough.
    You also said you don't really buy the ethical argument? Humans can be omnivores but you don't have to be, many people live as herbivores and as healthy as can be. Were not 'designed' to eat meat we most likely evolved as it was the easiest source of food years ago, but times have changed and its easier to be vegetarian/vegan than ever. And you say you don't feel bad? Have you seen how animals are treated in these industries, its barbaric and brutal? Lions go out and catch there own kill as they are carnivores and do what they need to do to survive. Humans eat meat for one reason, lets get real, because they like the taste and its convenient despite the fact that its rotten flesh from another animal and its bad for the world and cruel to the animal, don't you think they want to live too? When people eat dogs and **** everyone goes crazy when I defend other animals who don't have a voice people think I'm crazy? wheres the logic?
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    (Original post by ben2000)
    It's BS is it? This is exactly what I was referring to; thank you for proving my point.

    Different people have different experiences I suppose, but I've certainly had my fair share of digs despite having never been hostile towards meat eaters.

    At the end of the day, it's natural for people to, after discovering the appalling techniques used and often having even seen videos of these, want to inform others of the things that they personally wish they'd been told earlier. Most vegans/vegetarians don't hate meat eaters (most in fact used to eat meat themselves and thus understand your perspective), they just want to save innocent animals from getting mistreated.
    Yes, self-righteousness is BS. I didn't say veganism is BS, please re-read my post.

    Sorry, but I disagree. I've lost count of the amount of times that I've seen vegans and vegetarians take a "Oh, so you know what's happening but you still eat meat? You're disgusting, you're going to die of heart disease because of your choices" attitude. Of course, like anything, it's not as if all veggies are like this hence why in my first post I said I don't have a problem with them, but when they start with that crap then yeah, we've got a problem. Two wrongs don't make a right, just because a handful of meat eaters like to give vegans a hard time that doesn't warranted frowning upon meat eaters as bad people in general.
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    Yes, meat eating is wasteful and in humane. But clearly a very difficult culture and habit to break. Maybe in 500 more years.
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    From Wikipedia:
    Money Source One:
    To maintain lactation, a dairy cow must be bred and produce calves. Depending on market conditions, the cow may be bred with a "dairy bull" or a "beef bull." Female calves (heifers) with dairy breeding may be kept as replacement cows for the dairy herd. If a replacement cow turns out to be a substandard producer of milk, she then goes to market and can be slaughtered for beef. Male calves can either be used later as a breeding bull or sold and used for veal or beef.

    Money Source Two:
    Domestic cows can live to 20 years; however, those raised for dairy rarely live that long, as the average cow is removed from the dairy herd around age four and marketed for beef.[9][11] In 2014, approximately 9.5% of the cattle slaughtered in the U.S. were culled dairy cows: cows that can no longer be seen as an economic asset to the dairy farm.[12]These animals may be sold due to reproductive problems or common diseases of milk cows such as mastitis and lameness.[11]

