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    (Original post by ZiggyStarDust_)
    but why shouldn't it be free?

    Getting education from a school is free; why should unis be any different?
    Because school is more or less compulsory. Teachers have to put up with pupils that couldn't care less, who wouldn't pay anyway. Besides, I still believe that teachers are paid way too little for what they teach, but that's a whole different story.

    Whereas university is further education- we who study in further education wish to make something of our lives, and if paying is a way of succeeding, then so be it.
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    (Original post by PhysicsIP2016)
    Accommodation? Living costs in general? It isn't cheap and sometimes the loan (even the maintenance loan) only covers part of it and adds to the debt. While scholarships and bursaries can be obtained, they are competitive and not widely available, particularly for the people who are slightly over the threshold and therefore don't qualify.
    If you don't qualify, your parents can help out.

    (Original post by PhysicsIP2016)
    Also, the current loans system adds interest from the first term of university, so what you are paying back once you start earning is way over the £9000 a year that was promised.
    Yes, loans have interest, but the "way over" claim is completely false. Student loans have very low interest rates.

    (Original post by PhysicsIP2016)
    Not to mention that nowadays there are a lot of menial jobs that require degrees and do not pay nearly enough to cover the debt and living costs.
    If your job doesn't pay very well, you won't have to pay very much back. Are you actually aware of how the repayments work?

    (Original post by PhysicsIP2016)
    It is very strange that you get people going to some of the best universities in the world and obtaining first class degrees that still have to live at home because the SLC are taking out a large portion of what they are earning so they cannot live independently.
    That's a ridiculously wrong statement. The reason many people in big cities live at home after graduating is because housing prices and rent are incredibly high at the moment, not because they're all suffering under the yoke of student loan repayments. You think having the 9% of your income over £21,000 back isn't going to let you instantly buy a house, if you couldn't before? :lol:

    (Original post by PhysicsIP2016)
    By no means should University be paid for by the government and it shouldn't be free either, but I simply do not see how increasing tuition fees would at all be positive for anyone.
    Well somebody has to pay for it, don't they? Increasing tuition fees means the people benefiting from the degrees pay more, and tax-payer pays less (ideally - I'm not sure whether the increase in fees will actually bring in more money from graduates' repayments: someone actually has to look into the statistics).
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    The average student currently leaves university with a 44 grand debt., to make it any higher is just cruel.
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    No problem with this. The price of good education is costly.
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    (Original post by ZiggyStarDust_)
    She's only doing GCSE's currently

    Actually, I didn't know that you don't have to pay Uni fees upfront; interesting point tbf.
    My ignorance may have got the better of me.

    In that case she probably will be able to afford it. She and I both presumed fees would be paid upfront.
    Well they are paid upfront, but you're guaranteed a loan to cover all of it, that is automatically paid to the university, which you don't have to start paying off until after you graduate and are earning over 21k. You don't have to come up with any of your own money to pay tuition fees, and on top of that you get loaned a tidy sum to help with living expenses.
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    1. Its only a White paper, so nothing is certain.
    2. Its simple economics to increase the cost of the better courses if they show improved employability and quality.
    3. Students should stop being sheeple and commiting themselves to so much debt early on. They are much better getting a job, some savings and taking a few years out to decide whether they want to go and identify something useful that is worth the money.

    A very high % of student debt isnt paid back anyway. Will look it up later.
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    One of my friends pays $60,000 a year to study in the States, and degrees there are 4 years. I am more than happy shelling out £9,000 a year for just 3 years, but that's just me
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    I disagree a bit with the magnitude of the £9k/year fees - but taking that as a starting premise, there's nothing wrong with increasing with inflation from that figure. Why should I pay more for uni than students starting in a few years will? (£9,000 now is worth more than £9,000 in a few years).

    Sure, it sucks that the fees are as high as they are, but it's only fair that they remain at the same effective cost each year.
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    Absolutely shameful, given that our universities are already the most expensive in Europe and amongst the most expensive in the world. Other developed countries are more than capable of making higher education available to everyone without saddling them with an absurd amount of debt, it's an outrage that we refuse to do the same.

