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    (Original post by Madeline_H95)
    Bulgaria is a poor country - TRUE
    Bulgaria receive more than it gives to the eu - TRUE
    Bulgaria is economically weak in the eu - TRUE

    What I said is undeniable facts. It's true. Bulgaria is in the eu for free cash.
    Amongst other things. Is there anything wrong with that? Economic prosperity is an aim for all the countries. Its also approved by all the net contributors, so they see whats in it for them.
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    (Original post by Reformed2010)
    Exactly. This has everything to do with ignorance and for some just lies, because the likes of Boris and Nigel are educated enough to know the trend for nation-states is continental integration into supranational organisations/states.

    The average person I grant has not been taught this at school or university, people are not aware of the slow but increasing integration of nation-states into larger continental unions. I've watched and read so many debates around the EU where people accuse it of being discriminatory because it is refuses to let non-European states join. Firstly this is just an absurd argument, they do not follow their logic and call for Pakistan and India to unite or USA and Canada.

    But nevertheless, the West Indies has it's own integration going on, called the Caribbean Community as does the Africa in the African Union and South America in the Union of South American Nations.
    It makes sense to be in a bloc!
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    (Original post by Madeline_H95)
    That doesn't make an sense whatsoever. Bulgaria is piggy backing on richer eu countries for its own selfish pruposes. Bulgair should receive nothing. To say Bulgaria will repay the favour is rubbish. The eu will be all rich when bulgaria gets rich, bulgaria will have no countries to repay the help to. Bulgaria will never be in a position to repay help to UK, France and Germany.
    You dont understand the purpose of the EU. For the donor countries its in their favour to have new markets and cheaper sources of labour. It also adds to the stability in Europe. Its to the advantage of other countries that all its members expand economically.
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    (Original post by redwhiteandbrit)
    And the UK obviously obtains far less than we put in. Not to mention all the non-monetary benefits such as free-travel, safety, security, etc that the EU provides. Bulgaria actively repays the favour in the sense that we have an expanded market for our goods and services. And it's not all about wealth ...
    Bulgaria is a tiny market and the consumers in Bulgaria can easily be forgotten about. Bulgaria is repaying nothing. Oh yeah, travel is great, no one went on holiday before the schengen and visa-free rules started, and no one possibly travels outside the EU where a visa is needed. Not to mention not all countries outside the u require visas. it goes to show visa-free travel and eu is not mutually exclusive.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    You dont understand the purpose of the EU. For the donor countries its in their favour to have new markets and cheaper sources of labour. It also adds to the stability in Europe. Its to the advantage of other countries that all its members expand economically.
    It doesn't. Bulgaria is a tiny market Britain exports hardly anything to. Bulgaria can easily be forgotten about. Bulgaria is as important to British exporters as Canada is to indoor ski companies and BP is to qatar. It's not in favour of net contributors to have drains on eu resources tagging along.
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    (Original post by Madeline_H95)
    Bulgaria is a tiny market and the consumers in Bulgaria can easily be forgotten about. Bulgaria is repaying nothing. Oh yeah, travel is great, no one went on holiday before the schengen and visa-free rules started, and no one possibly travels outside the EU where a visa is needed. Not to mention not all countries outside the u require visas. it goes to show visa-free travel and eu is not mutually exclusive.
    I didn't say it was. I said it was one of other benefits.
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    (Original post by Madeline_H95)
    It doesn't. Bulgaria is a tiny market Britain exports hardly anything to. Bulgaria can easily be forgotten about. Bulgaria is as important to British exporters as Canada is to indoor ski companies and BP is to qatar. It's not in favour of net contributors to have drains on eu resources tagging along.
    Its a tiny market now, but it along with the rest of the EU will develop in future.
    As long as an accession country commits itself to the aims, standards and values of the EU then they cna applt to join as per article 2 and article 49 of the Treaty of Lisbon. The countries who are the net contributors can object, but they all voted in favour.
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    (Original post by Madeline_H95)
    It doesn't. Bulgaria is a tiny market Britain exports hardly anything to. Bulgaria can easily be forgotten about.
    Britain exports hardly anything anyway, speaking in terms of physical goods. We are a wholly inefficient system, and the addition of another country into a market where our services (which are crucial for the balance of payments) actually have some elements of comparative advantage is a blessing for our own development, as well as their own
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    (Original post by Madeline_H95)
    It doesn't. Bulgaria is a tiny market Britain exports hardly anything to. Bulgaria can easily be forgotten about. Bulgaria is as important to British exporters as Canada is to indoor ski companies and BP is to qatar. It's not in favour of net contributors to have drains on eu resources tagging along.
    Well the EU is not just about money, it's also about spreading a zone of peace, democracy and liberty. One way you achieve this is to invest in a country like Bulgaria, economically and politically. You may not think this is a good aim or that the EU is the best way to achieve this, but others like myself do. Repeatedly arguing it is poor and we Brits do not export high enough % to it, misses the point entirely. That's like a Brit arguing Cornwall or Wales are poor regions of the UK and thus we should question, simply for being poorer, it's right to remain in the British Union.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Its a tiny market now, but it along with the rest of the EU will develop in future.
    As long as an accession country commits itself to the aims, standards and values of the EU then they cna applt to join as per article 2 and article 49 of the Treaty of Lisbon. The countries who are the net contributors can object, but they all voted in favour.
    When Bulgaria grows to be bigger it'll still be a relatively small market, the rest of the world would have moved on. The EU should be a union of rich countries not a union of weak and poor countries.

