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    (Original post by monkcatcher)
    I only really found out about it properly today
    Did you know about agender? and 'gender neutral'?

    There's a whole world of crazy out there mate
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    (Original post by monkcatcher)
    Do you think 'gender fluid' is "real"?

    Personally I think it is non-existent due to you can't be, 'Gender fluid'
    it's real almost by definition

    since it is a gender identity, it is not defined by sex (or even necessarily by gender)

    if somebody feels like their gender changes with time, then they are gender fluid. that is the definition of gender fluid. since there exist individuals who feel that their gender changes with time, gender fluid individuals exist. qed.
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    (Original post by Wellzi)
    It's my belief that all humans with XY chromosomes should be considered men, and all those with XX chromosomes should be referred to as women.
    How do you categorise intersex?


    I believe this to be a perfectly sane belief judging by what has been the norm throughout previous history, and I will therefore use male pronouns for males, and female pronouns for females.
    Although you can legally change your gender, you can't swap out your chromosomes, so in my mind as a perfectly sane average person, you can't change your sex, as that's biologically impossible.
    I agree with the latter, and I actually think the world would be a better place if we didn't talk about gender. However, I also think sex is made to matter far more often than it really should, and gender-neutral pronouns might go some way towards fixing that. There are some situations where sex is actually important (e.g. for medical reasons), but most of the time when we emphasise a distinction between sexes for some reason it serves no real purpose. For example, why must salutations vary depending on the sex of the recipient? Why 'Mr' if you happen to have a Y chromosome and 'Ms' if you don't? Who the **** cares what your chromosomes are or what your hormone profile looks like? It just shouldn't matter. It's not of the remotest relevance.
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    As far as I'm concerned you can be whatever you want to be as long as you don't subject me to unsolicited lengthy explanations of it.
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    Yes but that is purely because people have classed things into masculine and feminine.

    Without a set of psychological criteria, it'd only come down to whether you'd like a penis or a vagina. But when people say 'blue = male', 'video games = male', 'cooking = female', 'nurses = female', 'skirt = female', 'fancy boys = female' and so on, it's very easy to be gender-fluid.
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    Why is real in inverted commas?
    Spoiler:
    Show
    I'm sorry but it's really bugging me...


    I think this gender fluid thing is pushing it tbh. But, I wouldn't know, as I haven't experienced it
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    gender is society's impression of different sexes and expressions, therefore there is no way it can be binary and therefore one CAN be gender fluid
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    If by gender you mean the social construct, yes I don't see why a man couldn't identify with traits usually considered feminine or vice versa for a woman. Biological sex is a different matter because it's genetic and you can't really change whether you were born with a penis or a vagina barring surgery and a lot of hormone therapy.

    Someone correct me if I misunderstood this, I'm a bit shaky on it
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    If by gender you mean the social construct, yes I don't see why a man couldn't identify with traits usually considered feminine or vice versa for a woman. Biological sex is a different matter because it's genetic and you can't really change whether you were born with a penis or a vagina barring surgery and a lot of hormone therapy.

    Someone correct me if I misunderstood this, I'm a bit shaky on it
    http://gender.wikia.com/wiki/Gender_Fluid

    Sort of explains it.

    Raises more questions than it answers IMO :dontknow:
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    TIL: surprisingly some people still don't realise that there's a difference between biological sex and the social construct of gender.

    I don't know too much about gender fluidity per se, but going from the phrase alone it sounds like defining yourself by how masculine/feminine you feel when you wake up in the morning. Which sounds inconvenient, to say the least. Especially if you're liberal enough to out yourself as gender fluid yet restrict yourself to basing your social liberalism on such archaic notions in the first. Sounds very confusing. But I might be wrong.

    Agendered, I get. Because someone has chosen to reject all notions of masculinity/femininity (ie; non-binary), and it's solid. But "fluidity" suggests flitting between the two. Which, as mentioned above, sounds needlessly confusing both to themselves and to other people (especially if they're the sort of person to flip tables when someone calls them by the wrong pronoun. Unless they answer the question of how they're feeling today by "feminine/masculine", how do you know what to call them?)

    I dunno. I'm happy for settling for whatever makes other people happy, but deciding what gender you feel like on a whim sounds a bit self-involved and egoistic, not to mention a mind**** for those around you.

    Edit: however. Rejecting social constructs and deciding that you want to buy a pink car instead of a blue car isn't gender fluidity. It's just not adhering to social attitudes. IMO, a woman who plays video games isn't gender fluid; she's merely someone who enjoys playing video games.

    Extrapolate from those two examples and apply them to any activity/gender "restriction" as you see fit, and it works pretty much across the board.
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    (Original post by hezzlington)
    http://gender.wikia.com/wiki/Gender_Fluid

    Sort of explains it.