    This will just encourage more students to study abroad, where they can access just as high quality an education without the huge costs.
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    (Original post by 16characterlimit)
    "I don't need an argument" oh dear what a joke.

    I don't know why you seem to doubt this, a rise in price will lead to a fall in demand. And yes, just because university numbers increased does not mean many people have not been discouraged, all sorts of factors such as increased requirements in the job market for a degree, a rise in the quality of UK universities and more international students all have caused this. Your very "fact" is fundamentally flawed, just because numbers have risen, is it acceptable for those less able to be barred from attending? Should the ones who can go be some of given the largest debts (higher than the US) for students in the world?

    You've clearly shown that you are an idiot, and I have better things to do, as entertaining as you might be.
    If we have a student finance system where you don't have to pay anything upfront (only after you earn over a certain amount) AND poorer students actually get more help from it (higher maintenance loan) then please tell me how poor student will be deterred from going to university?

    I am personally on free school meals and our household income is very low but this September I will be going to Exeter Uni. I was not deterred and I am a self-proclaimed 'poor' student. In fact I didn't think twice about going to university or not, and I have not heard one of friends say they won't be going to university because it is too expensive either. As another user said the demand for a degree depends on elasticity and in this case it is inelastic. That means a large increase in a price will have a less than proportionate effect on demand. This is also evident if you look at student numbers when fees have been increased in the past.

    (Original post by ZiggyStarDust_)
    but why shouldn't it be free?

    Getting education from a school is free; why should unis be any different?
    Because you benefit more from a degree than society does. Secondary education is different because society would benefit a lot from you having a basic level of maths, science and english. However, society would not benefit much if you suddenly know how the criticisms of Marx's communist manifesto.

    Plus where will the money come from? And if we have a very good finance system for higher education, why shouldn't the student pay?
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    Absolutely shameful, given that our universities are already the most expensive in Europe and amongst the most expensive in the world. Other developed countries are more than capable of making higher education available to everyone without saddling them with an absurd amount of debt, it's an outrage that we refuse to do the same.

    This will just encourage more students to study abroad, where they can access just as high quality an education without the huge costs.
    UK universities are the best in Europe by a country mile.
    Regardless, the current system is highly progressive. The burden has been shifted on to high earning graduates and away from low earning graduates and people who don't even attend university. Who cares what the rest of Europe does, how on Earth is our system bad?
    Christ, it always makes me chuckle seeing self-proclaimed progressive liberal students acting so self-entitled and selfish when comes to university.
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    There is no detail yet. The article states they are looking at courses which can prove their quality as being allowed to increase their fees. Its supply and demand.
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    This is ridiculous. We need maintenance grants back, even more school leaver programmes as an alternative, and at least a cap on fees, if not a lowering of them!
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    UK universities are the best in Europe by a country mile.
    Regardless, the current system is highly progressive. The burden has been shifted on to high earning graduates and away from low earning graduates and people who don't even attend university. Who cares what the rest of Europe does, how on Earth is our system bad?
    Christ, it always makes me chuckle seeing self-proclaimed progressive liberal students acting so self-entitled and selfish when comes to university.
    Firstly, no they aren't. Okay, we've got a load of universities in the top 10 but as far as the vast majority of undergraduates are concerned, their education would be no worse in Germany or France or the Netherlands as it would be in the UK.

    Secondly, there is absolutely nothing self-entitled about expecting affordable university education. I am fed up of this society-hating mantra. The whole point of a society is to use collective resources for the greater good. It's not "self-entitlement" to make a higher quality of life available for the masses, that's called societal development. You (hopefully) don't call people self-entitled when they demand healthcare free at the point of use or free state education up until secondary level, so I don't understand why it's suddenly outrageous to expect society to heavily subsidise the education of young adults, who are gaining valuable skills which will ultimately be used for the good of everyone, not just themselves. If university education was an investment that benefits you, and you alone, of course we'd expect individuals to finance it themselves. But it's not. A highly educated population should be a goal for everyone so it makes absolute sense for any society interested in development to make higher education either free, or inexpensive.
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    When is the rise? If it starts next session then my parents won't let me take a gap year. FML
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    I think going to Chile could be a good decision:
    http://www.uchile.cl/english

