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I no longer believe in heaven or hell. Muslim watch

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    (Original post by Scythia)
    There is only accepted interpretation for this matter. It's quite clear
    Yes, arrogant people aren't often open to seeing other views or opinions.

    Well I don't know your full opinions but watching wriggle in frustration due to Zam at one point was quite amusing anyhows

    True.
    I wouldn't expect anything but puerility from you.

    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    You're getting slightly mixed up. Those verses which ISIS take to mean kill and such don't agree with the major scholars including the major tafsir. The Qur'an states it contains both clear and unclear verses (correct me if I'm wrong). The belief in Hell seems quite clear.
    I think we need to hear the infallible and single interpretation held by "normal Muslims" before we can state our position. Thankfully we have an infallible "normal Muslim" in this thread who might be able to help us.
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    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    You what?!!!
    al-Tirmidhi (1456),Abu Dawood (4462)and Ibn Maajah (2561) narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.”. Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.


    This was the hadith Epicurean had trouble with because it wasn't pro homosexuality. Ikrama was involved in the transmission or something I think and it was him who was accused of being Khawarij.
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    Justfedup
    Bro remember God owes you nothing..it doesn't make a difference if your good or bad God will always remain the greatest...rather you should worship and believe because it's the truth and God deserves it for what he has done to you (always blessing in disguise)!!
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    (Original post by PrinceAli)
    The point flew over your head, darn!

    Indeed Prophet Mohammed had Christian friends that is perfectly fine, but can you see the clear contradiction that to Chapter 5 Verse 51. (5:52 was a typo). However, if you take the Quran symbolically the way I believe it should be interpreted then it makes sense.
    There is no contradiction, and the quran is not just cover to cover symbolism.
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    You're getting slightly mixed up. Those verses which ISIS take to mean kill and such don't agree with the major scholars including the major tafsir. The Qur'an states it contains both clear and unclear verses (correct me if I'm wrong). The belief in Hell seems quite clear.
    "Seems quite clear" but to whom? To hundreds of thousands of secular and liberal Muslims it's not. This is because there's a huge contradiction to a loving God (which I believe Allah is), to hell for all eternity because Allah is offended we said the wrong words, drew the wrong pictures or ate at the wrong time. Surely Allah is stronger than that?
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    Wow people actually debating this. You have to try pretty hard to believe in Islam and not Hell (and it still won't work )
    Indeed, much of Islam is based on 'the fact that life is a test' and that life isn't fair, thus to make things fair there's the day of judgement and then after that heaven and hell. I would assume faith would quickly evaporate if you don't believe in heaven/hell, but props to OP if (s)he can actually still follow Islam devoutly without believing in that.
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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    Yes, arrogant people aren't often open to seeing other views or opinions.



    I wouldn't expect anything but puerility from you.
    It's not arrogant in this situation, it's just not living in delusion

    You came in here to bait me so this remark is quite ironic. Look if you can't take a little hit back, don't get involved in the first place. :dontknow:
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    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    There is no contradiction, and the quran is not just cover to cover symbolism.
    But it is, only in the last 300 years due to emerging Wahabbism from Saudi Arabia has a literal interpretation of Islam risen and spread.
    My point is that if you take the Quran literally then there's tons of contradictions. If you take the Quran symbolically then it' makes sense.
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    (Original post by PrinceAli)
    "Seems quite clear" but to whom? To hundreds of thousands of secular and liberal Muslims it's not. This is because there's a huge contradiction to a loving God (which I believe Allah is), to hell for all eternity because Allah is offended we said the wrong words, drew the wrong pictures or ate at the wrong time. Surely Allah is stronger than that?
    Clear to the people of understanding my friend (big scholar bosses that spend decades of their life on Islam).

    Though there is some discussion on whether Hell is eternal or not due to slight linguistic differences, and possible opposing hadith. Though right now, it's believed to be eternal, and it doesn't really matter.

    It's not a contradiction if Allah is All-Just (which he is).