    (Original post by redwhiteandbrit)
    Britain exports hardly anything anyway, speaking in terms of physical goods. We are a wholly inefficient system, and the addition of another country into a market where our services (which are crucial for the balance of payments) actually have some elements of comparative advantage is a blessing for our own development, as well as their own
    Britain exports loads of services, it's what the economy runs on, Bulgaria is not a big market for those services. Bulgaria is not important to Britain. Bulgaria is only in the eu because the eu is expansionist and does not have an economic plan for development


    (Original post by Reformed2010)
    Well the EU is not just about money, it's also about spreading a zone of peace, democracy and liberty. One way you achieve this is to invest in a country like Bulgaria, economically and politically. You may not think this is a good aim or that the EU is the best way to achieve this, but others like myself do. Repeatedly arguing it is poor and we Brits do not export high enough % to it, misses the point entirely. That's like a Brit arguing Cornwall or Wales is poor region of the UK and thus we should question why it is should be kicked out.
    I suppose in your world nato, un, interpol, five eyes, and being good friends with the only superpower is irrelevant in your world. The eu has not promotes peace. The eu and peace is a coincidence. Peace has been a general trend since before the EU was created after Korea.
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    (Original post by Madeline_H95)
    When Bulgaria grows to be bigger it'll still be a relatively small market, the rest of the world would have moved on. The EU should be a union of rich countries not a union of weak and poor countries.

    But it will contribute to make the EU itself a bigger power in global affairs ...

    Britain exports loads of services, it's what the economy runs on, Bulgaria is not a big market for those services. Bulgaria is not important to Britain. Bulgaria is only in the eu because the eu is expansionist and does not have an economic plan for development

    All of which is what I said, except for the fact that as Bulgaria develops it will begin to demand services, which will benefit the UK...


    I suppose in your world nato, un, interpol, five eyes, and being good friends with the only superpower is irrelevant in your world. The eu has not promotes peace. The eu and peace is a coincidence. Peace has been a general trend since before the EU was created after Korea.
    Peace is a "general trend"? Are you out of your mind? Though there haven't been any wars to the extent of the World Wars, we are still perpetually in a Cold War, and tensions escalated by our "War on Terror" would not indicate peace...

    Nevertheless, the EU, like all blocs, fosters peace because it creates a collective of countries unified by a common goal. I assume it's also coincidence that you ignored the point made in the quoted text about ignoring weaker areas of the UK?
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    Bulgarian food
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    (Original post by redwhiteandbrit)
    Peace is a "general trend"? Are you out of your mind? Though there haven't been any wars to the extent of the World Wars, we are still perpetually in a Cold War, and tensions escalated by our "War on Terror" would not indicate peace...

    Nevertheless, the EU, like all blocs, fosters peace because it creates a collective of countries unified by a common goal. I assume it's also coincidence that you ignored the point made in the quoted text about ignoring weaker areas of the UK?
    Bulgaria does not help make the eu a bigger global power. The eu would be as powerful as it is if it was a union of UK, Germany, France, Netherlands, and Spain.

    Research the liberal peace thesis. Countries in europe are mainly liberal democracies and liberal democracies very rarely go to war and there has not been a war between two liberal democracies since ww2...if you consider nazi Germany to be a liberal democracy that is
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    (Original post by Madeline_H95)
    When Bulgaria grows to be bigger it'll still be a relatively small market, the rest of the world would have moved on. The EU should be a union of rich countries not a union of weak and poor countries.
    .
    You are missing the point of why the EU was founded and what its aims are. Its not just economic.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    You are missing the point of why the EU was founded and what its aims are. Its not just economic.
    The eu doesn't even meet it's aims.

    Peace - no
    development - no
    more international say - hardly
    stronger economy - um, i don't know. How about we ask Greece for that answer

    The eu is a failed dream. It's a disastrous pet project of the elite.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    The EU is institutionally racist. Such a coincidence all its member states who get to bask in its glory are WHITE COUNTRIES.