    Raises more questions than it answers IMO :dontknow:
    Thank you for that, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned anything about an attack helicopter yet
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    (Original post by Drunk Punx)

    Edit: however. Rejecting social constructs and deciding that you want to buy a pink car instead of a blue car isn't gender fluidity. It's just not adhering to social attitudes. IMO, a woman who plays video games isn't gender fluid; she's merely someone who enjoys playing video games.
    Given that gender, as we are usually informed, is a social construct, I'm not sure I fully grasp the distinction here.
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    a someone who becomes feminine sometimes is not masculine, as that is the opposite of masculinity.
    gender fluid is just pussy liberal **** that is more towards femininity and loserness.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Given that gender, as we are usually informed, is a social construct, I'm not sure I fully grasp the distinction here.
    Little Toy Gun described it as "Without a set of psychological criteria, it'd only come down to whether you'd like a penis or a vagina. But when people say 'blue = male', 'video games = male', 'cooking = female', 'nurses = female', 'skirt = female', 'fancy boys = female' and so on, it's very easy to be gender-fluid."

    My edit (being the bit you quoted) was sort of a reply to that, insomuch as I disagree that gender fluidity concerns where your interests lie. Because if that was the case, then most people would be gender fluid surely? I'd wager that everyone has interests that overlap the lines that define what activities are masculine and what are feminine.

    Yet people choose to actively describe themselves as gender fluid, which means they're either making a big deal out of something that is so common it's practically nothing or it goes deeper than (as an example) a womans' interest in rugby (which would be the distinction, in my eyes anyway).

    I hasten to add that I skim-read LTGs post, which is why I only focused on interests in my edit instead of the other social perceptions they listed ("nurses = female", etc).

    Unless I've misunderstood your post?
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    No. I fully support the LGBT community however I feel the non-binary movement borders way too much on mental illness than sexuality with many of the supporters exhibiting what I would say (Disclaimer: No psychological knowledge, just general knowledge of symptoms) are symptoms of multiple personalities & schizophrenia.
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    (Original post by Ladymusiclover)
    Liberalism guys. I want to be gender neutral.
    its called non binary
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    I don't think gender fluid actually exists. I think its a label for people who don't really identify as girl or boy. So they create a new term to just change identity or search for one. People can dress in both men and women's clothes all they want and act like masculine and feminine but they're still one gender.

    Some men act feminine and might wear makeup but they're still men. Some women act butch and masculine but they're still women. People don't have ro fit society's gender roles but it doesn't mean they can switch from one gender then the next and do the switchroos on demand.
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    (Original post by monkcatcher)
    Do you think 'gender fluid' is "real"?

    Personally I think it is non-existent due to you can't be, 'Gender fluid'
    I don't know what it is and too lazy to google so I don't know why I'm commenting
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    (Original post by Drunk Punx)
    Little Toy Gun described it as "Without a set of psychological criteria, it'd only come down to whether you'd like a penis or a vagina. But when people say 'blue = male', 'video games = male', 'cooking = female', 'nurses = female', 'skirt = female', 'fancy boys = female' and so on, it's very easy to be gender-fluid."

    My edit (being the bit you quoted) was sort of a reply to that, insomuch as I disagree that gender fluidity concerns where your interests lie. Because if that was the case, then most people would be gender fluid surely? I'd wager that everyone has interests that overlap the lines that define what activities are masculine and what are feminine.

    Yet people choose to actively describe themselves as gender fluid, which means they're either making a big deal out of something that is so common it's practically nothing or it goes deeper than (as an example) a womans' interest in rugby (which would be the distinction, in my eyes anyway).

    I hasten to add that I skim-read LTGs post, which is why I only focused on interests in my edit instead of the other social perceptions they listed ("nurses = female", etc).

    Unless I've misunderstood your post?
    I think part of the confusion here may be due to an extra layer of semantics that's mostly been skipped over in this thread. If we recognise the distinction between gender and sex, then not adhering to the social roles expected of your sex in the way you described does define you as transgender. But a further distinction is often drawn between 'gender' and 'gender identity', where the latter is essentially what you personally think of your own gender. For example, someone might argue that whether or not people think they best match the social roles of females, their sense of self is completely female and so 'female' is their gender identity, whatever their gender is. The concept seems to amount to a way to ensure that individuals are never wrong about their gender identity by defining it to mean whatever you think of your own gender.

    So in this sense, most people are not gender fluid because their inner sense of gender does not vary with time.


    Personally this whole thing puts me in a rather awkward position as I've never had an inner conception of my gender since I had no idea the concept was at all distinct from sex until last year. Nothing has magically appeared since learning that there is a distinction, yet I feel uncomfortable claiming to be gender neutral or agender or whatever.
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    Just take a look at Eddie Izzard :yep:
 
 
 
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