    Without meat eating the dairy industry would not be economic (its only barely economic now)
    Your own source says 9.5% of cows slaughtered are dairy cows. Lets cut down beef consumption by 90.5% then. As I have mentioned every time, the big problem is the beef industry, where huge areas of land are used for cows to just make beef. The beef from the dairy industry is such a small percentage anyway as your source shows that it's almost incidental.
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    I've said this time and time again, but I find many more people obnoxiously complaining about militant vegans than actual militant vegans. I mean just look at the first page of this thread. There are about ten people complaining and possibly, arguably, one vegan trying to convince people in a very gentle way.
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    (Original post by idontknowmedoyou)
    You didn't answer the fact that white meat can contain lots of bacteria due to the fact that every time you eat chicken you're also eating actual crap, doesn't sound too nutritious to eat another animals feces? But compare meat to veg, fruit and other vegan foods, if I eat to much veg for example will I have an increased risk of cancer, heart disease and obesity, doubt it (maybe obesity if I literally eat tons but unlikely).
    You also saying taking supplements is not idea which made me laugh out loud, no jokes. You know what isn't ideal? How the animal cruelty industries are destroying the earth and hurting others. Cows must consume 16 pounds of vegetation in order to convert them into 1 pound of flesh. Raising animals for food consumes more than half of all water used in the U.S. It takes 2,500 gallons of water to produce a pound of meat but only 25 gallons to produce a pound of wheat. Producing just one hamburger uses enough fossil fuel to drive a small car 20 miles. Of all raw materials and fossil fuels used in the U.S., more than one-third are devoted to raising animals for food. A typical pig factory generates the same amount of raw waste as a city of 12,000 people. According to the Environmental Protection Agency, raising animals for food is the number-one source of water pollution. More than 80 percent of the corn we grow and more than 95 percent of the oats are fed to livestock. The world’s cattle alone consume a quantity of food equal to the caloric needs of 8.7 billion people—more than the entire human population on Earth. According to the Worldwatch Institute, “Roughly 2 of every 5 tons of grain produced in the world is fed to livestock, poultry, or fish; decreasing consumption of these products, especially of beef, could free up massive quantities of grain and reduce pressure on land.” This food could then be used to feed other humans, rather than animals people eat. Also animal farms are responsible for 73% of the ammonia released into the air. The ammonia can react with other gases in the air and cause respiratory problems and contribute to smog and acid rain. And one-third of our greenhouse gas emissions come from agriculture. I could continue but I think thats enough.
    You also said you don't really buy the ethical argument? Humans can be omnivores but you don't have to be, many people live as herbivores and as healthy as can be. Were not 'designed' to eat meat we most likely evolved as it was the easiest source of food years ago, but times have changed and its easier to be vegetarian/vegan than ever. And you say you don't feel bad? Have you seen how animals are treated in these industries, its barbaric and brutal? Lions go out and catch there own kill as they are carnivores and do what they need to do to survive. Humans eat meat for one reason, lets get real, because they like the taste and its convenient despite the fact that its rotten flesh from another animal and its bad for the world and cruel to the animal, don't you think they want to live too? When people eat dogs and **** everyone goes crazy when I defend other animals who don't have a voice people think I'm crazy? wheres the logic?
    What kind of an argument is that?! I presume you wash food before you cook with it? Washing and cooking the food before you eat it largely solves the problem with regards bacteria in my experience. Once again, increased risk of heart disease, obesity and cancer have been linked to overconsumption of red meat and processed meat. There is absolutely nothing to suggest white meat carries any such danger, and indeed the studies all say that white meat is incredibly good for us.

    Taking supplements isn't ideal. It's not cheap, and it pretty much confirms that a vegetarian/vegan diet is less healthy than an omnivorous diet based on white meats. You're admitting that a vegetarian or vegan diet does not give you all the nutrients you need to be healthy, whereas an omnivorous diet does.

    I don't buy the animal cruelty argument one bit. It's not cruel to live off of your natural prey. That's a fact of life, it's nature. By your argument, we shouldn't build cities because these involve clearing land to make room, which definitely would result in the deaths of thousands of animals, and we could always live in huts instead. And cars are most certainly out of the question, just think of all the animals that have died because we have automobiles; what was wrong with horse-drawn carts anyway? Your argument is specious.

    I actually don't disagree with you about the huge damage that cows have on the Earth in all kinds of ways, but you'll notice again that this is red meat. Last I checked, fish, poultry and the like are having nothing like so damaging an effect. So whilst you've presented a great many arguments against red meat - which I don't dispute for a moment - you've put forward little and less to dissuade someone from white meat.

    You're right, we don't have to be omnivores. It's just cheaper, more convenient and better for your health, presuming you steer clear of red meat. Your point about the animals wanting to live; I presume you've never killed a spider, fly or any other insect then? Or is it only animals of a certain size you sympathise with? I hope you always watch where you're walking, lest you commit genocide on a vast scale against the poor innocent ants among us. This is another specious argument.

    Also, no wonder you're revolted by meat. If I was being served rotting flesh, I'd be a veggie in no time too!