    For 5,000 USD you can take english classes in university's that offer them like this one that has some good grading and accepts students from accross the globe:
    http://www.uchile.cl/english
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    (Original post by TeenPolyglot)
    Because school is more or less compulsory. Teachers have to put up with pupils that couldn't care less, who wouldn't pay anyway. Besides, I still believe that teachers are paid way too little for what they teach, but that's a whole different story.

    Whereas university is further education- we who study in further education wish to make something of our lives, and if paying is a way of succeeding, then so be it.
    mhm, I agree with you there. I've always thought teachers get paid too little.

    Yes, school up to GCSE level has always been compulsory. But taking A Levels counts as further education (it's not compulsory) - and this is free. So if A levels are free why shouldn't Uni be free as well? I would agree more with your points if all further education costed money. But that's not the case. That's the problem.
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    (Original post by lahorizon)
    If we have a student finance system where you don't have to pay anything upfront (only after you earn over a certain amount) AND poorer students actually get more help from it (higher maintenance loan) then please tell me how poor student will be deterred from going to university?

    I am personally on free school meals and our household income is very low but this September I will be going to Exeter Uni. I was not deterred and I am a self-proclaimed 'poor' student. In fact I didn't think twice about going to university or not, and I have not heard one of friends say they won't be going to university because it is too expensive either. As another user said the demand for a degree depends on elasticity and in this case it is inelastic. That means a large increase in a price will have a less than proportionate effect on demand. This is also evident if you look at student numbers when fees have been increased in the past.



    Because you benefit more from a degree than society does. Secondary education is different because society would benefit a lot from you having a basic level of maths, science and english. However, society would not benefit much if you suddenly know how the criticisms of Marx's communist manifesto.

    Plus where will the money come from? And if we have a very good finance system for higher education, why shouldn't the student pay?
    No, that's not necessarily true. This depends on the TYPE of degree you go for. If more people went for, physics degrees,say, it's going to encourage more people to get jobs in higher sectors.

    So more people,taking a physics degree, are likely to get jobs in quaternary sectors -> More money(higher paid jobs) -> Better economy -> Society is benefitted
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    Firstly, no they aren't. Okay, we've got a load of universities in the top 10 but as far as the vast majority of undergraduates are concerned, their education would be no worse in Germany or France or the Netherlands as it would be in the UK.

    Secondly, there is absolutely nothing self-entitled about expecting affordable university education. I am fed up of this society-hating mantra. The whole point of a society is to use collective resources for the greater good. It's not "self-entitlement" to make a higher quality of life available for the masses, that's called societal development. You (hopefully) don't call people self-entitled when they demand healthcare free at the point of use or free state education up until secondary level, so I don't understand why it's suddenly outrageous to expect society to heavily subsidise the education of young adults, who are gaining valuable skills which will ultimately be used for the good of everyone, not just themselves. If university education was an investment that benefits you, and you alone, of course we'd expect individuals to finance it themselves. But it's not. A highly educated population should be a goal for everyone so it makes absolute sense for any society interested in development to make higher education either free, or inexpensive.
    Yes, of course they are. You can't have a situation where the UK has a significant plurality of universities in the top 10, 20, 50, 100 etc. in Europe but claim it's no better than on the continent.
    What's unaffordable about paying nothing upfront, nothing in repayments and nothing in interest until you graduate and earn £21k, after which you pay a measly 9% on everything over that threshold? How is that unaffordable?
    University is free at the point of use and the burden is firmly on those that benefit the most from it. That's socially progressive.
    It's absolutely self-entitlement to complain about having to pay essentially a means tested graduate tax.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    In what other walk of life do you get something for nothing?
    If you've been born into upper or even middle class, quite a damn lot. Of course there same people will judge those not quite as lucky by their own standards. Except when the same people surpass them, then it's "luck" lol
 
 
 
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