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    (Original post by nellythumper)
    How exactly can you provide roads in a free market? Would there be different roads from different companies next to each other? Tolls at each traffic light?
    Housing associations can take care of it, people can do it themselves and/or a company may wish to sponsor it if they heavily rely on such a route.

    (Original post by Bornblue)
    What a bizarre analogy.
    How can our police force and roads be funded without tax?
    Go one tell me in detail.
    People can either protect themselves, hire someone else to do so or rely on the local community for mutual protection.
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    (Original post by brainhuman)
    I have yet to see a better model.

    Not to mention that on some moral level don't you feel it necessary to help out those less fortunate than us? And no, not every poor person is lazy and thus undeserving...

    Also, if everyone were rich, who would do the menial jobs? Robots? Well maybe in a few centuries, but this is as much a theoretical discussion as a practical one.
    Of course we need to help those less fortunate than us, the way we allow that is by establishing worker co-operatives, such as has been outlined by the UK Labour Party, where workers have a say in their companies and own the company instead of greedy capitalists who avoid tax. The capitalists are the lazy ones, they earn vast amounts of money, on top of what they have inherited, with very little work and demonize those below them.
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    (Original post by nellythumper)
    Of course we need to help those less fortunate than us, the way we allow that is by establishing worker co-operatives, such as has been outlined by the UK Labour Party, where workers have a say in their companies and own the company instead of greedy capitalists who avoid tax. The capitalists are the lazy ones, they earn vast amounts of money, on top of what they have inherited, with very little work and demonize those below them.
    That is actually very true. The gap between the earnings of (C-level) managers and the workers in a company have increased and increased over time. For no apparent reason.
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    (Original post by Truth2u)
    This explains:

    http://capitalism.org/taxation/how-w...hout-taxation/

    Also read the book: "Adam Smith: Wealth of Nations"

    Adam smith created Capitalism.
    Did you fall asleep when reading the 'Wealth of Nations'? Adam Smith himself explained that the invisible hand will lead to inequality and will not guarantee a decent standard of living for all of us.
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    (Original post by brainhuman)
    That is actually very true. The gap between the earnings of (C-level) managers and the workers in a company have increased and increased over time. For no apparent reason.
    Exactly, oxfam released data showing 62 people own as much wealth as half of the entire rest of the world's population, 3.5 billion people.
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    (Original post by otester)
    Housing associations can take care of it, people can do it themselves and/or a company may wish to sponsor it if they heavily rely on such a route.



    People can either protect themselves, hire someone else to do so or rely on the local community for mutual protection.
    Not sure what your idea of 'sponsor' is, if you're expecting capitalists to pay for roads out of their own pocket then you are mistaken and furthermore you are treating basic roads as a charitable donation that rich people can choose to pay for which is ethically abhorrent. If you are suggesting that working people pay to use them, then that is equally cruel. When you say 'people can do it themselves', do you mean people can, on their own, buy all the equipment and skills to build one road for themselves? That is far too deluded to contemplate.
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    (Original post by otester)
    Housing associations can take care of it, people can do it themselves and/or a company may wish to sponsor it if they heavily rely on such a route.



    People can either protect themselves, hire someone else to do so or rely on the local community for mutual protection.
    So you think we should have no police force?
    How can people 'protect themselves'? What if you're small, or weak or disabled?

    What's the point in having no tax If there's no police force or judicial system to protect you?
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    (Original post by nellythumper)
    Not sure what your idea of 'sponsor' is, if you're expecting capitalists to pay for roads out of their own pocket then you are mistaken and furthermore you are treating basic roads as a charitable donation that rich people can choose to pay for which is ethically abhorrent. If you are suggesting that working people pay to use them, then that is equally cruel. When you say 'people can do it themselves', do you mean people can, on their own, buy all the equipment and skills to build one road for themselves? That is far too deluded to contemplate.
    Their ideology is an inherent contradiction. We shouldn't have taxes because taxation is theft, however if we don't have them then all those so opposed to taxation will for some reason volunteer to pay tax...
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    (Original post by Truth2u)
    We should Capitalise there countries too. Good point.
    their*
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    (Original post by nellythumper)
    Not sure what your idea of 'sponsor' is, if you're expecting capitalists to pay for roads out of their own pocket then you are mistaken and furthermore you are treating basic roads as a charitable donation that rich people can choose to pay for which is ethically abhorrent. If you are suggesting that working people pay to use them, then that is equally cruel. When you say 'people can do it themselves', do you mean people can, on their own, buy all the equipment and skills to build one road for themselves? That is far too deluded to contemplate.
    Do you have an argument that goes beyond emotions/insults or am I wasting my time replying to you anymore?

    (Original post by Bornblue)
    So you think we should have no police force?
    How can people 'protect themselves'? What if you're small, or weak or disabled?

