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    (Original post by Jebedee)
    How exactly does it create criminals?

    Capitalism is like an exam. In any exam there are bound to be some that fail. We don't scrap the exam, we tell people to study or shut up.
    Except that students have the chance to get distinctions if they want to, simply by failing a few more students.

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    (Original post by sweeneyrod)
    Yes, capitalism is the sole cause of criminality. It is well-known that in the Soviet Union no-one ever did anything bad and there was always enough food to eat and everything was always happy and magical.
    Well, technically, according the records, the Soviet Union had zero crime.

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    (Original post by Jebedee)
    Now you're trying to impose your equality ideology onto my analogy. I never said it was fair, life isn't fair because we're all born to different circumstances and with different abilities. If you want your children to get a better headstart than others then do the work, or your children will have to instead. But don't complain about others whose forefathers did earn the right for their children/grandchildren to be better off.

    I don't know where you got that about white collar crime... I've had a family member beaten and stomped on in the street leading to his suicide where the perpetrators were out in less than 2 years, While people get way longer than that for tax evasion or possession. I would much prefer that white collar crime result in less time because it is a non violent crime. Violence makes it far worse.
    I'm imposing nothing, I'm saying life is BS and to go just work harder isnt good enough. Some people can't, others have an unfair head start and to treat it like an equal sum game is a massive disservice. Societies mark of intelligence is highly finite, how well would these ivory tower types have done without electricians to let them see in the dark, mechanics to let them travel to meetings? They couldn't have made their living by themselves. They drive a German car to a British building, picking up a swiss drink on the way to go into a French made boardroom and discuss their ideas before driving home to their swedish sofa and children dressed in chinese fabric and give them a gift of south american produce. They couldn't sustain their lives by themselves, they just happened to be good at what our society most values.

    You're saying just work hard fundamentally missing that no matter how hard some people work they can never be part of the elite 1% even if they work harder than all of them combined. How easy do you think it is to achieve social mobility? My job has people who work 10 hour shifts plus overtime just to feed their kids and keep a roof over their heads four to five days a week on minimum wage - do you really think David Cameron puts that amount of time into his paycheck 50 times their size. Does he put in 50x the effort? Capitalism is imperfect and 'just work harder' is a tacit denial of the reality of the situation.

    From the actual statistics. On my law degree. Where they teach us such statistics. That's awful and I'll tailor my argument to be respectful rather than talk about such a terrible occurrence but poverty is in no small part the cause of violence and white collar crime often causes poverty. Further you have compared one form of theft to a form of violence, they are not comparable areas of law.
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    (Original post by the bear)
    people choose to live criminal lifestyles... they love causing misery to honest folk.
    Actually in most cases no they don't.

    Most crime (ofc not including organised crime) is driven by poverty and when people don't have skills or education crime can present itself as a very a viable option.

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    (Original post by Nidhoggr)
    Actually in most cases no they don't.

    Most crime (ofc not including organised crime) is driven by poverty and when people don't have skills or education crime can present itself as a very a viable option.

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    criminals love being nasty and then playing the victim card so people like you can feel guilty.
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    (Original post by GonvilleBromhead)
    I'm imposing nothing, I'm saying life is BS and to go just work harder isnt good enough. Some people can't, others have an unfair head start and to treat it like an equal sum game is a massive disservice. Societies mark of intelligence is highly finite, how well would these ivory tower types have done without electricians to let them see in the dark, mechanics to let them travel to meetings? They couldn't have made their living by themselves. They drive a German car to a British building, picking up a swiss drink on the way to go into a French made boardroom and discuss their ideas before driving home to their swedish sofa and children dressed in chinese fabric and give them a gift of south american produce. They couldn't sustain their lives by themselves, they just happened to be good at what our society most values.

    You're saying just work hard fundamentally missing that no matter how hard some people work they can never be part of the elite 1% even if they work harder than all of them combined. How easy do you think it is to achieve social mobility? My job has people who work 10 hour shifts plus overtime just to feed their kids and keep a roof over their heads four to five days a week on minimum wage - do you really think David Cameron puts that amount of time into his paycheck 50 times their size. Does he put in 50x the effort? Capitalism is imperfect and 'just work harder' is a tacit denial of the reality of the situation.

    From the actual statistics. On my law degree. Where they teach us such statistics. That's awful and I'll tailor my argument to be respectful rather than talk about such a terrible occurrence but poverty is in no small part the cause of violence and white collar crime often causes poverty. Further you have compared one form of theft to a form of violence, they are not comparable areas of law.
    If you expect to get rich in the rat race then you'll be sorely disappointed. Get a job, save and start a business or invest. Your fate is in your hands only. You can either find out what you need to do and then do it, or sit around complaining about muh social mobility. Your choice.
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    (Original post by GonvilleBromhead)
    My job has people who work 10 hour shifts plus overtime just to feed their kids and keep a roof over their heads four to five days a week on minimum wage - do you really think David Cameron puts that amount of time into his paycheck 50 times their size. Does he put in 50x the effort?
    Out of interest what job do you do?