    P.S. Chill out dude, it's a debate about a difference of opinion, no need to get quite so aeriated.
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    (Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
    I've said this time and time again, but I find many more people obnoxiously complaining about militant vegans than actual militant vegans. I mean just look at the first page of this thread. There are about ten people complaining and possibly, arguably, one vegan trying to convince people in a very gentle way.
    While I am a meat-eater myself, I acknowledge that vegetarianism/veganism is the more ethical option. Ideally I want to become a vegetarian at some point, but I can't right now because a) I like the taste of meat and b) I'm just used to it. Nevertheless I admire vegetarians and readily concede they're a lot more morally consistent than me.

    It's interesting to see meat-eaters' preemptive attacks on militant vegans. I'm guessing they do it because deep down on some level, they know that consuming animals is wrong. Most of them don't want to face the fact that they are contributing to the torture and slaughter of billions of animals, so they get overly defensive about their diets.
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    (Original post by TheBirder)
    Your own source says 9.5% of cows slaughtered are dairy cows. Lets cut down beef consumption by 90.5% then. As I have mentioned every time, the big problem is the beef industry, where huge areas of land are used for cows to just make beef. The beef from the dairy industry is such a small percentage anyway as your source shows that it's almost incidental.
    Sorry but you did not add in the calves from MONEY MAKING ONE.
    tut tut.
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    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
    While I am a meat-eater myself, I acknowledge that vegetarianism/veganism is the more ethical option. Ideally I want to become a vegetarian at some point, but I can't right now because a) I like the taste of meat and b) I'm just used to it. Nevertheless I admire vegetarians and readily concede they're a lot more morally consistent than me.

    It's interesting to see meat-eaters' preemptive attacks on militant vegans. I'm guessing they do it because deep down on some level, they know that consuming animals is wrong. Most of them don't want to face the fact that they are contributing to the torture and slaughter of billions of animals, so they get overly defensive about their diets.
    1st paragraph: Fair enough.

    2nd paragraph: Yeah, that's more or less what I would have thought their motivations are - I just didn't say it outright because I really doubt they want to hear it! I guess once you've had a guilt-inducing conversation with a well-meaning vegetarian, it's a lot easier to blame that guilt on a guilt-tripping vegetarian than to admit any culpability yourself. And I say that as an imperfect person who probably does exactly the same thing with other people and other vices in my life.
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    (Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
    What kind of an argument is that?! I presume you wash food before you cook with it? Washing and cooking the food before you eat it largely solves the problem with regards bacteria in my experience. Once again, increased risk of heart disease, obesity and cancer have been linked to overconsumption of red meat and processed meat. There is absolutely nothing to suggest white meat carries any such danger, and indeed the studies all say that white meat is incredibly good for us.

    Taking supplements isn't ideal. It's not cheap, and it pretty much confirms that a vegetarian/vegan diet is less healthy than an omnivorous diet based on white meats. You're admitting that a vegetarian or vegan diet does not give you all the nutrients you need to be healthy, whereas an omnivorous diet does.

    I don't buy the animal cruelty argument one bit. It's not cruel to live off of your natural prey. That's a fact of life, it's nature. By your argument, we shouldn't build cities because these involve clearing land to make room, which definitely would result in the deaths of thousands of animals, and we could always live in huts instead. And cars are most certainly out of the question, just think of all the animals that have died because we have automobiles; what was wrong with horse-drawn carts anyway? Your argument is specious.

    I actually don't disagree with you about the huge damage that cows have on the Earth in all kinds of ways, but you'll notice again that this is red meat. Last I checked, fish, poultry and the like are having nothing like so damaging an effect. So whilst you've presented a great many arguments against red meat - which I don't dispute for a moment - you've put forward little and less to dissuade someone from white meat.

    You're right, we don't have to be omnivores. It's just cheaper, more convenient and better for your health, presuming you steer clear of red meat. Your point about the animals wanting to live; I presume you've never killed a spider, fly or any other insect then? Or is it only animals of a certain size you sympathise with? I hope you always watch where you're walking, lest you commit genocide on a vast scale against the poor innocent ants among us. This is another specious argument.

    Also, no wonder you're revolted by meat. If I was being served rotting flesh, I'd be a veggie in no time too!

