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B973 - Franchise (Extension) Bill 2016 watch

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    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    So you're saying 16 year olds are young enough to potentially sacrifice their lives but don't have the brains to make an informed decision on how to vote? Your phrase 'I'm completely against democracy' concerns me. If everything in this country became meritocratic, we would just be a dictatorship.
    Yes, of course they are. The two actions require a completely different set of dispositions and the subset that is ready for military service is very limited, yet you argue that all 16 years old children should be empowered by having the right to vote.

    I suggest you consult the dictionary at the very least.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Oh, so because less than 10% can vote in a certain way with the logic being used the other 90% should too?
    Why should the 10% who live somewhere where the age of majority is effectively 16 be forced to wait a further two years to be sble to elect their sovereign parliament?
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    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    Why should the 10% who live somewhere where the age of majority is effectively 16 be forced to wait a further two years to be sble to elect their sovereign parliament?
    To generate Democratic parity?

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Oh, so because less than 10% can vote in a certain way with the logic being used the other 90% should too?



    Once again, how do I claim back my more abstractly? taxes paid before I was 16, or I suppose better would be to ask how one would do so

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    You go into your bank and tell them you're still a student before you turn 16 (you'll need some evidence), then tell them each academic year.

    Or are you meaning the taxes as in VAT?
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    (Original post by Andy98)
    You go into your bank and tell them you're still a student before you turn 16 (you'll need some evidence), then tell them each academic year.

    Or are you meaning the taxes as in VAT?
    At least somebody has finally cottoned on to the fact that about half of the tax paid by individuals is not from working.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    At least somebody has finally cottoned on to the fact that about half of the tax paid by individuals is not from working.

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    Indeed
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    No, as is clear from TSR, lots of children are unaware of what political parties support, do not understand consequences of policies, do not evaluate the policies being proposed, and are economic ignoramuses. Proposing political education in school to help people make an informed decision logically will not work because all teaching of politics has to be from a political stance, teaching politics cannot be neutral. The politics needing to be taught is not the workings of Parliament, it is not what policies each party supports, but the impacts of each policy a party proposes. The impacts will always have counter arguments around them, there will have to be a decision made when to stop rebutting rebuttal, when to stop informing of possible consequences of a policy, and which information to believe when finding what the impacts are. Individuals should analyse policies in detail before voting, however, the individuals who analyse policies are the individuals who have an interest in politics: an interest cannot be taught, an interest is a naturally occurring phenomenon that is unexplained.
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    Nay for two reasons Corbyn and the Green Party
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    To generate Democratic parity?
    Which could equally be generated as suggested in this bill.
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    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    Which could equally be generated as suggested in this bill.
    But by the very metrics your using should the parity be according to the 90pc and not the 10pc?

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    But by the very metrics your using should the parity be according to the 90pc and not the 10pc?
    In my view the most important thing is that people are not disenfranchised.

    I would also be open to extending the privileges held by Scotland's 16-year-olds to the rest of the UK.
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    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    In my view the most important thing is that people are not disenfranchised.

    I would also be open to extending the privileges held by Scotland's 16-year-olds to the rest of the UK.
    So why exactly are you not arguing for voting rights from birth, why is it that a 16 year old should be able to vote but not a 15 year old? 15 not 14, 14 not 13...1 not 0?

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    Institute a voting exam now!
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    That would be a good idea if individuals from higher socio-economic backgrounds were excluded from the exam because individuals from higher socio-economic backgrounds are more valuable in society.
    Are you suggesting that individuals from higher socio-economic backgrounds ought not be able to vote?
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    (Original post by tengentoppa)
    16 year olds do not have the maturity to make such a decision. The average 16 year old does not have the slightest political nous.

    This bill, like the mass PM one, has nothing to do with democracy and everything with trying to get labour elected on the back of the unbothered and the uninformed, with whom they have broad appeal.
    Based on what? Not all 16 year olds sit in watching Jersey Shore, at 16 people can grasp the concept of public spending. Your only argument is presumably because they vote for social values, rather than economic ones, which would make them tend to vote liberally. This is a backward generalisation right here.

    And of course, nothing says "democracy" like restricting the rights of certain people to vote!
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    No, as is clear from TSR, lots of children are unaware of what political parties support, do not understand consequences of policies, do not evaluate the policies being proposed, and are economic ignoramuses. Proposing political education in school to help people make an informed decision logically will not work because all teaching of politics has to be from a political stance, teaching politics cannot be neutral. The politics needing to be taught is not the workings of Parliament, [b]it is not what policies each party supports, but the impacts of each policy a party proposes. The impacts will always have counter arguments around them, there will have to be a decision made when to stop rebutting rebuttal, when to stop informing of possible consequences of a policy, and which information to believe when finding what the impacts are. Individuals should analyse policies in detail before voting, [/b[however, the individuals who analyse policies are the individuals who have an interest in politics: an interest cannot be taught, an interest is a naturally occurring phenomenon that is unexplained.
    This doesn't even happen for many ADULTS.
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    (Original post by hazzer1998)
    Nay for two reasons Corbyn and the Green Party
    If you're going to be partisan Hazzer you should at least try and appear more subtle.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    If you're going to be partisan Hazzer you should at least try and appear more subtle.
    You think Hazzer knows subtlety?
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Based on what? Not all 16 year olds sit in watching Jersey Shore, at 16 people can grasp the concept of public spending. Your only argument is presumably because they vote for social values, rather than economic ones, which would make them tend to vote liberally. This is a backward generalisation right here.

    And of course, nothing says "democracy" like restricting the rights of certain people to vote!
    By that logic every person would be granted the right to vote, including prisoners and babies. It's a nonsense argument

    Neuroscience tells us that the brains of 16 year olds are not fully developed and are prone to irrational and short-term decision-making. They are also more easily influenced and swayed. Add to that they have limited life experience.

    This a cynical attempt to win votes. No more, no less.
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    (Original post by tengentoppa)
    By that logic every person would be granted the right to vote, including prisoners and babies. It's a nonsense argument

    Neuroscience tells us that the brains of 16 year olds are not fully developed and are prone to irrational and short-term decision-making. They are also more easily influenced and swayed. Add to that they have limited life experience.

    This a cynical attempt to win votes. No more, no less.
    Point of order, prisoners are allowed to vote on TSR.
 
 
 
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