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    (Original post by Jebedee)
    If you expect to get rich in the rat race then you'll be sorely disappointed. Get a job, save and start a business or invest. Your fate is in your hands only. You can either find out what you need to do and then do it, or sit around complaining about muh social mobility. Your choice.
    Well you see, that's a fine attitude to have for everyone IF it applied to everyone, but society will always advantage certain individuals. We should look to reform it to promote social mobility not tolerate it as is because its better than an alternative.

    As a life tip sucking it up is good advice, but more people should take an interest in removing barriers.

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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Well you see, that's a fine attitude to have for everyone IF it applied to everyone, but society will always advantage certain individuals. We should look to reform it to promote social mobility not tolerate it as is because its better than an alternative.

    As a life tip sucking it up is good advice, but more people should take an interest in removing barriers.

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    I never said it was equal for everyone. You are looking at everyone through the lens of equality but it is just a myth. Society advantages those who have the most to offer, period.
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    (Original post by Jebedee)
    I never said it was equal for everyone. You are looking at everyone through the lens of equality but it is just a myth. Society advantages those who have the most to offer, period.
    No, it doesn't. You'll spot this when you work and you realise that you're better at your job than some people there who are years ahead of you, get paid better and get better perks. Try working with the boss' kids, they get the better hours, the easiest jobs, the better pay all because they're daddy runs the place. I know plenty of people who lost out on a permanent position because of family connections, or other similar examples of nepotism.

    Society isn't equal, I understand why as a businessman why I would want to employ my children, but I'd like to think they at least are as capable as me if they get promoted ahead of me, sadly, that isn't the real world.

    There are some great examples where people get promoted through hard work, but there are as many great examples where inept characters get promoted to "stay out of the way." This is life. Society DOESN'T advantage those who offer more PERIOD.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    No, it doesn't. You'll spot this when you work and you realise that you're better at your job than some people there who are years ahead of you, get paid better and get better perks. Try working with the boss' kids, they get the better hours, the easiest jobs, the better pay all because they're daddy runs the place. I know plenty of people who lost out on a permanent position because of family connections, or other similar examples of nepotism.

    Society isn't equal, I understand why as a businessman why I would want to employ my children, but I'd like to think they at least are as capable as me if they get promoted ahead of me, sadly, that isn't the real world.

    There are some great examples where people get promoted through hard work, but there are as many great examples where inept characters get promoted to "stay out of the way." This is life. Society DOESN'T advantage those who offer more PERIOD.
    What you are describing obviously happens but not en masse like you are making it out to be. If you think the existence of nepotism is an excuse to just throw all your toys out of the pram and give up then that shows lack of character and those people deserve poverty.

    If you feel an employer is this way then no one is forcing you to stay.
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    (Original post by Jebedee)
    What you are describing obviously happens but not en masse like you are making it out to be. If you think the existence of nepotism is an excuse to just throw all your toys out of the pram and give up then that shows lack of character and those people deserve poverty.
    If you feel an employer is this way then no one is forcing you to stay.
    You see, you've just taken my point way off kilter, point is you've just said that it exists but the way to avoid it is to move elsewhere or apply for something else, which if you live rurally is often very difficult. I said before it's not an excuse, but the attitude of "and.....that's YOUR problem" is such a terrible attitude, as in, we shouldn't attempt to change the system in any way because it's YOUR fault.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    You see, you've just taken my point way off kilter, point is you've just said that it exists but the way to avoid it is to move elsewhere or apply for something else, which if you live rurally is often very difficult. I said before it's not an excuse, but the attitude of "and.....that's YOUR problem" is such a terrible attitude, as in, we shouldn't attempt to change the system in any way because it's YOUR fault.
    If you live rurally you aren't going to get a great selection of jobs, fact. If you aren't prepared to relocate then you are in no position to complain.
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    (Original post by the bear)
    criminals love being nasty and then playing the victim card so people like you can feel guilty.
    I can't tell if this is satire or not :hmmmm2:
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    So much *sniff* pure bougie ideology in this thread. Almost brings a tear to my eye to see the little randians frolicking with gay abandon
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    (Original post by Thomb)
    Does inherent greed create a criminal class?
    I remember reading about Karl Marx and he said there are two sides to society and the wealthy side (which make up 10% of the population) determine the fate of the poor side and that's why the poor people do more bizzare things like crime out of helplessness and desperation, you should read his publications I reckon you'd like them
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    Well theoretically most crime isn't even committed by the underclass in the western world.... white collar crime is massive, undertaken by the majority and highly widespread and just as damaging.

    Also crime has been around for as long as human civilisation. People get too peeved off at capitalism despite the fact it's generally a realist state of human civilisation, even the soviet union and many communist states remain capitalist when you break them down to a low enough level.
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    (Original post by JavaScriptMaster)
    I remember reading about Karl Marx and he said there are two sides to society and the wealthy side (which make up 10% of the population) determine the fate of the poor side and that's why the poor people do more bizzare things like crime out of helplessness and desperation, you should read his publications I reckon you'd like them
    Karl Marx also seemed to think that the best way to run a country was by distributing everything evenly - he's the most celebrated idiot of all time


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Karl Marx also seemed to think that the best way to run a country was by distributing everything evenly - he's the most celebrated idiot of all time


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    Yea but distributing everything evenly would have been a lot better than the regime at the time, socialism was new and did wonders for the poor people, who made up the majority population
 
 
 
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