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Countdown to the Referendum: What We Should All Know About the EU vs. UK Independence watch

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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Its been the leave campaign who've been warning of us that the EU is Hitler's reincarnation
    Boris said: both Hitler and Napoleon attempted European unification, under one flag, and failed, and that the EU was an attempt to do this by different methods. This is historically accurate, and nothing to do with fear. The point is, even tyrannical, despotic leaders couldn't achieve it, so what hope has the EU got of forcing European nations to surrender their sovereignty and become subordinate to a European super-state? Not much - unless, that is, they resort to draconian measures, which is, unfortunately, not as far fetched as some would have it. The EU, and their cronies, have managed to prevent any state from leaving (or even having a plebiscite on membership) over the entire course of their 23 year history, have been taking steps to prohibit criticism of their institutions for decades

    the whole of Turkey is pretty much going to move here within minutes
    I challenge you to quote any of the Vote Leave leadership in saying that

    The fact is Turkey (population 80,000,000) stand to gain VISA-free travel in the EU, and polling suggests that c.12,000,000 are keen to come to the UK, and that c.6,000,000 support the aims/ideology of ISIS. Cameron et al. have said on numerous occasions that they want Turkey to join the EU, and it is plain to see that Turkey is holding the EU to ransom over the Migrant Crisis so ministers are motivated to ratify such concessions

    There is also significant concern over the willingness/capacity of the Turkish authorities to police/enforce corrupt/criminal acquisition of Turkish travel and identification documents by persons from further afield e.g. Syria, Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan. If you’re content with this state of affairs then that’s fine but I can tell you that the vast majority of the rest of the country are not, and quite understandably so

    I also find it amusing how the OP speaks about Pro-EU propaganda when almost every newspaper is anti-eu
    There is a lot of Eurosceptic positioning/posturing on the part of UK (tabloid) newspapers, for sure, but then you have the establishment, and it’s *****es, like the BBC, pulling in the opposite direction. The thing about the papers is, we expect them to have a degree of editorial spin on what they report and the way they report it, but institutions of the British establishment (intended to serve the British people) are supposed to be objective, impartial, and above all of that. Unfortunately all they are doing is undermining confidence in the political system and the BBC, which only causes resentment and disengagement with such organisations and, to some extent, associated Democratic political processes
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    (Original post by james813)
    Didn't you read what I said? There is only PR for the European parliament, which doesn't run the EU. Don't take my word for it, research it and research how the European commission works.



    That's not true I'm afraid. Lots of Labour figures (including their leader) say there needs to be a lot more democratic accountability.
    If you researched properly you'd know that the European Commission only proposes legislation. The decisions on it are made by the European Parliament and the EU council, the former elected by PR and the latter made up of govt ministers from member states. The Parliament also has the power to dismiss the Commission.

    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/aboutp...rvisory-powers
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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    If you researched properly you'd know that the European Commission only proposes legislation. The decisions on it are made by the European Parliament and the EU council, the former elected by PR and the latter made up of govt ministers from member states. The Parliament also has the power to dismiss the Commission.

    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/aboutp...rvisory-powers

    The House of Commons proposes legislation, the House of Lords can amend some of it, and reject a small amount of things. The situation is the same with the EU only the EU parliament has even less power.
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    (Original post by james813)
    The House of Commons proposes legislation, the House of Lords can amend some of it, and reject a small amount of things. The situation is the same with the EU only the EU parliament has even less power.
    Less power?

    The Lords can't dismiss the Commons from office AFAIK, or prevent an MP from taking up their seat.
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    Do you know how many times they have dismissed the appointed European Commission?
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    (Original post by james813)
    Do you know how many times they have dismissed the appointed European Commission?
    Never.
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    I challenge you to quote any of the Vote Leave leadership in saying that

    The fact is Turkey (population 80,000,000) stand to gain VISA-free travel in the EU, and polling suggests that c.12,000,000 are keen to come to the UK, and that c.6,000,000 support the aims/ideology of ISIS. Cameron et al. have said on numerous occasions that they want Turkey to join the EU, and it is plain to see that Turkey is holding the EU to ransom over the Migrant Crisis so ministers are motivated to ratify such concessions
    They say it through innuendo. They know that by referring to Turkey and EU free movement rights, people will draw the incorrect conclusion that every Turk will move to the UK.

