Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    no **** sherlock!
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    Don't even get me started on the cutbacks to research and development if we leave - which will not only slow economic growth, but also the growth of knowledge and scientific progress. It's just a nightmare - I really, really hope we stay.
    A friend of mine's job is seriously at risk because of the referendum, he's a researcher with Microsoft, and they will get rid of his job if the UK leaves the EU.

    The issue that worries me is the conservation implications of leaving. The EU is a major force for international conservation and environmental protection, if we leave the tories will **** things up even further.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Planning our future based on the examples of a tax-haven(Switzerland) and a major raw materials provider in relation to their size(Norway) is foolish at best. Both of these countries also have free movement of peoples as part of their access to the single market, which makes the argument about EU immigration null and void anyway if these are the examples we're meant to follow.

    IMO the Swiss are actually a microcosm of why we should remain, as they're not a nationality in the traditional sense but a collection of French, Germans and Italians working together successfully for their common interests.

    I'm also hoping to take full advantage of free movement and move to one of the Alpine countries in the future.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Maker)
    There is not point having more than on referendum per generation, otherwise the losing side will keep on wanting them and people will get pissed off having to listen to a load of dimwits going on about Brexit all the time and no one would bother turning out to vote and the vote would be irrelevant.

    The only exception is if there is a Brexit and the economy goes down the drain and hundreds of thousands lose their jobs, then people would demand another referendum.
    So many of 100,000 (e.g. 300,000 - 400,000) would lose their job? Do you believe that? (I'm not sure how to interpret that in relation to your own views.)
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The Roast)
    As much as I want us to leave, the reality is that we probably won't.

    It's depressing.
    I feel your pain.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    Yes sadly remain will win, then we will continue to live under the EU superstate for many decades to come
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    Well I'm pleasantly surprised by this thread. I havnt read anything about this on here so this is the only thread I've seen as the people who are for remain actually make me really annoyed.

    I'd thought nearly all students were going to vote remain.

    I must admit I'm truly baffled by the bookies odds . Because most people really do seem to want to leave. And the remain campaign has so clearly been utterly appalling.

    Surely the only people who are going to vote remain are

    1) people with a vested interest eg with a strong possibility of losing their job or people who travel to Europe a lot

    2) left wingers ,which I totally understand because much Eu legislation undermines what a strong Tory government would do edit I mean the EU is clearly a hindrance to strong Tory governments

    3) scaredy cats who apparently are so daft that they truly believe this country can't perform well out of the EU including people who are worried about their children's future which are the biggest danger to leave

    4) people who hate what they perceive as being typical UKippers

    5) The Scots, because they know most of the English are desperate to leave

    Almost 90% of all comments I've seen in various newspaper sites are for leaving and my Polish au pairs are looking more and more haunted by the day ......yet,yet yet you can still get 5-2 at the bookies!?

    If it wasn't for the bookies price I'd be really confident that leave wins. But that price can't be ignored sadly.

    I honestly believe it would be one of the happiest days of my life if we vote leave.
    And I believe so many people feel the same way that it will hopefully at least go very close.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    It'd be a real shame to destroy a progressive, mutually-beneficial union because some nationalists want to wave their cocks around, but I could see it happening. The polls have always been close, and Vote Leave seem to have bottomless pits of money to throw at advertising their cause. They also seem to lack any principles whatsoever, judging by all the lies they've managed to make common belief.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    TSR was convinced Labour and even the Greens would do well at the last election so I for one wouldn't pay any attention to what some left-wing students say.

    Vote Leave.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    The price of food and products WILL rise if we leave. An amicable divorce is really unlikely and we can't just leave the EU but still have nonchallant access to the free market as all the leavers have suggested we will. .
    You can see the future! Wow.

    No-one actually knows despite your seeming certitude. My guess, and of course it is no more than that (just like all the group think economists who were wrong on the ERM, wrong on the Euro, failed to forecast the crash, in fact have got it wrong on ALL the major issues of the last couple of decades) my guess is that there would be a short term hit to sterling, (and the equity and bond markets) but it would stabilise.

    As for your theory that the Germans and French who have huge trade surpluses with us

    (check out Germany the key player in Europe, nearly 90 billion Euros of goods sold to us last year, 90 billion)

    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigu...ublicationFile

    are going to cut off their noses to spite to face, it is possible of course, but highly unlikely.