    How about letting Chad join or Botswana? White men turning their backs on black people and helping lighter skinned people. Thought not Jean claude Hitler
    EU can't help every country around the world .

    I'd suggest to form a world government but people think their countries are very important so most won't agree right now.
    Just think a country such as Saudi Arabia with Britain ... they don't match.
    We'll have to wait a long time until a world government is functional .
    Until then countries will not have to help one another that much , they will have military and all these useless stuff that don't help humanity at all . When people complain about the 18 billion that NASA takes each year , USA spends 600 billion to military and that's fine , because it make USA stronger but humanity as a whole weaker.
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    (Original post by Madeline_H95)
    The eu doesn't even meet it's aims.

    Peace - no
    development - no
    more international say - hardly
    stronger economy - um, i don't know. How about we ask Greece for that answer

    The eu is a failed dream. It's a disastrous pet project of the elite.
    Not noticed any wars within the EU.
    Think we have a largerGDP than 1973.
    Its a more significnat block acting as 28 countries than they would on their own.
    There are more countries than just Greece.

    The main objectives of the Union are now to promote peace, the Union's values and the well-being of its peoples.

    These general objectives are supplemented by a list of more detailed objectives:
    • an area of freedom, security and justice without internal frontiers ;
    • an internal market where competition is free and undistorted;
    • sustainable development, based on balanced economic growth and price stability, a highly competitive social market economy, aiming at full employment and social progress, and a high level of protection and improvement of the quality of the environment;
    • the promotion of scientific and technological advance;
    • the combating of social exclusion and discrimination, and the promotion of social justice and protection, equality between women and men, solidarity between generations and protection of the rights of the child;
    • the promotion of economic, social and territorial cohesion, and solidarity among Member States.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Not noticed any wars within the EU.
    Think we have a largerGDP than 1973.
    Its a more significnat block acting as 28 countries than they would on their own.
    There are more countries than just Greece.

    The main objectives of the Union are now to promote peace, the Union's values and the well-being of its peoples.

    These general objectives are supplemented by a list of more detailed objectives:
    Brussels, paris, madrid and cologne prove how secure the eu is. The intelligence sharing is fantastic and the no internal borders allowing weapons to be freely carried from eastern europe to be used in the paris attacks doesn't matter.
    • an internal market where competition is free and undistorted;
    Reducing the competitiveness of London to give other cities a chance to catch up goes against that point.
    • sustainable development, based on balanced economic growth and price stability, a highly competitive social market economy, aiming at full employment and social progress, and a high level of protection and improvement of the quality of the environment;
    There's not full employment, the euro does not bring any protection or growth and the carbon targets to reduce pollution go against growth. This objective is nonsense and contradictory
    • the promotion of scientific and technological advance;
    Britain does more for science on its own than the rest of the eu. Besides all that can continue without the eu
    • the combating of social exclusion and discrimination, and the promotion of social justice and protection, equality between women and men, solidarity between generations and protection of the rights of the child;
    All ideological and I'm against some of that.
    • the promotion of economic, social and territorial cohesion, and solidarity among Member States.
    There is no economic cohesion with the euro and Britain's euroscepticism and eu countries unilaterally installing borders proves this object to not have worked
    That's the point. EU countries haven't warred just like all other liberal democracies. The eu didn't bring peace.
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    Historically the UK was one of the big pushers behind enlargement of the EU to Eastern Europe. It's only been in the past few years that the UK has become more sceptical about it.

    The UK's generally favourable position towards Eastern Europe was based on two principles. One, in the context of the Cold War, Margaret Thatcher was pro expansion east of the Iron Curtain for security purposes and to promote the victory of capitalism over the Communist bloc. Bringing the former Soviet satellite states in to the club of free trade and the single market was a bit strategic victory over Russia and it is a reason why after a period of detente between Russia and NATO, relations have deteriorated again with Russia feeling that the West has crept up to its borders.

    The other issue for the UK was that the UK always had a different vision of Europe than say Germany/France. Whereas Germany/France were more in favour of greater integration and moving towards a European superstate, the UK always preferred the idea of the EU as being a broad but looser affiliation of nations in a trading bloc. By pushing to bring Eastern European countries in it made Eurointegration more difficult and also diluted the influence Germany had. Often the smaller EU countries take similar positions to the UK and are less pro-Germany.
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    The EU much like communism,a decent idea if you take out the human part. The us is a clusterfack at the moment and really needs reform. we already have turkey blackmailing us and Hit.. I mean Hillary and a gang of idiots pushing laws and policies that are a direct violation of our rights and remind me of a certain mustache wearing leader.
 
 
 
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