    That's scaremongering on the Brexit side.

    The truth is that Turkey is unlikely to join the EU any time soon - maybe never. And when the time comes for them to be considered, the UK will have a veto.

    Turkey doesn't have the EU over a barrel like some suggest. The EU still has entry requirements which would be wrong to overlook. While we need to work with Turkey at the moment, I don't think that need will stop EU countries from also holding the country to the high standards required.

    Just today, Germany voted that the death of Armenians in 1915 should be considered a genocide committed by Turkey. This hasn't gone down well with the Turkish government.
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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    Never.

    Good, so let's base the argument on what's actually happening. You can only become a European Commissioner by being a huge supporter of 'ever closer union' and a majority of the EU parliament from all those countries won't dismiss it.so they have no real power
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    (Original post by james813)
    Good, so let's base the argument on what's actually happening. You can only become a European Commissioner by being a huge supporter of 'ever closer union' and a majority of the EU parliament from all those countries won't dismiss it.so they have no real power
    Not having done something as of yet doesn't mean that they aren't able to if the situation calls for it. It's like saying we don't have a nuclear deterrent because we've never used it before.

    The point is the notion of 28 unelected people running the continent is a myth, they only exist with the consent of elected politicians.
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    (Original post by james813)
    Good, so let's base the argument on what's actually happening. You can only become a European Commissioner by being a huge supporter of 'ever closer union' and a majority of the EU parliament from all those countries won't dismiss it.so they have no real power
    Part of the renegotiation we got was an exemption from ever closer union.
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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    Part of the renegotiation we got was an exemption from ever closer union.
    ****ing TORIES stole ever closer union from us !!!!

    what's the point of being in the club if you just buy everyone's drink and stand in the corner?????

    GET RID OF WESTMINSTER NOW!!!
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Boris said: both Hitler and Napoleon attempted European unification, under one flag, and failed, and that the EU was an attempt to do this by different methods. This is historically accurate, and nothing to do with fear. The point is, even tyrannical, despotic leaders couldn't achieve it, so what hope has the EU got of forcing European nations to surrender their sovereignty and become subordinate to a European super-state? Not much - unless, that is, they resort to draconian measures, which is, unfortunately, not as far fetched as some would have it. The EU, and their cronies, have managed to prevent any state from leaving (or even having a plebiscite on membership) over the entire course of their 23 year history, have been taking steps to prohibit criticism of their institutions for decades

    I challenge you to quote any of the Vote Leave leadership in saying that

    The fact is Turkey (population 80,000,000) stand to gain VISA-free travel in the EU, and polling suggests that c.12,000,000 are keen to come to the UK, and that c.6,000,000 support the aims/ideology of ISIS. Cameron et al. have said on numerous occasions that they want Turkey to join the EU, and it is plain to see that Turkey is holding the EU to ransom over the Migrant Crisis so ministers are motivated to ratify such concessions

    There is also significant concern over the willingness/capacity of the Turkish authorities to police/enforce corrupt/criminal acquisition of Turkish travel and identification documents by persons from further afield e.g. Syria, Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan. If you’re content with this state of affairs then that’s fine but I can tell you that the vast majority of the rest of the country are not, and quite understandably so

    There is a lot of Eurosceptic positioning/posturing on the part of UK (tabloid) newspapers, for sure, but then you have the establishment, and it’s *****es, like the BBC, pulling in the opposite direction. The thing about the papers is, we expect them to have a degree of editorial spin on what they report and the way they report it, but institutions of the British establishment (intended to serve the British people) are supposed to be objective, impartial, and above all of that. Unfortunately all they are doing is undermining confidence in the political system and the BBC, which only causes resentment and disengagement with such organisations and, to some extent, associated Democratic political processes
    Sigh.
    The Brexiters and their victim mentality cry about how the remain campaign are scaremongering while you, yourself are scaremongering about Turkey- despite the fact every single country has a veto and there being very little chance that Turkey will join.