    We recently saw what happens to the EU (ie Germany) when faced in negotiations with a determined opponent who hold ll the cards, Turkey.

    They fold.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by JordanL_)
    It'd be a real shame to destroy a progressive, mutually-beneficial union
    The EU "progressive"? Are you for real?

    Tell that to the Greeks, suffering under a debt burden they can't sustain which is strangling their economy and all hope for the future Tell that to the Southern European countries suffering sky high unemployment because they joined the failed Eurozone, tell that to refugees, huddling in camps in Greece. Because the Germans invited them in with no plan what to do next.

    As for who is bankrolling who, you do know that that all the big capitalist corporations support the EU, right? That Goldman Sachs is bankrolling Remain?
    J P Morgan came out as part of the propaganda campaign last week too. All the bankers support your side, pretty much.

    The EU is the strong and powerful protecting their interests against the weak, mate.

    What kind of "progressive" are you?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by generallee)
    You can see the future! Wow.

    No-one actually knows despite your seeming certitude. My guess, and of course it is no more than that (just like all the group think economists who were wrong on the ERM, wrong on the Euro, failed to forecast the crash, in fact have got it wrong on ALL the major issues of the last couple of decades) my guess is that there would be a short term hit to sterling, (and the equity and bond markets) but it would stabilise.

    As for your theory that the Germans and French who have huge trade surpluses with us

    (check out Germany the key player in Europe, nearly 90 billion Euros of goods sold to us last year, 90 billion)

    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigu...ublicationFile

    are going to cut off their noses to spite to face, it is possible of course, but highly unlikely.

    We recently saw what happens to the EU (ie Germany) when faced in negotiations with a determined opponent who hold ll the cards, Turkey.

    They fold.
    If nobody actually knows what will happen, then why would you vote to leave?

    Much of the Brexit campaign is based on lies, illicit political agendas and emotion. As I've said before, free trade + membership of a 500-million-strong single market + freedom to travel, live, work in the EU without restrictions + job security + funding for scientific research and development (maybe that last one is only really important to people like me who are pursuing a career in STEM) are infinitely more important to the average Briton's quality of life than ambiguous things like patriotism, taking back control (more like handing control to the wonderful Tories?) and, to some extent, even national identity.

    The reason why Remain will win is that the British aren't foolish enough to believe Gove and Boris Johnson when they say that everything is going to be okay. House prices will fall, food and product prices will go up (don't try to dispute this - it's common sense), inflation will happen, the pound will fall and jobs will be lost. The majority of us don't want to risk this, while simultaneously losing all the privileges of being an EU member state too.

    PS. I'm not trying to attack you and you are obviously entitled to want to leave. I'm just saying.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by generallee)
    The EU "progressive"? Are you for real?

    Tell that to the Greeks, suffering under a debt burden they can't sustain which is strangling their economy and all hope for the future Tell that to the Southern European countries suffering sky high unemployment because they joined the failed Eurozone, tell that to refugees, huddling in camps in Greece. Because the Germans invited them in with no plan what to do next.

    As for who is bankrolling who, you do know that that all the big capitalist corporations support the EU, right? That Goldman Sachs is bankrolling Remain?
    J P Morgan came out as part of the propaganda campaign last week too. All the bankers support your side, pretty much.

    The EU is the strong and powerful protecting their interests against the weak, mate.

    What kind of "progressive" are you?
    We're recovering from a global recession. The current state of Greece is a result of that more than anything to do with the EU.

    Having big banks supporting the cause doesn't mean much when the most-read newspapers in the country are literally owned by Vote Leave. I disagree that it's the strong protecting the interests against the weak. I think if there's any mutual interest between me and Goldman Sachs, it's in a strong economy.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by JordanL_)
    It'd be a real shame to destroy a progressive, mutually-beneficial union .
    In my last post I outlined how the EU is a regressive (undemocratic) organisation in which the strong protect their privilege against the weak.

    You don't see this obviously, but some people, the genuinely weak and oppressed, have greater perception...

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/polit...-a3262881.html
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    If nobody actually knows what will happen, then why would you vote to leave?

