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    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    It's a very complex issue, there were six discrete reasons I raised as being why there was necessarily a focus on the religion of the perpetrator if his religion was Islam.

    It was a long post, but to claim nothing was said at all is bizarre.

    I did you the courtesy of taking your point seriously, and responding comprehensively. Your own ill-mannered and boorish response and assumption about my intentions simply reveal your own insecurities.
    All true, but you are being trolled, I suspect.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    All true, but you are being trolled, I suspect.
    Is this what you do, troll call when you can't reinforce a simple argument?
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    (Original post by QE2)
    or beat their wives (under certain conditions).
    Yes! Ban this! I am sick of my hands stinging and getting callouses, and having to replace paddles! Oak is expensive!!

    More (or less) seriously, this aspect of Islam I can agree with.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    To be accurate, most of the regular contributors keep talking about "Islam". Muslims are individuals, like everyone else, and their actions and words must be treated as such.

    That doesn't mean that no Muslims can be criticised, if their actions or words justify it - just like everyone else.

    For example, I have a big issue with Islam's permission for Muslims to take and rape slaves, or beat their wives (under certain conditions).
    However, if any Muslim attemps to justify or defend these things, they too can be criticised on the basis of their faith.
    Islam doesn't permit raping and slavery. I'm not sure where you got that from because the English version of the Quran is not accurate. Also, it's more likely that I would have more knowledge about Islam as I've read the Quran in English so many times and I haven't come across anything like this. Also, it wouldn't make sense if we'd wear a hijab to protect ourselves against rape.
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    (Original post by *Alisha*)
    Islam doesn't permit raping and slavery.
    Yes it does.

    The permission for slavery is explicit. There are many passages in the Quran, many hadith, explanations in tafsir and also references to Muhammad and the companions keeping slaves in works like Ishaq's biography.
    It is simply denying reality to claim that Islam does not permit slavery.

    "When thequestion is asked: why does Islam permit slavery? We reply emphatically andwithout shame that slavery is permitted in Islam" - Dr. Saalih ibn Humayd - Imam of the Masjid al Haramin Makkah

    I'm not sure where you got that from because the English version of the Quran is not accurate.
    Isn't it? How is it inaccurate?

    Also, it's more likely that I would have more knowledge about Islam as I've read the Quran in English so many times and I haven't come across anything like this.
    But you just claimed that the English Quran is inaccurate! :confused:
    (BTW, we have already established that your knowledge of Islam is somewhat limited and one-sided)

    The permission to rape is inferred in a particular situation.
    The Quran and sunnah allow Muslim men to have sex with their slaves (captives taken during conflict).
    International law considers the use of captives for sex as rape.

    "And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those captives whom your right hands possess." - Quran 4:24

    "Who abstain from sex, Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame" - Quran 23:6

    "We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee" - Quran 33:50

    Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them. So we asked Allah's Apostle about it and he said, "Do you really do that?" repeating the question thrice, "There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection." - Bukhari 62:137

    Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: that while he was sitting with Allah's Apostle he said, "O Allah's Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interrupt us?" The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it. No soul that which Allah has destined to exist, but will surely come into existence. - Bukhari 34:432

    Note that when the companions told Muhammad that they were raping captives, he did not tell them to stop or that it was forbidden. He merely told them that attempting to avoid impregnating them was pointless, due to Allah's predeterminism.

    "Allaah has permitted intimacy with a slavewoman if the man owns her." - islamqa.info


    Also, it wouldn't make sense if we'd wear a hijab to protect ourselves against rape.
    How does wearing a hijab protect a woman from rape? Seriously. It's not the hair that a rapist is after.
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    (Original post by *Alisha*)
    Also, it's more likely that I would have more knowledge about Islam as I've read the Quran in English so many times .
    I notice that your avatar is both immodest, and depicts a person - two things forbidden in Islam. IIRC, Muhammad said that those who make images of living creatures will be in the lowest levels of jahannam, or something.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    I notice that your avatar is both immodest, and depicts a person - two things forbidden in Islam. IIRC, Muhammad said that those who make images of living creatures will be in the lowest levels of jahannam, or something.
    It's not really me!
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    (Original post by *Alisha*)
    It's not really me!
    And the cartoons aren't really Muhammad.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    And the cartoons aren't really Muhammad.
    Byeeee
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    (Original post by *Alisha*)
    Byeeee
    You haven't responded to the slavery/rape issue.