    Also the polling did not suggest 12 million Turks 'will come'- it was a poll done on a few thousand people and the wording was 'consider'.

    But that's irrelevant because they are not joining and saying they are is pure scaremongering.

    The Brexit campaign have been scaremongering far more than the remain campaign.

    And you're also playing the anti establishment card. Yeah because Rupert Murdoch who is campaigning to leave is really anti establishment isn't he?


    The victim mentality and paranoia of the Brexit camp really is astonishing.
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    (Original post by bornblue)
    sigh.
    The brexiters and their victim mentality cry about how the remain campaign are scaremongering while you, yourself are scaremongering about turkey- despite the fact every single country has a veto and there being very little chance that turkey will join.


    Also the polling did not suggest 12 million turks 'will come'- it was a poll done on a few thousand people and the wording was 'consider'.

    But that's irrelevant because they are not joining and saying they are is pure scaremongering.

    The brexit campaign have been scaremongering far more than the remain campaign.

    And you're also playing the anti establishment card. Yeah because rupert murdoch who is campaigning to leave is really anti establishment isn't he?


    The victim mentality and paranoia of the brexit camp really is astonishing.
    rupert murdoch is in cahoots with johnson!!!!!!
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    And you're also playing the anti establishment card. Yeah because Rupert Murdoch who is campaigning to leave is really anti establishment isn't he?
    This^^^

    The reason he's backing Brexit is due to his lack of influence in the EU.

    Spoiler:
    Show
    I know having Sky is a bit hypocritical of me but it pisses all over the other TV providers.
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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    Part of the renegotiation we got was an exemption from ever closer union.

    You think that's worth the paper it's written on? As soon as we vote Bremain, we will be forced in an EU army
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    (Original post by james813)
    You think that's worth the paper it's written on? As soon as we vote Bremain, we will be forced in an EU army
    Yes I do think it worth a lot. The part of the deal regarding ever closer union came in the form of a decision of heads of state. It's international law - not EU law. This means that it can be registered as a treaty.
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    EU Press release: European Commission and IT Companies announce Code of Conduct on illegal online hate speech

    "Some Members of the European Parliament have characterized the EU's code of online conduct — which requires "offensive" material to be removed from the Internet within 24 hours, and replaced with "counter-narratives" — as "Orwellian."" (Gatestone Institute)
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    Added: CAP takes up half of EU budget, 80% goes to (wealthy) 25% of farmers, it’s wasteful, and harms farmers outside EU e.g. food dumping
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    Wow. This guy smashed it!

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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Wow. This guy smashed it!

    First few minutes and I thought this was something lifted from David Icke's forum - or one of those Sovereign People sites!

    The rest is the normal old rubbish we've seen before. Totally mis-understanding the EU institutions, failed to look into EU treaties, open borders meaning we're swamped with militant muslims and we can't deport anyone, EU Army myth, All in it to further business interests, fails to mention rights and freedoms we get from the EU etc etc.

    No new material and it wasn't very compelling. Highlights for me:

    1) Obama is the worst US president in history. Hilarious. He claims to have American friends - one assumes they'll all be voting for Trump...

    2) At one point getting particularly angry and claiming that people voting to remain in the EU will be doing so totally unaware of what they will be losing. Ironic given the Brexit campaign is totally reliant on people being ok with leaving the EU and just hoping for the best in the future.

    His video description is full of links to Breitbart, The Express, and The Mail. In terms of being a shouty human form of those publications, yes, he totally smashed it.
 
 
 
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