    What's the point in having no tax If there's no police force or judicial system to protect you?
    I think that what ever we have should be voluntary/voluntarily funded.
    When it comes to self-defence there are an array of tools to choose from.
    For those incapable of defending themselves they can rely on others or purchase protection.
    The point is that the individual best decides how to protect themselves and judiciary can be handled at a local level without violence/coercion in order to fund it.
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    (Original post by nellythumper)
    Pretty sure this guy is a troll, how could one 'make capitalism'?
    He designed it 300 years ago....
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    It takes a very special kind of silly to believe that one side has only pros, and the other side has only cons.



    If you ever believe you have all the answers, that probably just means you're too narrow minded to have any.

    Extreme capitalism tends to lend it's self to disadvantaging those who are born poor. Hence America.
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    (Original post by Truth2u)
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Charging international companies? Wait you mean like a TAX?
    Money is not created out of nothing, it relates to there being something worth that amount in gold etc.
    If you print loads of it, as Germany did in the 1920s/30s you get hyper inflation as it becomes worthless.

    Your suggestions for how we fund services are all laughable. They are:
    1.) Voluntary tax - Unrealistic, why would the people who least want to pay tax volunteer to do it?
    2.) Banks - Where are they going to get the money from?
    3.) Tourism - Of course, because tourism generates enough to fund all our public services...
    4.) Printing money - not viable, would lead to hyper inflation if we were printing such huge sums.

    Your only sensible suggestion...is tax.
    However you try and shift it, the reality is we at least need a minimal amount of tax to fund and run essential public services like roads, police, schools, hospitals, military, judicial system, government etc. Without them we could have no order and no society.
    You fail to understand totally how economics works, like them planks at no10, that are running this country into the ground using a economic model that generates no wealth and a system that rewards laziness at the working classes expense.

    And to put the icing on the cake you are paying taxes which goes to the military that bombs every country in the world while letting the enemy's they create into the country thus creating more division and chaos, so that they can rule over you in your confusion.

    Also they are turning the country into a repressive police state under the lie "its for you own protection"
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    (Original post by nellythumper)
    I think I'm wasting my time replying to you, I asked you to elaborate and you could not. People can draw their own conclusions. Asking you to explain what you meant is not emotional and neither is questioning the disgraceful levels of wealth inequality caused by capitalism.
    At least it generates wealth, socialism is government theft.
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    (Original post by Truth2u)
    You fail to understand totally how economics works, like them planks at no10, that are running this country into the ground using a economic model that generates no wealth and a system that rewards laziness at the working classes expense.

    And to put the icing on the cake you are paying taxes which goes to the military that bombs every country in the world while letting the enemy's they create into the country thus creating more division and chaos, so that they can rule over you in your confusion.

    Also they are turning the country into a repressive police state under the lie "its for you own protection"
    Yes, the system encourages the laziness of the capitalist. How can you expect people to work when there are very few jobs and the ones that are available pay hardly anything.

    Micro economic theory is generally uncertain but one certainty is that incentives are more effective than disincentives, therefore, it is far better to encourage work than to remove the safety net allowing people to survive.
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    (Original post by otester)
    Do you have an argument that goes beyond emotions/insults or am I wasting my time replying to you anymore?



    I think that what ever we have should be voluntary/voluntarily funded.
    When it comes to self-defence there are an array of tools to choose from.
    For those incapable of defending themselves they can rely on others or purchase protection.
    The point is that the individual best decides how to protect themselves and judiciary can be handled at a local level without violence/coercion in order to fund it.
    I think I'm wasting my time replying to you, I asked you to elaborate and you could not. People can draw their own conclusions. Asking you to explain what you meant is not emotional and neither is questioning the disgraceful levels of wealth inequality caused by capitalism.
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    Capitalism: Where one country and their allies exploit poor countries economically so that thousands of people starve...

    Socialism: Where those exploited by economic imperialism can afford food for everyone and provide education for all...
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    (Original post by nellythumper)
    Yes, the system encourages the laziness of the capitalist. How can you expect people to work when there are very few jobs and the ones that are available pay hardly anything.

    Micro economic theory is generally uncertain but one certainty is that incentives are more effective than disincentives, therefore, it is far better to encourage work than to remove the safety net allowing people to survive.
    The concept is simple and sound why Capitalism is far superior.

    Capitalism works on the basis of "positive reinforcement". There is always something to strive for. You feel rewarded because you own, your house etc..

    Socialism kills desire because there is nothing to strive for and you dont own anything, you rent a house etc..
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    (Original post by otester)
    Housing associations can take care of it, people can do it themselves and/or a company may wish to sponsor it if they heavily rely on such a route.



    People can either protect themselves, hire someone else to do so or rely on the local community for mutual protection.
    Sounds dangerously socialist.
 
 
 
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