    EDIT: Alright, here's the verse:
    It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding. (3:7)
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    Clear to the people of understanding my friend (big scholar bosses that spend decades of their life on Islam).

    Though there is some discussion on whether Hell is eternal or not due to slight linguistic differences, and possible opposing hadith. Though right now, it's believed to be eternal, and it doesn't really matter.

    It's not a contradiction if Allah is All-Just (which he is).
    Then those big scholars and I have a disagreement and that's fine. I don't mind if you believe in hell but I don't go around saying "YOU DONT BELIEVE IN HELL SO YOU ARE AUTOMATICALLY NOT A MUSLIM" to that I say "You don't chop off heads so you are automatically not a muslim" which is an equally stupid statement to prove a point.
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    (Original post by PrinceAli)
    Then those big scholars and I have a disagreement and that's fine. I don't mind if you believe in hell but I don't go around saying "YOU DONT BELIEVE IN HELL SO YOU ARE AUTOMATICALLY NOT A MUSLIM" to that I say "You don't chop off heads so you are automatically not a muslim" which is an equally stupid statement to prove a point.
    Lol ok fair enough.
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    (Original post by Scythia)
    This was the hadith Epicurean had trouble with because it wasn't pro homosexuality. Ikrama was involved in the transmission or something I think and it was him who was accused of being Khawarij.
    I would expect a guy who states he doesn't read my posts not to know my argument. But yes, feel free to misrepresent my opinions.

    (Original post by Scythia)
    It's not arrogant in this situation, it's just not living in delusion

    You came in here to bait me so this remark is quite ironic. Look if you can't take a little hit back, don't get involved in the first place. :dontknow:
    Lol. I don't think you know what irony is. But think whatever you like.
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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    I would expect a guy who states he doesn't read my posts not to know my argument. But yes, feel free to misrepresent my opinions.



    Lol. I don't think you know what irony is. But think whatever you like.
    Will do.

    It's ok. If I'm wrong about the meaning and failed at the english, I will humbly accept my error. :hat2:
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    Hi
    I would advise you to read some Qura'an and to go to the mosque to guide your heart to Islam, which will connect you to God. Also, remember to have faith in God so that you are able to 'renew' your belief in heaven and hell.
    Good Luck
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    Wow people actually debating this. You have to try pretty hard to believe in Islam and not Hell (and it still won't work )
    A smart guy once showed me this video...

    https://youtu.be/Qj3JrYLYCQ8

    Interesting point, no?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by chemting)
    A smart guy once showed me this video...

    https://youtu.be/Qj3JrYLYCQ8

    Interesting point, no?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Must've been a very smart guy.
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    Must've been a very smart guy.
    I think he was eventually banned from speaking in Saudi because he was a Quranist, and he has said even more controversial things e.g. about not accepting hadith, but I need to confirm this... I found him interesting when I first came across him, but I think his views are fringe
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    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    He is well known to be controversial and denying many foundations in islam.
    No one really knows his true beliefs as he takes from quranist ideas, shia ideas, qadyani ideas, mu'utazila ideas and even some sunni ideas.
    And as he himself describes himself:
    ''I follow no one and everyday I come up with something new(new idea)''
    What a guy :lol:
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    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    He is well known to be controversial and denying many foundations in islam.
    No one really knows his true beliefs as he takes from quranist ideas, shia ideas, qadyani ideas, mu'utazila ideas and even some sunni ideas.
    And as he himself describes himself:
    ''I follow no one and everyday I come up with something new(new idea)''
    May Allah guide him and protect us all from falling down such a route.
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    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    He is well known to be controversial and denying many foundations in islam.
    No one really knows his true beliefs as he takes from quranist ideas, shia ideas, qadyani ideas, mu'utazila ideas and even some sunni ideas.
    And as he himself describes himself:
    ''I follow no one and everyday I come up with something new(new idea)''
    Yeah that's weird. But the stuff he was saying in the video seemed very close to sunni theology.
 
 
 
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