    Or do you concede all the points raised?
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    (Original post by QE2)
    You haven't responded to the slavery/rape issue.

    Or do you concede all the points raised?
    No I do not concede all the points. First of all I need evidence from the Quran and I'll continue this argument.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Yes it does.

    The permission for slavery is explicit. There are many passages in the Quran, many hadith, explanations in tafsir and also references to Muhammad and the companions keeping slaves in works like Ishaq's biography.
    It is simply denying reality to claim that Islam does not permit slavery.

    Evidence ?

    "When thequestion is asked: why does Islam permit slavery? We reply emphatically andwithout shame that slavery is permitted in Islam" - Dr. Saalih ibn Humayd - Imam of the Masjid al Haramin Makkah

    Isn't it? How is it inaccurate?

    [/b]

    But you just claimed that the English Quran is inaccurate! :confused:
    (BTW, we have already established that your knowledge of Islam is somewhat limited and one-sided)

    Website above

    The permission to rape is inferred in a particular situation.
    The Quran and sunnah allow Muslim men to have sex with their slaves (captives taken during conflict).
    International law considers the use of captives for sex as rape.

    There's nothing in the Quran that say's that
    [/url]

    How does wearing a hijab protect a woman from rape? Seriously. It's not the hair that a rapist is after.
    People (referring to men) are more interested in women's looks. Most men look at the hair before anything else. But wearing the hijab covers the hair.
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    (Original post by *Alisha*)
    No I do not concede all the points. First of all I need evidence from the Quran and I'll continue this argument.
    Try reading my post #66.

    Are you a Quranist? If so, fair enough.
    However, if you are a Sunni, then evidence from the sunnah must also be acceptable.
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    Thank god the women are still alive... That guy seriously needs to apologise
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Try reading my post #66.

    Are you a Quranist? If so, fair enough.
    However, if you are a Sunni, then evidence from the sunnah must also be acceptable.

    https://www.quora.com/Which-is-the-b...n-of-the-Quran
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    (Original post by *Alisha*)
    People (referring to men) are more interested in women's looks. Most men look at the hair before anything else. But wearing the hijab covers the hair.
    First, could you order your replies so that it is clear what your response is to which points.

    Second, if I make a point and supply quotes from the Quran, hadith, and the opinion of scholars, it is utterly pointless to reply with "Evidence?"

    Also, a post by some random person on the internet is not really evidence for anything other than that person's opinion.

    Back to you.
    Thanks.
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    Why are you linking to a page with recommendations for English translations? What has that got to do with the issue of slavery?
    You claimed that they were all inaccurate - but then went on to claim that you had read it many times, so knew a lot about Islam.

    I think that you are as confused as I am about your position here!
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Why are you linking to a page with recommendations for English translations? What has that got to do with the issue of slavery?
    You claimed that they were all inaccurate - but then went on to claim that you had read it many times, so knew a lot about Islam.

    I think that you are as confused as I am about your position here!
    This was for answering your question on if the English Quran is inaccurate.
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    (Original post by *Alisha*)
    People (referring to men) are more interested in women's looks. Most men look at the hair before anything else. But wearing the hijab covers the hair.
    Who told you this?
    None of the men that I know look at the hair before anything else - and I'm willing to bet that the majority of men don't. Which is why the whole thing of wearing a hijab with loads of makeup and tight clothes is so ridiculous.
    Surveys tend to show that men notice the eyes, smile and breasts first. Hair is usually some way behing these.

    But hey, you've never let facts get in the way of your arguments before, so why start now?
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Who told you this?
    None of the men that I know look at the hair before anything else - and I'm willing to bet that the majority of men don't. Which is why the whole thing of wearing a hijab with loads of makeup and tight clothes is so ridiculous.
    Surveys tend to show that men notice the eyes, smile and breasts first. Hair is usually some way behing these.

    But hey, you've never let facts get in the way of your arguments before, so why start now?
    I just know
 
 
 
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