    P.S. Chill out dude, it's a debate about a difference of opinion, no need to get quite so aeriated.
    White meat carries danger to the environment, the only good thing chicken, and other white meats can provide is protein which most people get enough from veg any way, so its unnecessary, just damage to the environment for nothing.
    Most vegans or vegetarians don't even have to take supplements? I don't and I am healthier then I have ever been? I believe a vegan/ vegetarian diet is much more healthy, I am living proof. I lost over 10 pounds when I went vegan, I wasn't fat but I had unnecessary fats from meat, and cheese or dairy products. I also used to have really bad acne since I went vegan my face is basically clear? I cba putting in the 100's of points and studies that show the benefits of being vegan, but you should research because you don't know a lot. Even my dad (and most meat eaters) who eats a ton of meat says he knows a vegan diet is healthier, it cuts out all the fats and stuff you do not need.
    Thank you for agreeing on the red meat, and while poultry, fish are not nearly as bad to the environment they do still cause damage. For example factory poultry manure contains heavy metals. The 5,100 tons of poultry manure produced daily in Arkansas dumps into the environment, each day, 3,100 pounds of manganese, 3,300 pounds of iron, 540 pounds of copper, 3,600 pounds of zinc, and 300 pounds of arsenic. Arsenic is "a known carcinogenic agent that when inhaled can cause cancer in humans, particularly lung cancer". Factory poultry manure exposes fish, humans, and wildlife to diseases not normally found in the environment. When earthworms ingest soil containing chicken droppings infected with the cecal worm larvae that carry blackhead disease, wild turkeys, grouse, quail and other wild birds who eat these worms get sick and die.
    Fish are not necessarily bad for the environment, however the damage it does can be seen on this website http://inhabitat.com/35-facts-that-w...at-fish-again/ .
    Lastly you say "its nature", how is "nature" animals living in crowded factory farms being abused continuously. Baby calfs get ripped away from their mothers and killed while the mother milk (thats meat to feed her baby not us, were not baby cows???) is stolen from her. Chicken get put in the tiniest cages where they have to actually crush each other to move around while they are given drugs so that they grow bigger so that humans have more to eat. While they are in these cages their eggs are taken and chickens are meant to lay 12 eggs per year but because humans just needed more for no reason (eggs literally are not healthy at all btw) they have been genetically modified to lay 300 eggs. Theres so much more I could write, but I would like to ask how is it nature? A lion for example is a carnivore has to eat animals to survive, they go out hunt their food and eat it all themselves, that is nature. Humans doing all of that is not nature its unnecessary abuse and it is cruel. Watch videos if you don't believe it, theres evidence. I bet you or many other meat eaters would go out find a cow and kill it with your bare hands and eat it raw like a lion? No because its not our 'nature'.
    And personally I actually don't kill spiders, I release them outside, same goes for any bug really. And if I step on an ant by accident which isn't that likely as they are so small they crawl through gaps and stuff that is obviously not intentional? Like if you hit an animal with your car and you didn't see it, its sad but not evil?
    And you're point about the rotting meat, things rot when they are dead, we do, so do cows, pigs, fish, etc. Its been debated whether it rots in your body or not, but its dead so it is rotting before you cook it. Also you didnt answer my point about dogs, would you eat a dog? Doubt it, neither would I (obvs) but theres no difference between a dog and a pig? Sorry if I sound angry I'm not lol, didn't realise I sounded so mad
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    Sorry but you did not add in the calves from MONEY MAKING ONE.
    tut tut.
    I'm fairly sure that 9.5% was including all cows slaughtered from dairy farms. And even if not, that's still not the point.
    The amount of methane production in a calf's lifetime is much smaller and the whole idea of massive areas of rainforest chopped down for cattle (etc.) has nothing to with dairy cattle.
    Furthermore, a calf cannot be slaughtered to produce beef, it is veal, and I had a conversation with someone once and apparently the calves from the dairy industry are usually not grown and slaughtered for human consumption but are slaughtered very young and wasted or used for things like dog food, not steaks.
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    I don't believe in telling people what to do but I personally have been moving away from consuming animal products in the last few years. I try and find ways to replace animal products with other products (e.g. chicken with tofu). I have noticed a significant improvement in my overall physical and mental health.
 
 
 
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