    Much of the Brexit campaign is based on lies, illicit political agendas and emotion. As I've said before, free trade + membership of a 500-million-strong single market + freedom to travel, live, work in the EU without restrictions + job security + funding for scientific research and development (maybe that last one is only really important to people like me who are pursuing a career in STEM) are infinitely more important to the average Briton's quality of life than ambiguous things like patriotism, taking back control (more like handing control to the wonderful Tories?) and, to some extent, even national identity.

    The reason why Remain will win is that the British aren't foolish enough to believe Gove and Boris Johnson when they say that everything is going to be okay. House prices will fall, food and product prices will go up (don't try to dispute this - it's common sense), inflation will happen, the pound will fall and jobs will be lost. The majority of us don't want to risk this, while simultaneously losing all the privileges of being an EU member state too.

    PS. I'm not trying to attack you and you are obviously entitled to want to leave. I'm just saying.
    You have just diminished the entire leave campaign, which is very offensive, and you clearly have not been listening to many of the arguments we have put forth.

    Common sense? Tell me, where's the common sense for the food prices one, for example.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    We are going to stay in Europe, because we are too scared our economic climate will decrease in stature but in years to come we will be fine. We will be better in the long run.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by XcitingStuart)
    You have just diminished the entire leave campaign, which is very offensive, and you clearly have not been listening to many of the arguments we have put forth.

    Common sense? Tell me, where's the common sense for the food prices one, for example.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I've tried explaining this so many times but none of you Brexiters are willing to take it in. We leave the EU. We pull out of the single market. Trade decreases. Trade negotiations are exploited. Less investment. Shop prices go up. Inflation. Job losses. The pound falls. So much of our meat, fruit and vegetables is imported from the EU, and because the cost of importing it will increase if we leave, then so will food prices.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    I think we'll stay even though it effectively means Brits as a rule don't give a flying **** about democracy.
    In hindsight the Cold War was a waste, since apparently Europe actually quite likes oligarchy.

    Between the EU, the media and the government itself, the In campaign has done a wonderful job of convincing the middle-classes that leaving the EU means the end of the world, equating a supranational federalist organization with Europe itself.
    Convincing undecideds that to leave the EU is to not only chose the apocalypse, but also to make you a bit of a racist and xenophobe, and you don't want to be seen as one of those do you?

    So we will remain within the undemocratic and struggling-along EU, continuing to not get any consideration by the powers that be, and going down with the EU ship to it's inevitable implosion.

    Still, an In vote is a vote for the status quo, so that'll be however much longer of the same disintegration and scandals until the EU blows up, leaving the member-states worse off than they already are.

    I would have preferred we left sooner, but democracy will have spoken. Choosing the devil we know rather than taking a chance (which is hardly one) for a better future pursuing it with the world at large rather than through the EU's bureaucratic lens.

    I suppose when everything collapses and the dust has settled I'll get the bitter-sweet chance to say "told you so"..
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by generallee)
    are going to cut off their noses to spite to face, it is possible of course, but highly unlikely. .
    Yeh, because Parents always put their children first in a divorce.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by the pro)
    what are the pros of leaving , i don't see any?
    Writing our own laws by duely elected legislators, sovereign freedom to pursue the national interest rather than subsume it to a club that pursue Franco-German policy and fights Britain's attempts to get anything it's own way, stopping the funding stream to the EU that means a net out-flow of British Taxpayer monies to the rest of the EU, subsidising the poorer members ceases, frees up the British government to pursue trade and diplomatic agreements with the rest of the world rather than subsume foreign policy to the EU, enables the UK to negotiate agreements, treaties and so forth with the rest of the EU where the UK can negotiate favourable terms rather than completely obliged to follow EU directives, regain control of our borders so we can opt out of the self-destructive flow of migrants from poorer EU states to richer, so we can pursue our own responses to the migrant crisis, so we can distance ourselves from the economic struggles of the Eurozone, so we can distance ourselves from the impeachment of national sovereignty the EU has perpetrated against member-states at the behest of German policy, etc, so forth.


    I'm obviously already decided, but hope I helped. Look this stuff up. If it's a decision worth making it's one worth researching.

    There's pros and cons to both sides, albeit IMO remain is the weakest of the two by a wide margin.
    Happy voting!
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    What's your favourite Christmas sweets?
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.